Who was ‘The ruler of the world’ spoken of in John 12:31?

[Soapy]

John 12:31 speaks of a person who is the ‘Ruler’ (Greek: Archon) of the world.

The verse, by context, implies that this was Satan. There are other verses that claim the same, such as: John 16:11, and John 14:30.

But trinitarian interpretation of scriptures says that Satan was only a ‘Prince’ of the world …

Does ‘Archon’ mean ‘Ruler’, or ‘Prince’ - for sure, a Prince is not a Ruler!!!

And Jesus claimed to be the Ruler - but Satan says ‘It is mine to give to whom I will’!

Yet we also know that GOD is the RULER of the world - and that THE FATHER is the ruler of the world!

How can this conundrum be resolved?

 

[Eli G]

The Greek word ἄρχ_ων/οντος is generic. It can be applied simply to human leaders so it means ruler or governor.

Some examples:

Matt. 9:18 ταῦτα αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος αὐτοῖς ἰδοὺ ἄρχων εἷς ἐλθὼν προσκύνει αὐτῷ
‘while he was saying these things to them, a certain ruler came and knelt down before him’

Luke 12:11 ὅταν δὲ εἰσφέρωσιν ὑμᾶς ἐπὶ … τὰς ἀρχὰς … μὴ μεριμνήσητε
‘when they bring you (to be tried) before … the rulers … do not be worried’

John 3:1 Ἦν δὲ ἄνθρωπος ἐκ τῶν Φαρισαίων, Νικόδημος ὄνομα αὐτῷ, ἄρχων τῶν Ἰουδαίων·
‘There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.’

1 Cor. 2:6,8 (...) τῶν ἀρχόντων τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου (...)
‘the leaders of this system of things’

Acts 7:27 τίς σε κατέστησεν ἄρχοντα καὶ δικαστὴν ἐφʼ ἡμῶν; (Compare v.35)
‘Who appointed you ruler and judge?’

Some believers give a somewhat "mystical" meaning to the word applied to spiritual beings who dominate this human system and their principal leader, Satan. But besides the misticism, those are, evidently, correct applications to that word.

 

[Soapy]

The Greek word ἄρχ_ων/οντος is generic. It can be applied simply to human leaders so it means ruler or governor.

Some examples:

Matt. 9:18 ταῦτα αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος αὐτοῖς ἰδοὺ ἄρχων εἷς ἐλθὼν προσκύνει αὐτῷ
‘while he was saying these things to them, a certain ruler came and knelt down before him’

Luke 12:11 ὅταν δὲ εἰσφέρωσιν ὑμᾶς ἐπὶ … τὰς ἀρχὰς … μὴ μεριμνήσητε
‘when they bring you (to be tried) before … the rulers … do not be worried’

John 3:1 Ἦν δὲ ἄνθρωπος ἐκ τῶν Φαρισαίων, Νικόδημος ὄνομα αὐτῷ, ἄρχων τῶν Ἰουδαίων·
‘There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.’

1 Cor. 2:6,8 (...) τῶν ἀρχόντων τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου (...)
‘the leaders of this system of things’

Acts 7:27 τίς σε κατέστησεν ἄρχοντα καὶ δικαστὴν ἐφʼ ἡμῶν; (Compare v.35)
‘Who appointed you ruler and judge?’

Some believers give a somewhat "mystical" meaning to the word applied to spiritual beings who dominate this human system and their principal leader, Satan. But besides the misticism, those are, evidently, correct applications to that word.

So how does your response answer the question pertaining to John 12:31 regarding who is referred to as ‘Ruler of the world’?

 

[Oeste]

But trinitarian interpretation of scriptures says that Satan was only a ‘Prince’ of the world …

I can assure you this is not the "only" thing Trinitarians or scripture has to say about Satan. For more simply read @Eli G's post again.

for sure, a Prince is not a Ruler!!!

Who says a Prince can't be a Ruler?

but Satan says ‘It is mine to give to whom I will’!

Is this an actual quote or another invention? If Satan didn't actually say this you should probably ditch the quote marks.

How can this conundrum be resolved?

A better worded or sourced OP?

 

[Soapy]

I can assure you this is not the "only" thing Trinitarians or scripture has to say about Satan. For more simply read @Eli G's post again.

Nothing to much say, as usual… and even what you do say is tainted by incredible lack of intelligence.

The point I made was of Satan being called ‘Prince’ IN GREEK where as the word used in the TRANSLATION was ‘GOD’/‘RULER’.

I did not say anything about any other aspect of Satan so your claim is completely invalid, malicious, and unwarranted.

Who says a Prince can't be a Ruler?

If you are going to ask a question like that then you need to make it rhetorical and provide a counter example.

But since it’s no problem to me to respond: You give me an example of a ‘Prince’ who is a ruler?

Is this an actual quote or another invention? If Satan didn't actually say this you should probably ditch the quote marks.

You know very well where this is quoted from. If you don’t like it as a quote then take as a close fit without compromise:

• ‘And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.’ (Luke 4:6)

A better worded or sourced OP?

 

[Mark La Buda]

John 12:31 speaks of a person who is the ‘Ruler’ (Greek: Archon) of the world.

The verse, by context, implies that this was Satan. There are other verses that claim the same, such as: John 16:11, and John 14:30.

But trinitarian interpretation of scriptures says that Satan was only a ‘Prince’ of the world …

Does ‘Archon’ mean ‘Ruler’, or ‘Prince’ - for sure, a Prince is not a Ruler!!!

And Jesus claimed to be the Ruler - but Satan says ‘It is mine to give to whom I will’!

Yet we also know that GOD is the RULER of the world - and that THE FATHER is the ruler of the world!

How can this conundrum be resolved?

Jesus Christ openly stated: “The ruler of the world…has no hold on me.” Jesus also said: “My kingdom is no part of this world…my kingdom is not from this source.”-John 14:30; 17:15; 18:36.

The apostle John declared that “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19) It is clear that the nations of the world never were and are not now under the guidance or rulership of God or Christ. While Jehovah permits “the superior authorities” to exist and maintain control of earthly governmental affairs, he does not appoint his angels over them. (Romans 13:1-7) Any “princes” or “rulers” over them could be placed there only by “the ruler of the world,” Satan the Devil. They would have to be demonic rulers rather than angelic guardians. There are, then, invisible demonic forces, or “princes,” behind the visible rulers, and national conflicts involve more than mere humans.

Relating scriptures: 2 Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 6:10-13; 1 Peter 5:8; 1 John 3:8-10; 5:19.

 

[Kenny]

But trinitarian interpretation of scriptures says that Satan was only a ‘Prince’ of the world …

Can you support this statement? I’m a believer in the Godhead but understand Satan as the god of this world.

 

[Soapy]

Can you support this statement? I’m a believer in the Godhead but understand Satan as the god of this world.

Kenny, ‘God’ means ‘Ruler’.

I’ve shown this over and over in this forum….!!!

• ‘The Chess Grandmaster is God of the Chess Match’
• ‘The judge is God of the Courtroom’
• ‘Who is God of the Basket Ball court?’

‘God’ is best served with a context…

• ‘Satan is God of the created world’
• ‘The lion is God of the jungle’
• ‘Our deity is God of all whom are called Gods’
• ‘The God of [this] world’ (the World does not include Heaven!)

 

[Kenny]

Kenny, ‘God’ means ‘Ruler’.

I’ve shown this over and over in this forum….!!!

• ‘The Chess Grandmaster is God of the Chess Match’
• ‘The judge is God of the Courtroom’
• ‘Who is God of the Basket Ball court?’

‘God’ is best served with a context…

• ‘Satan is God of the created world’
• ‘The lion is God of the jungle’
• ‘Our deity is God of all whom are called Gods’
• ‘The God of [this] world’ (the World does not include Heaven!)

As I said, I agree that Satan is the ruler of this world - multiple scriptures. My question is please show me your support for the statement that those who believe in the Godhead don’t believe that.

 

[Soapy]

As I said, I agree that Satan is the ruler of this world - multiple scriptures. My question is please show me your support for the statement that those who believe in the Godhead don’t believe that.

Where did that question come from?

I was looking at the fact that in the translation of the New Testament, the word, and title, ‘Ruler’, is what is written instead of the actual Greek equivalent of ‘Prince’.

I said that a ‘Prince’ is not a ‘Ruler’… Can anyone show that a Prince is a ruler.

What is Satan’s rule…? Satan is a STEWARD… he sits in for the king when the king is unable or not ready to be On Throne.

A Steward rule is temporary - he is not the fully authorised ruler. With this in mind, it can be seen how claims of Satan as ‘Ruler of the world’ can easily be stated if no context is given… or there is a design behind it: Why did the Bible translators replace ‘Prince’ with ‘Ruler’?

Satan knew that Jesus Christ was that King who would take over from him - but only after Jesus suffered heavily, was despised, was spat upon, brutalised, and crucified. So, he offered Jesus the kingdom WITHOUT having any of that done to him. Very tempting!!!

• ‘It is mine to give to whom I will’

Of course we know that if was HIS to give away, but that he HAD TO give it up to someone later, than sooner!! But if he could cause Jesus to sin then he would have to give it up all… Jesus was wise to his trick and refused the very tempting off.

So, it looks to me like the TERM, Prince, was written in the Greek to represent a ‘A Steward presently in the charge’ where the King (Jesus Christ) had not yet been seated as such:A ‘lesser’ ruler.

As for, ‘God of the system of things’. The term, ‘God’, is as I showed you. It means the one who is greatest (a Superlative Adjective). It is not calling Satan a DEITY… which is an actual believed on Spiritual head.

(P.s. What is ‘Godhead’?)

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

John 12:31 speaks of a person who is the ‘Ruler’ (Greek: Archon) of the world.

The verse, by context, implies that this was Satan. There are other verses that claim the same, such as: John 16:11, and John 14:30.

But trinitarian interpretation of scriptures says that Satan was only a ‘Prince’ of the world …

Does ‘Archon’ mean ‘Ruler’, or ‘Prince’ - for sure, a Prince is not a Ruler!!!

And Jesus claimed to be the Ruler - but Satan says ‘It is mine to give to whom I will’!

Yet we also know that GOD is the RULER of the world - and that THE FATHER is the ruler of the world!

How can this conundrum be resolved?

Simple. The Greeks were pagans, so any text in Greek is irrelevant. Only true Christians outside any pagan culutre count and that is in effect all of the world execpt the Jews, but they don't count as they are not Christians.
So the text is not relevant as it is pagan.

See, that was easy. Only converted Jews written in non-pagan languages count.

 

[wellwisher]

John 12:31 speaks of a person who is the ‘Ruler’ (Greek: Archon) of the world.

The verse, by context, implies that this was Satan. There are other verses that claim the same, such as: John 16:11, and John 14:30.

But trinitarian interpretation of scriptures says that Satan was only a ‘Prince’ of the world …

Does ‘Archon’ mean ‘Ruler’, or ‘Prince’ - for sure, a Prince is not a Ruler!!!

And Jesus claimed to be the Ruler - but Satan says ‘It is mine to give to whom I will’!

Yet we also know that GOD is the RULER of the world - and that THE FATHER is the ruler of the world!

How can this conundrum be resolved?

The Ruler of the World was Satan.

Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

The term spiritual forces of evil in heavenly places is connected to Satan. Satan was condone in heaven through the Old and into the New Testament until Revelations. This acceptance in Heaven ends after there is a war in heaven and the Red Dragon or Satan is thrown to the Earth.

This odd arrangement and its termination all stems from God resting on the seventh day. There is no place in the Bible that formally says that God's day of rest, ended. However, since the human Sabbath is a reflection this Divine Sabbath, God rested and did not work, and if work needed to get done, he need to make preparations in advance, and hire people, if needed.

Satan appears to have been part of the preparation; hired hand; placed in the tree of knowledge of good and evil to meet Adam and Eve and take care of them. Satan was condoned by Heaven as God rested. God was like the Chairman of the Board on leave, and Satan was his hired CEO in charge of the humans and the earth.

All the Epic creation was done, so Satan's job was more about maintenance. There is no more epic creation while God rested. This position as CEO of Earth is why Satan is able to offer Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth. Jesus knew Satan was also called the Lord of the Earth and was condoned by Heaven as God rested. When Jesus refuses to serve Satan's temptations in the desert, Satan's CEO job comes into question. This leads to a war in Heaven and Satan is fired by the Archangel Michael, as God continues to rest. Satan messed with God's son and that angered his Secret Service of Angels who protected Jesus.

Luke 4:9 And Satan took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written,

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
to guard you,’
11 and

“‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

Satan comes to the earth. However, most people are not aware that his status in heaven and his CEO title have changed. They continue to follow knowledge of good and evil, like all is this is a continuation of the Old way. This places everyone in a tough situation of being dammed if you do or don't.

In Revelation Jesus is brought to the throne of God. The Sabbath is also about family and teaching the children wisdom. Eventually, the open CEO position is filled by Jesus. Soon after, God goes back to work; epic creation returns.

Revelation 21 :: NIV. Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

 

[We Never Know]

John 12:31 speaks of a person who is the ‘Ruler’ (Greek: Archon) of the world.

The verse, by context, implies that this was Satan. There are other verses that claim the same, such as: John 16:11, and John 14:30.

But trinitarian interpretation of scriptures says that Satan was only a ‘Prince’ of the world …

Does ‘Archon’ mean ‘Ruler’, or ‘Prince’ - for sure, a Prince is not a Ruler!!!

And Jesus claimed to be the Ruler - but Satan says ‘It is mine to give to whom I will’!

Yet we also know that GOD is the RULER of the world - and that THE FATHER is the ruler of the world!

How can this conundrum be resolved?

Lets look at it....

John 12:31​

"New International Version
Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

New Living Translation
The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.

English Standard Version
Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out."

Now ask yourself who was cast/driven out of the world?



And now lets look at...

1 John 5:19

"New International Version
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

New Living Translation
We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one.

English Standard Version
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

Now ask yourself who is the evil one?

 

[Kenny]

Where did that question come from?



(P.s. What is ‘Godhead’?)

I quoted the question at the very beginning… not sure what you are asking for. It was pretty clear. What part wasn’t clear?


θειότης, ητος, ἡ, (Θεὸς,) Deity, God-head, i.e. the Divine nature and perfections, Rom. 1:20. Lucian iii. 149, and Isocr.


Bloomfield, S. T. (1840). In A Greek and English Lexicon to the New Testament (p. 177). Longman, Orme, Brown, Green, & Longmans.

God (Deity)

The God of the Hebrew and Christian faiths. Also: Almighty; Almighty God; Almighty Lord; Blessed; Deity; Everlasting God; Fear of Isaac; God; God (Biblical); God Almighty; God Most High; the God of Abraham; God of heaven; God of hosts; the God of Isaac; God of Israel; God of Jacob; God of our fathers; God of peace; God of Seeing; The God of the Hebrews; the god of the land; God of the living; the God of truth; God of vengeance; Holy; Holy One; Holy One of Israel; Holy One of Jacob; Holy place; I Am; I Will Be; King of glory; living God; Lord; Lord Almighty; Lord God; Lord God of hosts; Lord of Hosts; Lord, the God of Israel; Majesty; Master; Mighty God; the Mighty One of Jacob; Most High; Most High God; Rock; Sovereign God; Sovereign Lord; Spirit of God; Spirit of the Lord; Yahweh


The word “Godhead” appears three time in the NT KJV

 

[Oeste]

Nothing to much say, as usual… and even what you do say is tainted by incredible lack of intelligence.

Ad hominems like this are against forum rules @Soapy.

They detract and add nothing to any argument you wish to make.

The point I made was of Satan being called ‘Prince’ IN GREEK where as the word used in the TRANSLATION was ‘GOD’/‘RULER’.

You made no such point. In order to make this point you need to provide the book, verse and translation.

We can't do that for you Soapy. I have no idea what translation you are referring to.

If you are going to ask a question like that then you need to make it rhetorical and provide a counter example.

Seriously? You're the one who claimed princes can't be rulers, and once again you give not one source, nada, for your claim.

But since it’s no problem to me to respond: You give me an example of a ‘Prince’ who is a ruler?

I can give you several.

But I'm not giving you any until I see your sources. I'm not here to do your homework for you @Soapy.

I take the time to check my sources before I post them. So tell us where you read, or what you heard that lead you to believe princes can't be rulers. Is that written in scripture? Was it ordained by God? A universal principal that was encoded into our genes? Or did you mean to say something else?

Look, we all make mistakes. If you meant to say something else just say so and I'll stop asking.

You know very well where this is quoted from. If you don’t like it as a quote then take as a close fit without compromise:

• ‘And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.’ (Luke 4:6)

No Soapy...I didn't know where you were quoting from.

But now that you have sourced it as Luke 4:6, I do know where you are quoting from. But it's very late, 2 am, so I won't respond to it now. I have work to do in the morning.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Is our body evil? No. Yet, the Bible often speaks about the "flesh" as something evil.
Is the world evil? No. Yet, the Bible often speaks about the "world" as something evil.
Gnostics would influence some Christians to reject the body and the world as an evil thing... and then condemn marital sex and leave society to live as hermits.

Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and the world is loved by God (John 3:16). So we should honor our bodies and love the world.

God is the only Ruler of the world and the universe.
But, when the term "world" refers to the dominance of the "flesh" over society, then it is when "Satan" (as the representation of evil) is said to "rule the world".

In the episode of Luke 4:6, the devil was tempting Jesus to achieve the authority and splendor that came from conquest, violence, deception and looting. That was the way most emperor got their splendor.

 

[Betho_br]

Adam kept and tended the Garden of Eden (Some rabbinic interpreters see here the interpretation of caring for the earth itself), functioning as a kind of priest-king. Afterward, upon becoming an Elohim himself, he began to rule over the cursed earth.