Who taught Christianity to Paul?

[Ken Brown]

Utter nonsesne.

Dude, we are talking about histroy here, not your apologetics, nor some mystery text.


Moses does not exist historically according to every credible scholar there is, nor can anything be attributed to him.

Moses has nothing to do with Paul.


The gospel authors are al unknown, and never knew Jesus nor ever heard a word from his lips.

Hi outhouse, then WHY do the writings of Moses show the suffering, death, burial, and third day resurrection of Yeshua? And why does Yeshua say:

Jn 5:46 - 5:47

46 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. 47 “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

And why are you so concerned with anything about Yeshua? KB

 

[outhouse]

there was no new testament around then ?.

No there was no NT in Pauls time.

There were however a abundance of scripture floating around, Paul tells us this.


Modern scholars all state we only have a fraction of what once was written.


Parts of Q and parts of Thomas as well as parts of Mark and possibly some of John MAY have existed in other earlier forms though.

All the gospels are compilations of traditions with some aspects going far back.

so if Paul was killing Christians who were the Christian of that time,

These were Hellensitic Jewish Proselytes and Gentiles in the Diaspora. There were many beliefs and traditions. There was nothing that resembled orthodox christianity. Their numbers were very low and you just had different houses where people would gather and discuss jesus and traditions they believed were his.

Most of his was done by oral tradition. Again by peole that never knew or met him, unless they were lucky to have sen him at Passover before he was killed.

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, then WHY do the writings of Moses show the suffering, death, burial, and third day resurrection of Yeshua? And why does Yeshua say:

Jn 5:46 - 5:47

46 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. 47 “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

And why are you so concerned with anything about Yeshua? KB

Moses didnt exist, just becuse the Johaninne community that wrote John thought he did and made a spiritual conection in scripture of teh oT.


I study in depth as a historian would the REAL life of the man the mythology grew around.

Maybe I have more passion then you do for jesus as a atheist. I an looking for the historical truth about the man. Paul and the unknown gospel authors are only partial evidence twoards this. They have never been historically accurate.

 

[steeltoes]

Paul was not one of Jesus apostles. He made himsel a apostle after murdering christians.

How do we get from this:

Galatians13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it.


to this?:


Paul was not one of Jesus apostles. He made himsel a apostle after murdering christians.

 

[steeltoes]

No there was no NT in Pauls time.

There were however a abundance of scripture floating around, Paul tells us this.


Modern scholars all state we only have a fraction of what once was written.


Parts of Q and parts of Thomas as well as parts of Mark and possibly some of John MAY have existed in other earlier forms though.

All the gospels are compilations of traditions with some aspects going far back.




These were Hellensitic Jewish Proselytes and Gentiles in the Diaspora. There were many beliefs and traditions. There was nothing that resembled orthodox christianity. Their numbers were very low and you just had different houses where people would gather and discuss jesus and traditions they believed were his.

Most of his was done by oral tradition. Again by peole that never knew or met him, unless they were lucky to have sen him at Passover before he was killed.

Oral tradition? Are you now trying to tell us that you know what people were saying in the first century? Oh my.

 

[Ken Brown]

Moses didnt exist, just becuse the Johaninne community that wrote John thought he did and made a spiritual conection in scripture of teh oT.


I study in depth as a historian would the REAL life of the man the mythology grew around.

Maybe I have more passion then you do for jesus as a atheist. I an looking for the historical truth about the man. Paul and the unknown gospel authors are only partial evidence twoards this. They have never been historically accurate.

Hi outhouse, I'm not sure you have any real passion for Yeshua. Your passion seems to be focused upon proving your atheism, and that passion may change ONCE you come to a knowledge of the Truth concerning what Moses wrote. KB

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, I'm not sure you have any real passion for Yeshua. Your passion seems to be focused upon proving your atheism, and that passion may change ONCE you come to a knowledge of the Truth concerning what Moses wrote. KB

If you had a passion for theology, would you not want to study it and find the truth?

Why do you avoid the truth?


take Moses.

Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated


You do know that Israelites did not exist prior to 1200 BC and they evolved from Canaanites and used Canaanite deities.

Yahweh was a Canaanite deity before Israel used him.

 

[outhouse]

Ken

Have you ever taken a college course on Paul? or the NT? or the OT?

 

[steeltoes]

Ken

Have you ever taken a college course on Paul? or the NT? or the OT?

Have you ever read what Paul actually states?

 

[roger1440]

Dear roger,
You apparently are reading a different bible than me. Paul always seems to worry about his self professed position, whether he is trying to provide evidence that he is an apostle or that he is a prophet. The man professes humility, but goes on to say anyone is accursed if not in Gestapo step with him.
In actuality, the one who is accursed, is the one "who is all things to all men". Jeremiah 48:10,"Cursed be the one who does the Lord's work with deceit".

Galatians 1:8 NAS

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed !

“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.” (2 Cor. 2:12)


Who is this “man” and why doesn’t Paul reveal the mans identity?

 

[Ken Brown]

If you had a passion for theology, would you not want to study it and find the truth?

Why do you avoid the truth?

take Moses.

Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated


You do know that Israelites did not exist prior to 1200 BC and they evolved from Canaanites and used Canaanite deities.

Yahweh was a Canaanite deity before Israel used him.

Hi outhouse, look, there are those who say the Holocaust cannot be substantiated, and that is was not an actual historical event that took place. And this event supposedly took place only 70 some years ago, so how am I to believe and accept the claim that Moses and the Exodus cannot be substantiated, when that timeframe was 1470 years BEFORE the coming of Messiah? There are all kinds of wild claims, but the TRUTH of the matter is that a very long time ago, someone who claimed to be Moses WROTE of Yeshua's suffering, death, burial, and third day resurrection, and those things actually took place. And IF your mind would ever be OPENED to grasp and understand what Moses wrote, you would stop being an atheist. KB

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken

Have you ever taken a college course on Paul? or the NT? or the OT?

Hi outhouse, didn't Paul state:

1Cor 1:27 but Elohim has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and Elohim has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,

You go ahead and take your college courses, I will let the Holy Spirit guide me into ALL Truth:

Jn 16:13 - 16:14

13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

For that matter, I will source something that most college professors do not have access to:

1Cor 2:16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Messiah.

My schooling comes FROM the Mind of Messiah, so why would I want to learn or be taught from those who do not have His Mind. KB

 

[Knight of Albion]

There was no Christianity during the time of Paul. The movement was still Jewish, so it would have been virtually impossible for Paul to actually do something with Christianity.

On a side note, the teachings of Paul do make a foundation for Christianity. So Paul is needed for Christianity.

"There was no Christianity during the time of Paul"?
What do you think the Apostles were teaching? What were they seeking to win converts to?

Nazarenes, or Hebrew Christians if you prefer, but either way Christian.

James, brother of Jesus, was the first ruler of the Christian Church in Jerusalem....

You are perhaps getting mixed up with Roman Catholicism. That didn't come into being until the 4th century. Though the creed of Roman Catholicism is Churchianity, not Christianity.

Paul was the arch-enemy of the early Christians. His later 'conversion' was nothing more than a ruse to destroy Christianity from within. [He was to lead a meat-eating schism against true Christianity, being vehemently opposed to nearly everything it stood for.]

In the Clementine Homilies there is a record of how Paul ambushed James and his Christian brethren in the temple, and incited the crowd present to set upon them and tear them limb from limb. Paul is recorded as personally violently assaulting James, savagely beating him and throwing down the temple steps and leaving him for dead.

And Church doctrine is centred on Paul!

There's more Paul than Jesus in the Bible New Testament! And what has Paul to do with anything anyway? He never even met Jesus.

Besides, even many pro-Bible scholars acknowledge that some of the Pauline Epistles weren't even written by Paul and that those that were suffered later interpolation.

 

[steeltoes]

Hi outhouse, look, there are those who say the Holocaust cannot be substantiated, and that is was not an actual historical event that took place. And this event supposedly took place only 70 some years ago, so how am I to believe and accept the claim that Moses and the Exodus cannot be substantiated, when that timeframe was 1470 years BEFORE the coming of Messiah? There are all kinds of wild claims, but the TRUTH of the matter is that a very long time ago, someone who claimed to be Moses WROTE of Yeshua's suffering, death, burial, and third day resurrection, and those things actually took place. And IF your mind would ever be OPENED to grasp and understand what Moses wrote, you would stop being an atheist. KB

The gospel writers relied on (borrowed from), ancient texts to write their story about Jesus.

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, look, there are those who say the Holocaust cannot be substantiated, and that is was not an actual historical event that took place.

They make that claim but they have ZERO credibility and are basically laughed at.

This is a very ignorant thing to compare because one ihas no credibility, and the other is not even debated and is now known as fact according to Israels best archeologist Israel Finkelstein.

Your making a case agains Fact VS garbage, shame on you.

And this event supposedly took place only 70 some years ago, so how am I to believe and accept the claim that Moses and the Exodus cannot be substantiated, when that timeframe was 1470 years BEFORE the coming of Messiah?

Stop the nonsesne Ken.

There are all kinds of wild claims, but the TRUTH of the matter is that a very long time ago, someone who claimed to be Moses WROTE of Yeshua's suffering, death, burial, and third day resurrection, and those things actually took place

Moses wrote no such thing. The NT authors used the O as a foundation while writing about Jesus. That is a fact, they liked aspects of Judaism.

. And IF your mind would ever be OPENED to grasp and understand what Moses wrote, you would stop being an atheist. KB

Moses did not write a word fatually. A man cannot describe his own death in detail


I am not asking you stop being a theist, that would be so classless. But I see you stoop to that level :slap:

 

[outhouse]

You go ahead and take your college courses, I will let the Holy Spirit guide me into ALL Truth:

So your denouncing universities, and education?

Good grief, how low can you go?

For that matter, I will source something that most college professors do not have access to:

Severe ignorance again?

They discuss these verses in detail

My schooling comes FROM the Mind of Messiah,

It factually does not.

It comes from personal interpretation and complete ignorance of the bibical text you find valuable.

Jesus never wrote a word in the bible so you cant possibly know what his mind was.


It is obvious you kow nothing about a Paul or Jesus that lived 2000 years ago, nor do you know anything about their cultures.

so why would I want to learn or be taught from those who do not have His Mind. KB

you denounce modern education on the subject, you have nothing valuable to bring to this debate. Personal ignorance and faith is not a tool to fight for the truth.

 

[Ken Brown]

So your denouncing universities, and education?

Good grief, how low can you go?

Severe ignorance again?

They discuss these verses in detail

It factually does not.

It comes from personal interpretation and complete ignorance of the bibical text you find valuable.

Jesus never wrote a word in the bible so you cant possibly know what his mind was.

It is obvious you kow nothing about a Paul or Jesus that lived 2000 years ago, nor do you know anything about their cultures.

you denounce modern education on the subject, you have nothing valuable to bring to this debate. Personal ignorance and faith is not a tool to fight for the truth.

Hi outhouse, to have the Mind of Christ or Paul, means that you understand how they think, what their thought process is and how they view things. Now, here is a little test for your college professors. Paul, in Romans 5:14 states that Adam is a "type" or "figure" of Him who was the come. In a sentence or two, please have your commentators and college professors explain how Adam is a type or figure of Messiah. Let's just see how well they do in showing how they think like Paul, having his mind. KB

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, to have the Mind of Christ or Paul, means that you understand how they think, what their thought process is and how they view things.

We factually know very little about what the real Jesus mind was, so your incorrect there.


Your guessing and have no real interest in finding the truth of the matter.

Now, here is a little test

Adam has no historicity as a actual being who ever existed. True or false?

 

[steeltoes]

Was Jesus an historical figure or simply mythical and does anyone know beyond a good guess?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Was Jesus an historical figure or simply mythical and does anyone know beyond a good guess?

Paul Bunyon was an historical figure and simply mythical... just like Jesus.