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Who is God Almighty?
- Thread starter JehovahIsGodAlmighty
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Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Jesus is dead. It has been about 2000 years since he died. Therefore, he could not be God. Unless a Hellenistic god according to Mat. 1:18. Since he was a Jew, the Hellenistic option is out of question.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
How could he be dead when he was resurrected to die no more? - and also note he would not only be the son, but also the everlasting Father and there would be no end to his kingdom. Isaiah 9:6-7
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
He was not. There was no eyewitness of his resurrection. Besides, Jesus was a loyal Jew who came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. The Prophets say that, once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. Read Psalms 49:12,20; II Samuel 12:23; Job 7:9; Isaiah 26:14; etc. Paul himself confessed to his disciple Timothy that Jesus resurrected according to his - Paul's gospel. (II Timothy 2:8) It means that there was another gospel being preached at the time in whose agenda, the idea of Jesus' resurrection was not cogitated. Isaiah 9:6,7 has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. It was a prophecy about how the Gentiles of the Galilee welcomed the Jews returning from their exile in Babylon.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
He was resurrected, and the eyewitnesses were Peter, John, and many others. Many wrote about it in the NT.
You must have misunderstood what the prophets meant in the verses you referenced. (Just because David's child wasn't going to live at the time doesn't mean there would be no resurrection.)
It is clear from Job 19:25-27 that he believed in the resurrection. He said For I know my redeemer liveth, and he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth. And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another: though my reins be consumed within me.
Also Job 14:14-15 says - If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shall call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. (Job clearly believed in the resurrection.)
Daniel 12:13 - But go thou thy way till the end: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Please explain how the son in Isaiah 9:6 was also the everlasting Father based on what you said the verse means.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
To write about something is no evidence of being an eyewitness. Besides, Luke spoke of Peter and John as two ignorant and illiterate guys. Illiterate people do not write books. (Acts 4:13)
You are implying that King David made a stupid decision but he did not. He knew from Psalms 49:12,20 that once dead, the grave would be his eternal home.
Job knew that in his flesh he would see God because he trusted that HaShem would cure him of his skin disease and he would return to his relation with God as it was before he got sick.
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Coder
Active Member
Belief that Jesus is God means that everything is under God's feet, so what other meaning does this have except to say that Christians simply have another name that they use for God?
Coder
Active Member
And then we have centuries of theology insisting that Jesus is not the Father.
Well it goes God put everything under Jesus feet, himself excluded. So "God the Father" is Jesus' God and Father, but Jesus is our God and Father.
Coder
Active Member
Again (in Nicene Christian belief): How can He be excluded? He is the same God.
Apparently he is not the same God. Jesus would seem to be a "chip off the old block" as they say.
Coder
Active Member
You get a gold star for being a 24-carat Trinitarian.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Jehovah (/dʒᵻˈhoʊvə/ jə-hoh-və) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה, onevocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible.
The consensus among scholars is that the historical vocalization of the Tetragrammaton at the time of the redaction of the Torah (6th century BCE) is most likely Yahweh. The historical vocalization was lost because in Second Temple Judaism, during the 3rd to 2nd centuries BCE, the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton came to be avoided, being substituted with Adonai ("my Lord"). The Hebrew vowel points of Adonai were added to the Tetragrammaton by theMasoretes, and the resulting form was transliterated around the 12th century asYehowah.[1] The derived forms Iehouah and Jehovah first appeared in the 16th century.
"Jehovah" was popularized in the English-speaking world by William Tyndale and other pioneer English Protestant translations such as the Geneva Bible and the King James Version.[2] It is still used in some translations, such as the New World Translation, the American Standard Version, and Young's Literal Translation, but it is does not appear in most mainstream English translations, as the terms "Lord" or "LORD": used instead, generally indicating that the corresponding Hebrew is Yahweh or YHWH.[3][4]:5
Source: Jehovah - Wikipedia
Are you aware that Jehovah is just Latinization and Tetragrammaton? And that the word Jehovah but it is does not appear in most mainstream English translations, as the terms "Lord" or "LORD": used instead?
On this juncture there are many names used by Judaism about God but Jehovah isn't one of them? Names of God in Judaism - Wikipedia
And that the word Jehovah was only concocted by William Tyndale and other pioneer English Protestant translations?
I call the only true God - the Father (John 17:1,3)
Very simple and concise not some latinized tetragrammaton.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
But there is a resurrection in:
Daniel 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
And now using the New Testament this is read:
Revelation 1:5 New International Version (NIV)
and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
@Ben Avraham - when do you think your Messiah would come? Its kinda late isn't it? Still waiting for someone new?
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Prove to us that Peter, John and many others were present when Jesus resurrected. If you can't, it is because you do not understand what is to be an eyewitness. Regarding Job, he knew he would recover of his malady and would enjoy the presence of the Lord as he used to be before he got sick. (Job 7:9; 10:25; 14:20) I am sure you are trying to prove contradictions in the Tanach. You won't succeed if you are discussing it with a Jew.
And last but not least, Daniel. "Go thou thy way till the end of the exile for thou shall rest from thy slavery. To sleep in the dust of the earth is to be cut off from the Land of the Living and be assigned to graves among the nations in exile. (Isaiah 53:8,9) The end of the exile is to awake and return to the Land of Israel. (Ezekiel 37:12) Regarding Isaiah 9:6 it was a prophecy of Isaiah regarding the Gentiles in Galilee welcoming the Jews in return from Babylon. Just like any other pagan at that time, they would attribute divinity to the owners of the Land of Israel aka the Jews.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
No, there is no resurrection. Bodily resurrection is a Hellenistic doctrine adopted by Christianity through Paul if you read II Timothy 2:8. Prophetically, the multitudes that sleep in the dust of the earth are the Jews in exile if you read Isaiah 53:8,9. When the Jews are forced into exile, it is as if they have been cut off from the land of the living and graves are assigned to them among the nations. At the end of the exile, the Lord opens up those graves and brings them back to the Land of Israel. (Ezekiel 37:12) To awake at the end of the exile is to listen to the Aliyah call to return. To everlasting life is an embellishment to making Aliyah. To everlasting shame is to decide to remain in the Diaspora as an exiled for life.
Do you have an eyewitness for the resurrection of Jesus? If you do, please, let me know. Besides, Jesus was never a king in Israel or anywhere else in the world. No History for that claim. Jesus could not have freed us from our sins because the Prophets have taught that no one can die for the sins of another. (Ezekiel 18:4, 20; Jeremiah 31:30) We have returned to the Land of Israel haven't we? So, the Messiah has already come. Read Habakkuk 3:13. "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel, the Son of God if you read Exodus 4:22,23. The Messiah does not have to wait for another Messiah. BTW, The real Messiah cannot be an individual; the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
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MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Checking the verses you threw and I found them wanting. You wrote: Prophetically, the multitudes that sleep in the dust of the earth are the Jews in exile if you read Isaiah 53:8,9.
Isaiah 53:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
That is the Lord Jesus Christ, friend!
Jesus was arrested - he was taken away
His apostles was scattered and nobody defended him - yet who of his generation protested?
Jesus died - he was cut off from the land of the living
Jesus was crucified - by the Jews - for the transgressions of my people he was punished
Matthew 27:57-60 As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away.
- He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death
You gave a verse about Jesus Christ! That's great and I have to see the rest of your verses.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Just want to say a few things if I may.
First one, "Jehovah". That is a bad translation of our Creator. I really dont know where that came from, but it's not scriptural. There are no "J's" in the org. Hebrew. Yahweh is a better translation. Arch's have found stone tablets from other countries that are thousands of years old, it talks about the God of the Israelites, YHWH or Yahweh. Jahovah is only in a few bible, not all. That was put in there by the translators in the middle ages around 1611ish... . It is a more latinized word. The newer bibles dont use that word, just like the word "satan". Satan is an untranslated Hebrew, most bibles now have the correct meaning, "adversary".
Jesus is not the Almighty God. Trinity and God the Son is NOT in our bibles and total degrades our Creator. Scripture tells us that Jesus was like us. And he had to be, he had to "conquer' sin or sin in the flesh. Which he did by God's help. Scripture also tells us that God is the God AND father of Jesus. Jesus is not God and no co-equal with the Father. Bible tells us that he was born. He was in God's plan and purpose right from the beginning. God was helping his son all through his life. Jesus even tells us that he could do nothing without his father......
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Of course! You couldn't find the verses I used perfect. You are a Christian and I am of the People you charge with the slander to have crucified Jesus. "He was taken away". Yes, Israel who was taken away into a permanent exile. To be cut off from the Land of the living is to be forced into exile forever as what happened to Messiah Ben Joseph aka Israel. Isaiah was a Judahite and his people was Judah. So, he said that Israel had been cut off by the transgression of Judah. To be assigned a grave with the wicked is to be forced into exile which is akin to death till the exile was over in the case of Judah aka Messiah Ben David. In the case of Israel, it has never been over. As you replace the people with the individual in Jesus, you are wrong twice. First, for promoting the Christian policy of Replacement Theology and second you are wrong because Jesus, for two reasons was not without sin. First because of Eccles. 7:20 and second because of Mat. 23:13-33 where he broke the Golden Rule 15 times, a rule that covers the whole second part of the Decalogue.
No my friend, that's Israel, the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 if you read Isaiah 41:8,9 and 44:1,2,21. You don't even know the reason why Jesus was arrested because Christian preconceived notions won't allow you to. Jesus was arrested on a charge of insurrection for allowing his disciples to acclaim him king of the Jews in Jerusalem, a Roman province at the time. Hence his verdict INRI nailed on the top of his cross by orders of Pilate so that every one could know why Jesus was crucified. (Luke 19:37-40) It didn't help though, because to this very day the anti-Semites still prefer to slander the Jews with a lie than the truth why Jesus was crucified. One has to be a Christian to say that I have mentioned a verse about Jesus because there is absolutely nothing in the Tanach about Jesus.
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MJFlores
Well-Known Member
You know you have to really "show" the whole verse or chapter for transparency.
As you could see Isaiah used the pronoun "he, him, his" to depict Jesus
and pronoun "our, thier, we" to depict Israel - plurality of people
It is pretty obvious
Now, Jesus is an Israelite and was a Jew
You used Isa 53 and I will show this below:
Isaiah 53 New International Version (NIV)
Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Everybody knows this is the Lord Jesus Christ - in red
And the people of his generation and this latter times - in blue
These things happened to Jesus Christ and not to Israel
Maybe you should check with your Rabbi