Who Has the truth? Who Will Bring World Peace?

[Deeje]

From the other thread....

Sorry Adrian...at the risk of going off topic again (and what topic doesn't?) I will respond here so as not to get in trouble with the OP again.....

Perhaps the Gospel of Matthew is the most Hebrew of the four Gospels and has some of the strongest language condemning the attitudes and behaviours of the Pharisees. However Christ's condemnation of the Pharisees doesn't give us personally, or the JW denomination as a whole, the right to condemn anyone let alone every group that isn't JW.

I never said we did Adrian. You forget that in our ministry, we speak to people of all faiths every day.....we call on them for the same reason that Jesus sent his disciples out....to offer them a message of hope in a seemingly hopeless world. People are so sick of the religious hypocrisy and confusion. We call to give them an opportunity to hear what we believe is the real Christian message and to make sense of this awful world we live in. They can then compare it to what they have been taught and make their own decisions. As someone who was once a part of Christendom, I can tell my own story. We are not out to convert the world.....no one can come to Jesus unless they are drawn by the Father anyway. (John 6:44) So we leave that to him. We are the messengers who can then become teachers.

Jesus called out the religious leaders of Judaism for their corrupted misapplication of scripture.....we do too.
If people don't believe us, well then as Jesus said, we are to "shake the dust off our feet" and move on. But so many people are responding to our message...its very heartening. They are not joining a religion, but learning the truth about so many things. They want to please God and therefore want to become part of his global spiritual family.

We may not agree about too much but I hope we agree we have the right to practice our faith. It also provides an opportunity for faith adherents to get to know people from other faith groups and learn about their beliefs. In that sense interfaith isn't all that different to the mission of religious forum.

Absolutely! Everyone has the right of choice as free willed beings. But as Paul said....

Romans 10:13-15....
"For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?..."

Who are sending out preachers into "all the inhabited earth" with the good news of God's Kingdom? (Matthew 24:14).....none of Christendom's churches have ever come to me with the good news about anything.
LDS used to call, but they do not come to my town anymore. I had some nice discussions with them.

Once again interfaith is not specifically about worshipping together, although one of our annual events is prayers for world peace.

Prayers for world peace are useless unless that peace comes about by the introduction of God's Kingdom.
Whose prayers is God listening to? (Isaiah 1:15) How much blood is on the hands of those praying?

To me "interfaith" is sharing in religious fellowship with others who do not share your beliefs....and who may very well weaken them.

According to the apostle John, those who tried to bring in ideas from outside of Christianity were to be avoided......

"Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." (2 John 9-11)

 

[Deeje]

And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
1 Peter 4:8-9

1 Peter 4:8-9 (HCSB)...."Above all, maintain an intense love for each other, since love covers a multitude of sins. 9 Be hospitable to one another without complaining."

The word translated "charity" is "agape" and is more correctly rendered "love".

"Agape" is also used at John 15:13...a well known quote of jesus....."No one has greater love [agape] than this, that someone would lay down his life for his friends."

I agree that Christianity has become corrupt and filled with disunity and hatred. Only the Returned Christ can provide the remedy as Christ provided the remedy to corruption and disunity within Judaism centuries ago. You are waiting whereas the Baha'is are applying the remedy.

Sorry, but it seems to me as if Baha'is are falling down on the job, if that is the case. What "remedy" are you applying in a world that gets more divided and disunited by the day?
Where is the promised peace that God's kingdom was to bring with his return? Where is the dispatching of the wicked? (Matthew 25:31-46) God's Kingdom "comes" by destroying all failed human rulership...not by employing it. (Daniel 2:44) World peace will never be achieved by humans.

We are waiting for the (genuine) "returned Christ" because he will bring the rulership of God's Kingdom to this earth, not by human means but by means of God's spirit. How can you not see human governments collapsing?
If they are not financially bankrupt then they are morally bankrupt. Corruption is everywhere. Where are Baha'i's in all of this?

Much of what we inevitably do is interfaith these days. It is an inevitably that we will associate in some measure with people who have beliefs and views very different from our own. Our conversation on this thread is interfaith.

Mixing with people of other faiths is inevitable in a world that is so religiously divided....but having interfaith fellowship is not what we seek. We can love people without loving their religion.

The promotion of peace and tolerance in the world is the responsibility of us all though. Even the JWs are playing their part whether or not you acknowledge it.

Promoting peace is what Jesus did...he even went as far as telling his disciples that they must 'love their enemies and to pray for those who persecute them'. In times of war we get to see who can uphold the teachings of the Christ and who will kill their enemies at the command of men out of nationalistic pride? (Acts 5:29)

In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said...."Happy are the peacemakers, since they will be called sons of God."

A "peacemaker" is not to be confused with a "peacekeeper". This world only knows peace as a brief absence of war. They only know 'peacekeepers' carrying weapons. None are actually peacemakers.

"Peacemakers" need no weapons because they will not take part in human conflicts. Their peace comes from within and spreads out to others...a most wonderful and contagious 'infection'.

I always remember the Vietnam anti-war slogan....."what would happen if everyone was invited to a war and nobody came?" How sad is it that we can't all put down our weapons and live in peace? If we could all do that then Jesus would not have to judge the world so harshly....but as he said..."just as the days of Noah"...and here we are.

 

[Remté]

No one and nothing will bring a so called world peace.

 

[Spirit of Light]

From the other thread....

Sorry Adrian...at the risk of going off topic again (and what topic doesn't?) I will respond here so as not to get in trouble with the OP again.....



I never said we did Adrian. You forget that in our ministry, we speak to people of all faiths every day.....we call on them for the same reason that Jesus sent his disciples out....to offer them a message of hope in a seemingly hopeless world. People are so sick of the religious hypocrisy and confusion. We call to give them an opportunity to hear what we believe is the real Christian message and to make sense of this awful world we live in. They can then compare it to what they have been taught and make their own decisions. As someone who was once a part of Christendom, I can tell my own story. We are not out to convert the world.....no one can come to Jesus unless they are drawn by the Father anyway. (John 6:44) So we leave that to him. We are the messengers who can then become teachers.

Jesus called out the religious leaders of Judaism for their corrupted misapplication of scripture.....we do too.
If people don't believe us, well then as Jesus said, we are to "shake the dust off our feet" and move on. But so many people are responding to our message...its very heartening. They are not joining a religion, but learning the truth about so many things. They want to please God and therefore want to become part of his global spiritual family.



Absolutely! Everyone has the right of choice as free willed beings. But as Paul said....

Romans 10:13-15....
"For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?..."

Who are sending out preachers into "all the inhabited earth" with the good news of God's Kingdom? (Matthew 24:14).....none of Christendom's churches have ever come to me with the good news about anything.
LDS used to call, but they do not come to my town anymore. I had some nice discussions with them.



Prayers for world peace are useless unless that peace comes about by the introduction of God's Kingdom.
Whose prayers is God listening to? (Isaiah 1:15) How much blood is on the hands of those praying?

To me "interfaith" is sharing in religious fellowship with others who do not share your beliefs....and who may very well weaken them.

According to the apostle John, those who tried to bring in ideas from outside of Christianity were to be avoided......

"Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." (2 John 9-11)

A lot of wise words in this tread (IMO)

 

[JJ50]

Religion, Christianity and Islam in particular, have often been the instigator of wars, not peace,

 

[Remté]

Religion, Christianity and Islam in particular, have often been the instigator of wars, not peace,

People have been instigators.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Who has the truth? We all do to some extent. We both belong to Faith communities who believe in the God of Abraham, see the Bible as the Word of God and follow the Techings of Christ.

In regards the future, both our faiths believe that peace will be established on earth. Obviously we have very different visions about how that will come about as well as our role as individuals and what our respective faith communities have to offer.

For Baha'is world peace is not only posible but inevitable. Whether it comes about through cooperation or unimaginable horrors is a choice before humanity. We are part of humanity so our attitudes and actions can contribute towards peace or retard its progress.

I offer for your consideration a list of positive social changes since the nineteenth century that are essential to a peaceful world.

1/ All peoples are increasingly seen as equal regardless of race, ethnicity, nationality or religious affiliation.

2/ Universal education has been progressively implemented throughout the globe.

3/ The equality of men and women has been firmly established at most levels of society.

4/ There are unprecedented levels of international cooperation and agencies for socioeconomic development.

5/ Democratic institutions have become the preferred model of government at a local and national level.

6/ Slavery has largely been abolished.

These are all Teachings of the Baha'i Faith. Of course its everyone that's on board to some extent. The Baha'i Faith is a relatively small community of about 5 - 10 million worldwide.

What are the consequences for the world?

1/ The amount of deaths due to international conflict has dramatically decreased in the twenty-first century.

2/ People are living longer and are more prosperous.

3/ Levels of education have increased greatly.

There are many problems in the world of course, but on the whole humanity appears to be heading in the right direction.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

we speak to people of all faiths every day.....we call on them for the same reason that Jesus sent his disciples out....to offer them a message of hope in a seemingly hopeless world.

this awful world we live in.

Who Has the truth? Who Will Bring World Peace?

Who has the truth? Certainly not the one who can't find anything constructive to say about humanity or life on earth. Such words.ring hollow to me. My world is not hopeless or awful. I know from personal experience and from having known thousands of people that that is not the truth.

Who will bring world peace? Nobody. But who will inch us closer to it by making this a better world? Certainly not those who preach despair and the need for a rescue from life.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Who has the truth? Certainly not the one who can't find anything constructive to say about humanity or life on earth. Such words.ring hollow to me. My world is not hopeless or awful. I know from personal experience and from having known thousands of people that that is not the truth.

Who will bring world peace? Nobody. But who will inch us closer to it by making this a better world? Certainly not those who preach despair and the need for a rescue from life.

Very interesting thoughts. As you've noticed, the JWs focus on negativity in order to promote their ideas. They seek those who are looking for an easy answer and claim that only they can provide that answer. They appeal to those who are undergoing some sort of crisis and they claim that, by joining their group, the person can learn how to have ALL their problems whisked away and they will, if they follow all the rules, enter into Paradise where they will consume giant fruit, pet lions, and hobnob with the patriarchs of old.

Sadly, though, if a person does happen to get hooked, but later realizes that they have been hoodwinked, they will be cast out and shunned--losing all their fake friends and possibly their families.

Very dangerous group that most definitely does not have the "truth."

 

[JJ50]

People have been instigators.

In the name of religion.

 

[JJ50]

Very interesting thoughts. As you've noticed, the JWs focus on negativity in order to promote their ideas. They seek those who are looking for an easy answer and claim that only they can provide that answer. They appeal to those who are undergoing some sort of crisis and they claim that, by joining their group, the person can learn how to have ALL their problems whisked away and they will, if they follow all the rules, enter into Paradise where they will consume giant fruit, pet lions, and hobnob with the patriarchs of old.

Sadly, though, if a person does happen to get hooked, but later realizes that they have been hoodwinked, they will be cast out and shunned--losing all their fake friends and possibly their families.

Very dangerous group that most definitely does not have the "truth."

No one has the elusive 'truth', especially not religious people. Science might discover it one day, though.

 

[Remté]

In the name of religion.

Wha does that even mean?

 

[Remté]

No one has the elusive 'truth', especially not religious people. Science might discover it one day, though.

Why, there are religious scientists. Do you think their intellectual capabilities are lesser than those of atheists?

 

[JJ50]

Why, there are religious scientists. Do you think their intellectual capabilities are lesser than those of atheists?

They appear to compartmentalise their brains so logic doesn't impinge on their religion.

 

[Jedster]

No one and nothing will bring a so called world peace.

If everyone individually brought themselves to a state of real inner peace, then the world would be peaceful.

ETA the probability of this is close to zero, so you are probably right.

 

[Shantanu]

No one and nothing will bring a so called world peace.

The struggle for existence means that humans are in conflict with one another.

 

[Deeje]

No one and nothing will bring a so called world peace.

If you believe in God, then you can't assume that this life is the one he planned for us?
If he did, then he is not much of a God.

If the first humans had simply obeyed that one simple command in the beginning, then none of the suffering we have gone through at our own hands would have ever occurred.

The need for world peace has never been more necessary...and we humans did this to ourselves, believing that we didn't need the guidance of our Creator. We have proven the exact opposite.

People have been instigators.

People have used their religion as an excuse to murder others. To my way of thinking, if people accept the teachings of Jesus Christ, (whatever faith they profess) they cannot raise a weapon to another soul, nor take the lives of innocent people as is common in modern warfare. Under the Laws of God, every innocent life was to be accounted for. How much innocent blood is on the hands of those who profess belief in God? (Isaiah 1:15) They all pray, but God is not listening.

Why, there are religious scientists. Do you think their intellectual capabilities are lesser than those of atheists?

Good question! Many seem to equate religious belief with a lack of intellectual capacity....but it is clear that science operates on "belief" and "faith" just as much as religious people do. They must, because so much of what they accept as truth is based on trust (faith) in the words of men, not on scientifically provable facts. Isn't that what they accuse Bible believers of doing? Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me....

 

[Deeje]

Who has the truth? We all do to some extent. We both belong to Faith communities who believe in the God of Abraham, see the Bible as the Word of God and follow the Techings of Christ.

That I guess, is a matter of interpretation. If Bahai's are not Christians and they are not Muslims....then what are they?

Whose writings do they accept? And do they adhere to all of them or only select some that they can accommodate within their own framework? This is what I find the most difficult thing to understand about your faith. You try to meld all faiths into one universal religion without adhering to any of them fully.

In regards the future, both our faiths believe that peace will be established on earth. Obviously we have very different visions about how that will come about as well as our role as individuals and what our respective faith communities have to offer.

The big difference is definitely in how that "peace" will be brought about. Your faith sees man bringing it about through political means, but the Bible says that will never happen. Through his prophet Daniel, God said concerning the rulers of our day....

"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever". (Daniel 2:44)

Failed human rulership is what God's Kingdom will "crush" and replace. Anyone clinging to them will go down with them. That is why Jesus told us to be no part of this world ruled by the devil (whom I know you don't acknowledge) (John 18:36; 1 John 5:19) Without the devil, the Bible's entire narrative falls apart. It is meaningless and nothing makes sense.

For Baha'is world peace is not only posible but inevitable. Whether it comes about through cooperation or unimaginable horrors is a choice before humanity. We are part of humanity so our attitudes and actions can contribute towards peace or retard its progress.

Nothing man has done to date has ever addressed the growing problems that this world is facing. Never before in human history has the human race possessed the means to destroy this earth, yet 2,000 years ago John was inspired to foretell that ability.

"But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” (Revelation 11:18)

It is whilst humans are in the throes of ruining the earth that God intervenes. It is at a time of great chaos, but with only divine intervention as its solution.This is what the Bible clearly states, so you have to do a lot of ignoring of scripture to adhere to a faith that does not acknowledge this.

I offer for your consideration a list of positive social changes since the nineteenth century that are essential to a peaceful world.

1/ All peoples are increasingly seen as equal regardless of race, ethnicity, nationality or religious affiliation.

2/ Universal education has been progressively implemented throughout the globe.

3/ The equality of men and women has been firmly established at most levels of society.

4/ There are unprecedented levels of international cooperation and agencies for socioeconomic development.

5/ Democratic institutions have become the preferred model of government at a local and national level.

6/ Slavery has largely been abolished.

These are all Teachings of the Baha'i Faith. Of course its everyone that's on board to some extent. The Baha'i Faith is a relatively small community of about 5 - 10 million worldwide.

What are the consequences for the world?

1/ The amount of deaths due to international conflict has dramatically decreased in the twenty-first century.

2/ People are living longer and are more prosperous.

3/ Levels of education have increased greatly.

There are many problems in the world of course, but on the whole humanity appears to be heading in the right direction.

If I step back and realize that the doomsday clock is set at 2 minutes to midnight, then those progressive changes you mentioned, don't really amount to a hill of beans. A nuclear exchange could wipe out the world's population in a matter of hours.

"Humanity now faces two simultaneous existential threats, either of which would be cause for extreme concern and immediate attention. These major threats—nuclear weapons and climate change—were exacerbated this past year by the increased use of information warfare to undermine democracy around the world, amplifying risk from these and other threats and putting the future of civilization in extraordinary danger.

There is nothing normal about the complex and frightening reality just described."

Doomsday Clock - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

The Revelation tells us that these days would become progressively more difficult, but for those who stick with Jesus and obey his God and Father, things will all come full circle. As Daniel said...the Kingdom will not "come" peacefully....it will be forced on the unfaithful when God's wrath can no longer be contained. His patience will run out.

But the outcome for those who remained faithful despite all attempts to subvert their faith, is recorded in Revelation 21:2-4....where Christ and his "bride" are seen bringing the benefits of Kingdom rule to redeemed humanity.

"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

What an awesome result to look forward to!

 

[RedhorseWoman]

I



People have used their religion as an excuse to murder others. To my way of thinking, if people accept the teachings of Jesus Christ, (whatever faith they profess) they cannot raise a weapon to another soul, nor take the lives of innocent people as is common in modern warfare. Under the Laws of God, every innocent life was to be accounted for. How much innocent blood is on the hands of those who profess belief in God? (Isaiah 1:15) They all pray, but God is not listening.

Seriously, Deeje, you shouldn't try to use this argument to either support the JWs or to denigrate those of other religions. Keep in mind that the JWs have caused many needless deaths, due both to their invalid teachings, as well as their harsh judicial policies.

How many innocent lives have been lost to suicide because of the JW shunning policies? I personally know of at least one of these victims. How many innocent lives have been lost because of the teachings of the Watchtower Society? The JW religion is as bloodguilty as any of the religions they love to malign, and their bloodguilt is probably worse than most because the cause of those innocent deaths was purely due to religious dogma, whereas those who are in the military give their lives so that the freedom of others (like yourself) can be protected. Which is worse, Deeje? Think about it. Can you?

Good question! Many seem to equate religious belief with a lack of intellectual capacity....but it is clear that science operates on "belief" and "faith" just as much as religious people do. They must, because so much of what they accept as truth is based on trust (faith) in the words of men, not on scientifically provable facts. Isn't that what they accuse Bible believers of doing? Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me....

The difference is that religious people tend to discard any provable facts that come their way if those facts don't support what they choose to belief. Science, however, continually seeks to prove their theories with actual facts.

 

[Deeje]

If everyone individually brought themselves to a state of real inner peace, then the world would be peaceful.

Absolutely! Imagine if all the soldiers put down their weapons and helped people to live rather than seeking more efficient ways to kill? Imagine if race or religion did not cause hatred? All men are created equal, but sadly not all live as equals. Hatreds are passed down from one generation to another.

Imagine if the greedy drug companies used their billions of dollars in profit to provide medicine for the sick and easily digestible protein biscuits fortified with vitamins and minerals as food for the starving people of this world?

Imagine governments spending their money making sure that no one is homeless, or that no child goes without an education or anything else, because of poverty.

Imagine people growing their own food on their own land without all the poisonous chemicals that are presently used on food crops? This poison finds its way into the waterways and into the food fed to animals that we consume. And we wonder why everyone is sick? Sick people are not happy.

Imagine if people all got together to rid the world of plastic and all the other polluting things that humans have invented at the expense of the planet and its myriads of other inhabitants.....?

What is the catalyst for that kind of change...? LOVE! But Jesus foretold that the love of humans, one for another would grow cold. Its so obvious now, compared to times past when people had a real sense of community and cared about their neighbors......not anymore.

ETA the probability of this is close to zero, so you are probably right.

By man?......you are absolutely correct. But by the Creator....? He has already promised the solution long ago.

I believe that we are very close now to the final judgment of this earth.....there are only "sheep and goats" in this world.....so the separation will not be difficult for Jesus. (Matthew 25:31-33) The difference will be obvious.