Who is Sin an offense against?

[Sunstone]

In your opinion, is sin an offense against god? An offense against your fellow humans? Both an offense against god and an offense against your fellow humans? Or something else altogether?

Why? What's your reasoning?

 

[seeking4truth]

Sin is that which takes you further from the best/right path - for you; for the whole society; and is that which reduces your ability to benefit from spiritual growth.

God being perfect, ever living, all sustaining cannot be harmed by your sin.
Can God be offended?
If our actions do not comply with the purpose of our creation it is we who suffer not God.

Therefore sin is an offense against ourselves and through us, others.

 

[Sunstone]

Sin is that which takes you further from the best/right path - for you; for the whole society; and is that which reduces your ability to benefit from spiritual growth.

God being perfect, ever living, all sustaining cannot be harmed by your sin.
Can God be offended?
If our actions do not comply with the purpose of our creation it is we who suffer not God.

Therefore sin is an offense against ourselves and through us, others.

Interesting take on it. Thanks!

 

[sandandfoam]

I think sin is a metaphoric way of understanding what is happening when I am out of sync with myself. Hence I don't think it is an offense. Sin is a story I can tell myself about being lost.

 

[CMike]

What kind of sin?

 

[Nakosis]

I think the biblical meaning of sin is pretty clear as far as the OT goes. Sin is breaking one of God's laws.

The penalty is having to sacrifice one of your best lambs.

Seems the manner of civilization. Break the law, pay a fine. Somehow this civil process got morphed into eternal torture.

Me, I prefer the Greek meaning of missing the mark. Where you think you understand what is true but you're actually off the mark by some degree.

So sin is not an offense, it's just a mistake. Mistakes aren't necessarily bad either. They're only bad when you fail to learn from them.

 

[Tarheeler]

In your opinion, is sin an offense against god? An offense against your fellow humans? Both an offense against god and an offense against your fellow humans? Or something else altogether?

Why? What's your reasoning?

It depends on what we're talking about.

The Torah sets out how we, as Jews, should live our lives, and it is all encompassing; it tells us how to eat, how to conduct business, how to treat our fellow man, and how to worship God. Our term for sin means "to miss the mark", and is generally understood to indicate that we have failed to live up to our end of the deal.

In that sense, everything we do contrary to Torah is an "offense" against God, and we remedy it by correcting the situation or the behavior and living in a manner that doesn't repeat it. If what we have done (or failed to do) involves another person, such as theft or assault, then it is also against a person, and we must make amends for what we have done to the person we wronged as well as "squaring up" with God.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

In your opinion, is sin an offense against god? An offense against your fellow humans? Both an offense against god and an offense against your fellow humans? Or something else altogether?

Why? What's your reasoning?

First, you would have to define what a "sin" is. My idea of "sin" differs from that of most organized religions. For me, "sin" would only be a transgression that brings physical/mental harm to, or disrespects another living thing. Considering the god that I believe in is not an interpersonal god, then I do not think it is possible to know what it thinks of "sin," or if it even cares. "Sin" definitely is an offence to fellow humans though.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

In your opinion, is sin an offense against god? An offense against your fellow humans? Both an offense against god and an offense against your fellow humans? Or something else altogether?

Why? What's your reasoning?

Like many widely-used words, I find "sin" to be an offense against the clear, consistent, and concise expression of meaningful ideas.

 

[ChristineES]

It is an offense against man and God. We really can't harm God, however. But in my belief, harming another person is the same as harming God and the same as harming yourself (Love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemies, etc.)

 

[George-ananda]

Sin is mainly an offense against yourself in my thinking.

 

[Sleeppy]

What kind of sin?

Why ask, if all the commandments against sin come from God?

 

[Penumbra]

It depends on what we're talking about.

The Torah sets out how we, as Jews, should live our lives, and it is all encompassing; it tells us how to eat, how to conduct business, how to treat our fellow man, and how to worship God. Our term for sin means "to miss the mark", and is generally understood to indicate that we have failed to live up to our end of the deal.

In that sense, everything we do contrary to Torah is an "offense" against God, and we remedy it by correcting the situation or the behavior and living in a manner that doesn't repeat it. If what we have done (or failed to do) involves another person, such as theft or assault, then it is also against a person, and we must make amends for what we have done to the person we wronged as well as "squaring up" with God.

Do you think the two ever conflict?

For example, as a hypothetical, if a religious book says to kill an animal a certain way, but then later there is invented a quicker and less painless way to kill an animal, should people switch to that new method to reduce suffering, or should they stick with the older method so that they avoid offending god even if it means not using what is no longer the optimized method?

Or, as another example, if a religious book says to kill homosexuals, but then people later conclude that homosexuality isn't really a problem and that maybe it would better to love and accept homosexual people instead, which path should be followed in your view, assuming they believe that book original rule really was from god?

Imo, the only time the religious idea of sin becomes a problem, or differs from rational ethical behavior, is when it starts to involve victimless behavior (hair styles, certain food choices, sexual orientation, and so forth) or even possibly promotes what is shown to be harmful behavior or less-than-optimized behavior. Or in other words when what the rules say to do, doesn't correspond to what is most beneficial to oneself and others.

 

[StarryNightshade]

To me, "Sin" is akin to missing the mark. Not reaching our full potential and suffering the consequences therein. Said consequences can affect ourselves and/or others.

For example, we as humans are capable of such love and compassion, but instead many are more focused solely on themselves and don't give a damn about others. This can also include being compassionate for the wrong reasons. That is a sin if there ever was one, and I'm just as guilty of it as much as the next person.

 

[Sabour]

Sin is that which takes you further from the best/right path - for you; for the whole society; and is that which reduces your ability to benefit from spiritual growth.

God being perfect, ever living, all sustaining cannot be harmed by your sin.
Can God be offended?
If our actions do not comply with the purpose of our creation it is we who suffer not God.

Therefore sin is an offense against ourselves and through us, others.

This is a perfect answer

 

[Tarheeler]

Do you think the two ever conflict?

For example, as a hypothetical, if a religious book says to kill an animal a certain way, but then later there is invented a quicker and less painless way to kill an animal, should people switch to that new method to reduce suffering, or should they stick with the older method so that they avoid offending god even if it means not using what is no longer the optimized method?

Or, as another example, if a religious book says to kill homosexuals, but then people later conclude that homosexuality isn't really a problem and that maybe it would better to love and accept homosexual people instead, which path should be followed in your view, assuming they believe that book original rule really was from god?

Imo, the only time the religious idea of sin becomes a problem, or differs from rational ethical behavior, is when it starts to involve victimless behavior (hair styles, certain food choices, sexual orientation, and so forth) or even possibly promotes what is shown to be harmful behavior or less-than-optimized behavior. Or in other words when what the rules say to do, doesn't correspond to what is most beneficial to oneself and others.

The Torah has two components, written and oral, and they must be taken together; the plain text meaning isn't always the basis for our law, and our tradition allows for it to be applied to modern situations with modern understanding. Look at the law concerning "an eye for an eye" for example. Even today many people (even on this forum) will tell me that it literally means that if you blind someone you should be blinded in return. But Jewish law holds that it is an illustration to show that we must compensate someone wronged for the damage we have done. What seems like like brutal and barbaric justice is really a fundamental lesson in fair treatment and restitution to those we have wronged.

Personally, I believe that all of our laws are designed to help us to be good and honorable people; to show us how to love our neighbor and interact with the world. If there is a law that goes against that, then I have to assume we have misunderstood either the intent or the application of that law. We haven't stoned anyone for anything in thousands of years, after all.

 

[CMike]

Originally Posted by CMike
What kind of sin?

Why ask, if all the commandments against sin come from God?

Because there are sins that are just against G-D, and there are also sins against your fellow man.

There are also intentional and unintentional sins.

Sins agains your fellow man, in judaism, you must first seek forgiveness from the person you sinned against and then you go before G-D.

Sins solely against G-D you can ask for forgiveness directly from G-D without having to get forgiveness first from anyone else.

 

[Sabour]

Because there are sins that are just against G-D, and there are also sins against your fellow man.

There are also intentional and unintentional sins.

Sins agains your fellow man, in judaism, you must first seek forgiveness from the person you sinned against and then you go before G-D.

Sins solely against G-D you can ask for forgiveness directly from G-D without having to get forgiveness first from anyone else.

What so you mean by unintentional sins

 

[CMike]

Do you think the two ever conflict?

For example, as a hypothetical, if a religious book says to kill an animal a certain way, but then later there is invented a quicker and less painless way to kill an animal, should people switch to that new method to reduce suffering, or should they stick with the older method so that they avoid offending god even if it means not using what is no longer the optimized method?

Or, as another example, if a religious book says to kill homosexuals, but then people later conclude that homosexuality isn't really a problem and that maybe it would better to love and accept homosexual people instead, which path should be followed in your view, assuming they believe that book original rule really was from god?

Imo, the only time the religious idea of sin becomes a problem, or differs from rational ethical behavior, is when it starts to involve victimless behavior (hair styles, certain food choices, sexual orientation, and so forth) or even possibly promotes what is shown to be harmful behavior or less-than-optimized behavior. Or in other words when what the rules say to do, doesn't correspond to what is most beneficial to oneself and others.

In judaism you use the method given by G-D. You can't improve on perfection.

The Torah does say homosexual behavior is an abomination. That doesn't change no matter how "stylish" it may now be.

Also, the criteria for the death penality was so strict that it was virtually impossible to carry out.

Below is a little about it.

The Death Penalty in Jewish Tradition - My Jewish Learning

 

[CMike]

What so you mean by unintentional sins

Almost all the sins that there were sacrifices for were unintentional sins.

Just to give a secular example.

If your break light is out and you don't realize it. You broke the law even though it was unintentional.