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Whoa, Pope says there is no hell!
- Thread starter ThePainefulTruth
- Start date
He is qualified to comment. He has a lot of training, and if it were against dogma in place since the beginning of the church he would say so. Pretty sure he would.
Hardly news to those who experience it here and now ....... 
I fully support efforts to liberalize the thinking of the Catholic Church.
It is my opinion that eastern (Vedic) and certain western esoteric traditions are ahead of traditional Christianity in their understanding of our reality. This change of stance on hell for example, is a move closer to a better understanding of reality.
Although I am not now a Catholic (my birth and raised religion), I am not a bitter anti-Catholic and applaud moves that I see as moving things in a better direction. Christianity is still the vehicle of spirituality for many, and I like seeing it move closer to traditions I feel have a more advanced understanding.
It is my opinion that eastern (Vedic) and certain western esoteric traditions are ahead of traditional Christianity in their understanding of our reality. This change of stance on hell for example, is a move closer to a better understanding of reality.
Although I am not now a Catholic (my birth and raised religion), I am not a bitter anti-Catholic and applaud moves that I see as moving things in a better direction. Christianity is still the vehicle of spirituality for many, and I like seeing it move closer to traditions I feel have a more advanced understanding.
From the link, there was an addendum to the article which had a statement from the Vatican:
In a statement released on Mar. 29, after Scalfari's report garnered worldwide attention, the Vatican said:
"The Holy Father Francis recently received the founder of the newspaper La Repubblica in a private meeting on the occasion of Easter, without however giving him any interviews. What is reported by the author in today’s article [in La Repubblica] is the result of his reconstruction, in which the textual words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father."
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
False! It's been renamed to "Religious Forums"-- dah!
joe1776
Well-Known Member
Whether Francis actually said this or not, the reaction from good-hearted Christians in the comment section of the article is interesting. Read how happy it makes them to consider the possibility that billions of non-Christian souls might not be destined for eternal suffering in the afterlife after all.... Don't ya love 'em?
True colors showing through on this Satanic pedophile.
Worst Pope Ever.
This pope has proven himself to be a clown.
So where do all of his pedo priests go to?
Sounds like something a demon would say.
God needs to take charge this is getting out of hand.
You want a socialist pope? Cause that's how you get a socialist pope.
I've never really believed that the Good Lord was happy with this pope.
I wish you Catholics well and pray that God saves your Church from Lucifers grip.
Please wake up Catholics.
Watch this pope very, VERY closely. The "onion" is being pealed back layer by layer. As it is, you will see more and more clearly the defining of this pope as a marxist reformer and less of the vicar of Christ. More Che Guevara than St. Peter...
This Pope needs to be removed! If the Vatican has any soul left, it would remove Francis from his position! He's officially worse than Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia). Borgia at least honored the Christian Faith and kept the Catholic Church belief system intact despite all his misdeeds.
He's not saying socialist things but hewing to the traditional doctrine and history of the Catholic Church. You can of course disagree with those ideas, but they're from way before the development of socialist ideology. They are in the Bible.
Since what Pope Francis actually said is not recorded and could easily be a faulty quote. But I am reminded of C. S. Lewis' book "The Great Divorce" and wonder if what the Pope said might be reasonably close to this:
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”
Since what Pope Francis actually said is not recorded and could easily be a faulty quote. But I am reminded of C. S. Lewis' book "The Great Divorce" and wonder if what the Pope said might be reasonably close to this:
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”
The comments sections are often just pure sewage as in this case.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Since the Gop bought christianity.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
Quote: "The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: 'The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, 'eternal fire.' The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.' " (1035)
But the real point is that, especially in this case, the church can't be right then and right now. It's not the same thing as eating fish on Friday. Hell is/was an instrument of "holy" manipulation. Why would God want the wails and gnashing of teeth going on in the background for all eternity?
I did not think we were discussing the current Catechism. I think the catechism changes and have a book in my possession where an Anglican priest complains about it, in particular about a change to prayer books. You said 'Original', and the pope probably knows the history of the catechisms. If anybody is an expert he ought to be. Anyway its hard to hide the fact that the current catechism is at odds with traditional views. We should not make the universe be a mobius strip that Earth may remain flat. Catechisms change no matter who denies it. Just compare them. No, I do not view such a comment by the pope, if he did make it, to be innovative.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
I don't think the Catholic view of hell has ever been as hard-lined as Protestant sects, has it? We see this in the Eastern Church more than the Western, but I can't see that the Church has ever been too specific on the finer details of hell.
@Vouthon if you're tired of being everybody's Catholic expert on RF kick me, but- your thoughts?
@Vouthon if you're tired of being everybody's Catholic expert on RF kick me, but- your thoughts?
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
Hardly news to those who experience it here and now .......
???
When you applaud moves that are moving things in a better direction, you admit that they weren't going in the right direction in the first place. That's a good thing for science and other human directed institutions, but the church, especially the Catholic Church, is supposed to be divinely directed.
That's the thinking of the sadists who came up with the idea of hell in the first place, or their useful idiots.
...since when charity was made to be mandatory. i.e. socialism/communism.
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
It's irrelevant since the Church is supposed to be following divine directions. And if you say that they didn't understand things correctly, or they were corrupt, how does that further your (apparent) argument that the Church and/or Pope, or its/his directives, are infallible? And if they aren't infallible, then we're on our own.
Why would you want me to take the position that the pope was infallible? I haven't claimed any positions on your behalf. Get out of my pants.
I think you are over-interpreting ‘divinely directed’ as perfect and all-knowing with no place for growth in understanding to occur. That is not the official Catholic position.
The Church is a living institution and not something frozen in time (which I consider a good thing). Its opponents would like to see its feet nailed to the Middle Ages as that makes it an unmoving punching bag. These opponents are not interested in seeing better teachings for the followers but in pummeling the Church.
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He starts off talking about how he's surprised that the pope may hold a position different from certain past positions. I point out that the catechism can change. Then he says I'm claiming infallibility. If you disagree it means you are a member of the Shriners apparently. As usual no thread I've ever participated in started by him has resulted in a dialogue. Always I am accused of taking positions that I haven't.