Who is Jesus?

[Harel13]

I have never understood the trinity.

I've heard a number of analogies trying to explain it, but I've found all to be flawed, according to my monotheistic, Jewish mind. So I still don't get it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You must know about the claim that Jesus is God since you know it came from outside the Bible. You know the idea exists.

Sure.

So if you ever did become a Christian, you would already have the idea the Jesus is God before you actually read the Bible? I know you can't answer that question definitively (who knows the future?), just wondering what you might think.

In this hypothetical, I think it would depend which sort of Christian I was.

There are denominations that proclaim Jesus as God and some that proclaim that he definitely is not God. Presumably, I would have chosen my denomination based on whether I accept its belief system.

 

[Marcion]

I am trying to see what people who have not read the Bible, or who have read it only a little, understand about the nature of Jesus. I don't care if you believe it or not, just trying to get an idea of what people think it says.

Do people already "know" that Jesus is God before ever cracking the book. In other words, if and when they do open the book for the first time, do they have preconceived ideas about Jesus?

Thanks!

Reading the whole bible collection is not going to prove to me whether Jesus was divine or not.
Before I read anything in the bible collection, I thought Jesus was probably just another person, because I didn't believe that beating the laws of physics was possible.

After closely studying the reconstructed original teachings of Jesus (taken fom gMatthew and gLuke), I learnt that Jesus says in those teachings that he is the Master and that he is one with the Father (God).

There are different levels of self-realisation or unification with God (part of Buddhism: with "nothingness"), so Jesus saying that he is one with the Father need not mean that he is the highest type of spiritual Master.
I suppose that if you have a special relationship with Jesus you will believe that he is sinless (no blemishes inherited from previous lives).

I think the original teachings are too brief to be able to judge the exact status of Jesus.
From a tantric viewpoint though Jesus cannot have the same divine status as Krishna or Shiva because he was not married.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Fair enough . . . I've read the 'Christian' bible as well as most of the other world's faith scriptures.
There, to this day, remains absolutely no actual evidence of the existence of Jesus/Yeshua the Nazarene.
That said, I am convinced that this is a fictional character found in the books regarding the Abrahamic faiths.
This character personifies the many ancient myths of the dying/resurrecting god.

As for being 'God', I will assume you mean the Abrahamic god Yahweh?
Being that Yahweh was originally a north Arabian rain god worshiped by the Semitic tribes, and later a war god (divine warrior) of the Hebrews, I do not conclude that Yeshua and Yahweh are the same.

This is a case of "the evidence doesn't agree with me so I am going to ignore it."

Jewish text in some sections refers to a troublemaker that they alternatively call YESHU (this is not the name Yeshua but rather an acrostic, meaning something like "that his name be erased") and another name. This mysterious character is apparently a ******* (fits) and defies the authoriry of the priests (also fits). This figure supposedly sets himself up as a false Messiah but is a pervert. Some passages of the same text simply erase him from mention. As in, the text simply talks about the topic and that version doesn't mention the guy.

Roman text as well has a few people mention Jesus or "those followers of Christ" when they aren't actually believers themselves. (Real) historians do not dispute that there might have been a martyr and troublemaker named Jesus, what they dispute is any miracles performed.

 

[EtuMalku]

This is a case of "the evidence doesn't agree with me so I am going to ignore it."

Jewish text in some sections refers to a troublemaker that they alternatively call YESHU (this is not the name Yeshua but rather an acrostic, meaning something like "that his name be erased") and another name. This mysterious character is apparently a ******* (fits) and defies the authoriry of the priests (also fits). This figure supposedly sets himself up as a false Messiah but is a pervert. Some passages of the same text simply erase him from mention. As in, the text simply talks about the topic and that version doesn't mention the guy.

Roman text as well has a few people mention Jesus or "those followers of Christ" when they aren't actually believers themselves. (Real) historians do not dispute that there might have been a martyr and troublemaker named Jesus, what they dispute is any miracles performed.

There are several Yeshu named in Jewish scripture, none of them refer to Yeshua.
As for the Roman texts, could you provide a link to them, I do not know of any that mention Jesus.

 

[rrobs]

So how are Jews more Christian than Christians?

The Bible, which "defines" Christianity, claims one God, Yahweh. As far as I know Jews believe in one God. Christians believe in three Gods, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

So Jews, more aligned with the Bible, are more Christian than Trinitarian Christians.

 

[Harel13]

The Bible, which "defines" Christianity, claims one God, Yahweh. As far as I know Jews believe in one God. Christians believe in three Gods, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

So Jews, more aligned with the Bible, are more Christian than Trinitarian Christians.

No. The NT defines Christianity. Jews are aligned only with what Christians call the OT.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The Bible, which "defines" Christianity, claims one God, Yahweh. As far as I know Jews believe in one God. Christians believe in three Gods, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

So Jews, more aligned with the Bible, are more Christian than Trinitarian Christians.

Question: God and Jesus could be the same being, and the Holy Spirit could be the wisdom attained by the cultivation of the teaching, that makes it one God right?

 

[EtuMalku]

No. The NT defines Christianity. Jews are aligned only with what Christians call the OT.

However, Jesus is stated in the NT that all of the OT must be followed and not one word changed.

 

[Harel13]

However, Jesus is stated in the NT that all of the OT must be followed and not one word changed.

And yet, look where Christianity is at today...

 

[rrobs]

I just wanted to say that as far as knowing what is in the Bible, you usually don't know what's in a book without reading it or hearing a summary first.

It's the hearing a summary part I'm interested in. I suspect that most folks read the Bible for the first time already "knowing" Jesus is God. I suspect it is next to impossible not to have heard that Jesus is God from somebody or somewhere. But I'm not certain of that, hence my OP.

All I wanted to know was if people who have not read the Bible already "know" Jesus is God. I don't think I phrased the question well enough though, as I'm not getting very many "to the point" answers. I was looking for a simple yes or no. I better figure out how to conduct a decent poll.

 

[Harel13]

Question: God and Jesus could be the same being, and the Holy Spirit could be the wisdom attained by the cultivation of the teaching, that makes it one God right?

I think that's how non-Trinitarian Christians see those three entities. It's still not a Jewish idea.

 

[EtuMalku]

Question: God and Jesus could be the same being, and the Holy Spirit could be the wisdom attained by the cultivation of the teaching, that makes it one God right?

Doesn't it seem more like Christianity did away with the Feminine Energy of prior 'pagan' theologies? Wouldn't the trinity of Father - Mother - Son (child) make more sense?

 

[EtuMalku]

It's the hearing a summary part I'm interested in. I suspect that most folks read the Bible for the first time already "knowing" Jesus is God. I suspect it is next to impossible not to have heard that Jesus is God from somebody or somewhere. But I'm not certain of that, hence my OP.

All I wanted to know was if people who have not read the Bible already "know" Jesus is God. I don't think I phrased the question well enough though, as I'm not getting very many "to the point" answers. I was looking for a simple yes or no. I better figure out how to conduct a decent poll.

How can you 'know' something about something which is a fabrication in the first place?

 

[EtuMalku]

And yet, look where Christianity is at today...

Where is it at today?

 

[Harel13]

Where is it at today?

Not keeping the OT, that's for sure.

 

[rrobs]

Jesus comes by every Thursday to do my yard work.

I live near the Southern Border, so I know a few folks name Jesus also. Say hola to Jesus next Thursday for me.

 

[Darkforbid]

A light

 

[EtuMalku]

Not keeping the OT, that's for sure.

THAT may be the only smart thing they every did . . . what a bloody, evil, mess that OT is!

 

[rrobs]

I have never understood the trinity.

Who could? Consider the Athanasian Creed,

"...So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God..."

It lists three Gods than goes on to say they are not three Gods but one God?????????

No wonder you don't understand that. I think it is a sign you have a sane mind.