Who gave Jesus all authority in Heaven and Earth?

[1robin]

I think it is interesting that you ever realized I call scripture silly. I am silly. I think most people know that. Scripture is very serious. The reason I waste my time on the internet is because I believe all scripture is VERY SERIOUS.
The authority of any scripture, right or wrong, is not itself. Can you believe that?
IF any meaning was changed (you say that is not possible and I say it was changed) and you put yourself under the authority of any scripture which was changed and you obey it, are you obeyingGod still?

Then the God you believe in cannot maintain the integrity of his own revelation and is not worth thinking about. Your God is too small and faulty, you should trade up to mine.

 

[savagewind]

4. If we have an extremely accurate copy of what God revealed (and we most certainly do) then anything or anyone who contradicts the scripture or denies it's authority is in defiance of God and his message.

You should have proof of this and not to say that people with great big credentials have said so. By your saying that you contradict these:Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.

 

[1robin]

@1robin If it was possible some scripture was changed and you trust the changed scripture and you obey it, are you still under the authority of God who breathed scripture?

That is why I find out what kind of scriptural mistakes are out there and which passages are in question. IOW I do not sit around thinking about what might be true. I spend years investigating what is true. After a long time and a lot of effort using proper textual methodology it is possible to have a very good idea concerning scriptural integrity but it takes a lot of work. Maybe you should start doing it for your self.

 

[savagewind]

Then the God you believe in cannot maintain the integrity of his own revelation and is not worth thinking about. Your God is too small and faulty, you should trade up to mine.

Great! LOL. You are revealing yourself.

You say to tell you something only you and God know about you. It has to be super secret. Right?
Nobody but you can God can know it. The reason why is I could very easily get some info about you by paying someone.

I'll play. I hear your feet are small for a guy.

 

[1robin]

You should have proof of this and not to say that people with great big credentials have said so. By your saying that you contradict these:Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.

I can provide you with an avalanche of information about the textual tradition and integrity of the bible's translation but so far the return on my investment of time in your case has not be justifiable. I always give people the benefit of the doubt and try and have more patience than is justified in some cases. I have done so with you and have just about given up. I only have so much time, and I constantly examine a persons responses to see if they are worth spending the little time I do have on. I have not even begun to scratch the surface even concerning the single issue of scriptural authority and have seen no evidence that you are actually even considering what I have provided. Ironically posters who justify the least amount of time on my part are among those who demand the most.

 

[savagewind]

That is why I find out what kind of scriptural mistakes are out there and which passages are in question. IOW I do not sit around thinking about what might be true. I spend years investigating what is true. After a long time and a lot of effort using proper textual methodology it is possible to have a very good idea concerning scriptural integrity but it takes a lot of work. Maybe you should start doing it for your self.

I don't understand with all the work you have done that you still believe Jesus has commanded the making of disciples. The Bible as it is says so. But the Bible copyist changed the word disciple, which was a God breathed VERB, into the word disciple, a noun; added and s to make it plural; and added the verb make.

THEY added to it and YOU obey their mistake. Please explain why you say it is not ok for me to change it, but it was ok for them to change it. Not only do you believe it was ok for them to change it, but you defend their mistake.

 

[savagewind]

I can provide you with an avalanche of information about the textual tradition and integrity of the bible's translation but so far the return on my investment of time in your case has not be justifiable. I always give people the benefit of the doubt and try and have more patience than is justified in some cases. I have done so with you and have just about given up. I only have so much time, and I constantly examine a persons responses to see if they are worth spending the little time I do have on. I have not even begun to scratch the surface even concerning the single issue of scriptural authority and have seen no evidence that you are actually even considering what I have provided. Ironically posters who justify the least amount of time on my part are among those who demand the most.

You see me demanding anything? You ARE funny.

 

[1robin]

Great! LOL. You are revealing yourself.

You say to tell you something only you and God know about you. It has to be super secret. Right?
Nobody but you can God can know it. The reason why is I could very easily get some info about you by paying someone.

I'll play. I hear your feet are small for a guy.

I revealed your God as unworthy for discussion. I also said to tell me something that only I and God would know, but your not paying attention. So as I figured, neither you nor your God can provide a single reason to conclude either of you have anything to earn credibility for your claims. I have pretty much had it. I can't even understand what your saying half the time, and when I can it is wrong and just plain weird. I am leaving shortly, you have at best a post or two after this point to re-establish your credibility. Christ did not waste his time on those who would not listen and instead merely feigned interest in theology. If you want to see an actual competent debater then wait until Voile makes another post to me and I respond. She is knowledgeable and makes thoughtful points, she also pays close attention to what I say and makes very challenging replies. Carrying on any further down the rabbit hole you led this discussion down has about run it course. You can either keep posting in the same vein as you have and I will suspend any further debate with you after that point, or you can review some of the long and meaningful debates I have had in the past, and then make posts that are less weird and more rational. It is up to you, but I am just about done so I hope you can pick up your game or that's it.

 

[savagewind]

YOUR Bible holds THREE changes at Matthew 28:19.

The changes have proved to be enlightening to me so they couldn't have been all bad.

I revealed your God as unworthy for discussion. I also said to tell me something that only I and God would know, but your not paying attention. So as I figured, neither you nor your God can provide a single reason to conclude either of you have anything to earn credibility for your claims. I have pretty much had it. I can't even understand what your saying half the time, and when I can it is wrong and just plain weird. I am leaving shortly, you have at best a post or two after this point to re-establish your credibility. Christ did not waste his time on those who would not listen and instead merely feigned interest in theology. If you want to see an actual competent debater then wait until Voile makes another post to me and I respond. She is knowledgeable and makes thoughtful points, she also pays close attention to what I say and makes very challenging replies. Carrying on any further down the rabbit hole you led this discussion down has about run it course. You can either keep posting in the same vein as you have and I will suspend any further debate with you after that point, or you can review some of the long and meaningful debates I have had in the past, and then make posts that are less weird and more rational. It is up to you, but I am just about done so I hope you can pick up your game or that's it.

I choose that's it.

You choose to ignore the changes at Matthew 28:19 and so now I choose to ignore you.

 

[savagewind]

One more thing, please.

Well they did not accomplish correct grammatical statements. This one is some botched up I can't even figure out what you mean so I can agree not agree. If God is telling you my secrets why doesn't he tell you how to use a sentence properly? Your credibility is suffering.

It seems simple enough, but here I'll help you.

On the other hand, the scriptures as is HAVE accomplished their purpose for me. Was what I wrote.

The scriptures just as they are have accomplished their purpose for me.

Which, by the way, is FREEDOM. John 8:32

 

[savagewind]

By the way, for anyone still listening, Scriptures to me is ONE thing. "All scripture is inspired ......" means to me that they are all to be viewed together, so scriptures "is" is actually somewhat proper to say.

The scriptures are a collection making up ONE THING and I do believe the ONE THING is for ONE PURPOSE. They are for saving the world. John 3:17

 

[savagewind]

For my last hurrah I think I should tell you the truth. @1robin

When you posted that I might say something about you, I saw red curly hair, but I thought, "red curly hair?" and so I posted my next opinion, which was small feet.

Small feet and red curly hair. Might you have ever wanted to be a girl?

 

[Blessed of JEHOVAH]

Well I am glad your not Catholic but if you were it would have explained what you have claimed.

Before our discussion moves on we are going to have to drop back to the beginning and get some fundamentals established before we can build on them.

So lets go back to the argument over the nature of scripture.

I have no way what so ever to know if when you claim God said this or that to you, whether he actually did or your just a cook. So what God tells me or what he tells you is not common ground since I cannot verify what he may have told you, nor can you verify what he might have told me. Personal revelation is not common ground. So if we have a disagreement over what God did, wants, or commands the only possible common ground is scripture. So if you deny the authority of scripture you have eradicated the only thing that we both have access to. So any meaningful discussion must take place upon the written word of God, upon logical laws built upon scripture, and rational conclusions from scripture. That is why I keep trying to get you to start with scripture as a whole and build from that point. You seem unwilling to do so, so I keep trying to explain why any meaningful discussion must begin with the word. Let me make one last attempt.

For the sake of time I am only going to give one or two verses to support my conclusions but there are dozens or even many dozens I can supply for each point made here.

1. Among the qualifications for an author of the bible is for the teachings it includes to be apostolic in nature.
a. Everyone who wrote anything in the bible was directly commissioned to teach in Christ's name.
b. The apostles examined and approved the messages and apostleship of the other apostles.
c. Those writing and their authors have been scrutinized over the last 2000 years in the NT case more so than any other work in human history and they
have withstood withering critical analysis.
d. Nothing you or I claim God told us has been examined in the same way. So when you and I do not agree we must appeal to scripture to determine who
is right. That is one of the most essential and necessary purposes of God's written revelation.
e. So the official doctrine of the body of Christ or his church (the brotherhood of all believers) is to be based on the cornerstone of the written word.

New International Version
Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

Matthew 4:1-11New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness
4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” 4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.

You said your in Jesus now and above you have what Jesus said, so you should willingly abide by it.

Here is an entire paper on solo scriptoria: http://www.bible.ca/sola-scriptura-proof-texts.htm

2. So whatever you say, it either confirms or contradicts scripture. Lets see what God says about this.
a. New International Version But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be
under God's curse!
b. If anyone (even an Angel) teaches anything contradictory to scripture they are cursed. So when you rule out the authority of scriptures you are
teaching something contradictory and different than those verses I supplied in point 1. above.
c. Not only are you contradicting those verses above and dozens just like them you are denying their authority outright.

3. You mentioned a while back the use of logic and then only made subjective conclusions. Well let me lay out an absolute of logic.
a. The law of not contradiction states that a in not equal to a'. This law cannot possibly be incorrect under any circumstance yet this is a law you attempt to
defy in your arguments.
b. In simple terms the law means that two contradictory claims to truth cannot possibly both be correct in the same way at the same time.
c. You have said that scripture lacks authority and then made arguments giving scripture as the authority demonstrating those claims.
Contradictory therefore one or both claims are untrue.
e. You have used your own claims to personal revelation yet you deny personal revelation for others who have far greater credentials. Contradictory
therefore one or both claims are untrue.
f. You mentioned Mormonism which if you agree to their doctrines you have adopted contradictions again. The Mormon cult includes accepts
teachings which contradicts biblical doctrines which it also affirms. Examples....Mormonism claims baptism for the dead is Godly, we become God's after
death, and that a pathetic translation of the Egyptian book of the dead is actually revelation, ect.... all of which contradict the bible. Again a contradictory
position and therefore one or all of these claims must be untrue.
g. You deny Christ's divinity which is emphatically affirmed in the bible, yet in other instances you accept scripture. Contradictory again and therefore
some or all of what you have said must be false.



My position is perfectly consistent. My authority is the scripture, all my personal revelation is consistent with that authority. A seamless whole.

Your position is contradictory to its self and to scriptural authority.

Unless you can first argue from the common ground of scripture (who's credentials, credentials, and integrity infinitely exceeds your own) there exists no foundation by which any doctrinal claims can be resolved. That is a primary intended purpose of scripture and it performs that roll to perfection. So until you can do so I will not carry on discussions until a foundation for common ground is adopted by you. Currently, I must either believe you when you make claims that contradict everything I am aware of on one hand, or I must believe Christ, the apostles, the early Church fathers, 2000 years of mainstream scholarly conclusions, logical and rational methodology, and my own personal experience which are all consistent with each other. For now it is easy to see who I should go with.

I don't know who your commenting to but i didn't even finish it because I haven't written anyone claiming anything without backing it up with scripture. If i ever said that Jehovah God said anything to me it was only that he revealed scripture to me through holy spirit.

 

[Blessed of JEHOVAH]

Amen. This isn't one of those "no, I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once" kind of moments.

I'm sorry i"m not even sure you were commenting to me.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The real definition of disciple is "learner". In the context of Matthew 28:19 it means, "learning from Christ". Agree? The Bible and you have changed its meaning. Now it means to learn from Christ's disciples.

I think you are acting stupid. You quote me and change what I said and what I said is right there. We should be among the nations AS LEARNERS OF THE CHRIST. What? Can it get any simpler?

I can say that other people who have come before us HAVE ADDED TO IT.
The proof is right there in front of everyone's eyes but they (and you) refuse to see it.

OK?

An example? Matthew 28:19 was changed from disciple nations (which to me means to teach people like Jesus would do) to MAKE disciples of nations. I KNOW, KNOW, KNOW that it is wrong to read "make" there.

I believe that God has given me the go on that.

Why won't anyone believe me?

Did God change His mind about what "disciple" means?

Maybe those posts of yours will answer that question!

 

[savagewind]

Did God change His mind about what "disciple" means?

Maybe those posts of yours will answer that question!

I am not surprised you have nothing to build another up with. Just stupid stuff, that seems to look smart to you, to tear down. Is it the tearing down time according to what you have read in scripture?

Are you refusing the definition that a disciple is someone who is taught by Christ Jesus and in turn teaches others like Jesus would if he was still a human man here with us?

Are you stuck on the opinion that disciple the verb (it was a verb) means to make disciples?
According to the Bible, Jesus wants us to believe that a disciple isn't a person who keeps learning from him, but is a person who makes other people disciples.

Can't you possibly see that you have made Matthew 28:19 about a hall with mirrors on either side reflecting each other?

What does discipline mean? YOU teach that it means to make more disciples and then what do they do? They make more disciples. And them? More disciples.

According to your opinion, it seems to me that nobody is being told to learn from Jesus, which is obviously the goal.

YOUR goal is to make a disciple like you. What should be the goal of any disciple you make?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I am not surprised you have nothing to build another up with. Just stupid stuff, that seems to look smart to you, to tear down. Is it the tearing down time according to what you have read in scripture?

Are you refusing the definition that a disciple is someone who is taught by Christ Jesus and in turn teaches others like Jesus would if he was still a human man here with us?

Are you stuck on the opinion that disciple the verb (it was a verb) means to make disciples?
According to the Bible, Jesus wants us to believe that a disciple isn't a person who keeps learning from him, but is a person who makes other people disciples.

Can't you possibly see that you have made Matthew 28:19 about a hall with mirrors on either side reflecting each other?

What does discipline mean? YOU teach that it means to make more disciples and then what do they do? They make more disciples. And them? More disciples.

According to your opinion, it seems to me that nobody is being told to learn from Jesus, which is obviously the goal.

YOUR goal is to make a disciple like you. What should be the goal of any disciple you make?

I don't "teach" anything or anyone, I just post what the Spirit tells me to post!

 

[savagewind]

I don't "teach" anything or anyone, I just post what the Spirit tells me to post!

Yes, and you know that every person has a spirit . Psalms 146:4

 

[savagewind]

I don't "teach" anything or anyone, I just post what the Spirit tells me to post!

The Spirit TELLS you to post? "You should have that looked at" LOL

So you are hearing things?

Just so you know, nothing (I was going to say nobody) is telling me anything, though it may seem to some that I think so. I am sorry about that. I post what I hear from The Spirit Of Truth because I want to. I do not know if HE wants me to.......but you do. You seem to think that the Spirit wants you to post. I am assuming that if someone tells you to do something like you say it tells you to post, it is because it WANTS you to post.

Am I right so far?

 

[savagewind]

OMG I hear (the words in my brain - God knows where they are coming from) that some people think that I post what a different spirit tells me to.

I think I'll just take this opportunity to say, thanks for being funny, you guys.