Who's Jesus?

[Desert Snake]

Simple question, simple answers?

Who's Jesus?

 

[Sunstone]

My best guess is he was a charismatic mystic intent on reforming Judaism, and around whom legends and myths sprouted up, perhaps even to the point of somewhat obscuring the real person and his intentions.

 

[Desert Snake]

My best guess is he was a charismatic mystic intent on reforming Judaism, and around whom legends and myths sprouted up, perhaps even to the point of somewhat obscuring the real person and his intentions.

Works for me.


Other answers welcome.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Simple question, simple answers?

Who's Jesus?

A possible historical figure

 

[Desert Snake]

A possible historical figure

That's it? No other ideas?

 

[sun rise]

He was the manifestation of God in human form, one of the Avatars, which includes Krishna, Buddha and others.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's it? No other ideas?

You said simple. I dont know much about the written jesus and never had a personal connection with the bible. He did play for the NBA at one time, though. Good sports player.

Ya gotta probe me a bit more. My thoughts about jesus really are but a few.

 

[Tumah]

My best guess is he was a charismatic mystic intent on reforming Judaism, and around whom legends and myths sprouted up, perhaps even to the point of somewhat obscuring the real person and his intentions.

If it was to that extent, than why assume he was even a charismatic mystic? You could throw in any label there and the truth would be equally obscured.

 

[Tumah]

He was the manifestation of God in human form, one of the Avatars, which includes Krishna, Buddha and others.

And who were the writers of the NT for you, that you take their accounts as accurate?

 

[Sunstone]

If it was to that extent, than why assume he was even a charismatic mystic? You could throw in any label there and the truth would be equally obscured.

I didn't say I thought the truth was fully obscured.

 

[sun rise]

And who were the writers of the NT for you, that you take their accounts as accurate?

My belief that Jesus was a manifestation of God does not come from the Bible but from the East. Specifically from Ramakrishna and especially from Meher Baba.

I don't take the NT as being accurate history but rather inspired writing that has elements of what Jesus taught along with a bit of history and some mythology as well as some inventions by the authors.

 

[Twilight Hue]

A cult based Roman invention or a mythological figure parallel with other mythological figures of the time in light of the similarities that can be made with other stories at the time. Like that of Horus.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Simple question, simple answers?

Who's Jesus?

That question was answered in the Bible, it was to build the foundation of the belief in Jesus.

Mark 8:29"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ."

Peace to all.

 

[Vouthon]

A first century Jewish preacher, disciple of John the Baptist and populist reformer, who led a breakaway movement from that of the Baptist (after his execution) which challenged the religious elites of Judea (particularly in their interpretation of the purity laws).

He did this especially through his outreach to the outcasts of society: the unlettered poor, women, prostitutes, lepers, tax-collectors and others branded 'sinners' by the establishment. His disciples thought that he was the Messiah prophesied in the scriptures.

He himself was apparently convinced that Yahweh (the God of Abraham) was about to intervene in the course of human history, upending the social order in favour of the oppressed and excluded and thereby bringing about a seismic role reversal. To help bring about or prepare for this Kingdom of God, he taught his disciples to start to live its values out within and without themselves by following an itinerant lifestyle, loving their enemies, turning the other cheek in response to violence, caring for the poor, disabled and marginalised and abandoning all private possessions in favour of communal ownership. He also preached about the nature of this coming divine kingdom on earth by means of parables with hidden meaning and 'secrets' (according to the gospels) known only to his inner circle (i.e. Mark 4:10-11 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables").

Because of this belief (which was apocalyptic but not in the sense of an 'end-to-history' eschatology, but rather a great utopian change within history) Jesus seemed to think that the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem - a symbol for him of everything that had gone wrong with Judaism - would be destroyed or (according to his opponents' slander) should be destroyed, along with its sacrificial system, for which reason he orchestrated a subversive protest in the temple courtyard near the feast of Passover, declaring that it had become a den of robbers exploiting the people, rather than a house of God.

In doing this, Jesus was ritually acting out the prophecies of the Jewish Nevi'im as he understood them i.e. Isaiah chapter 2 where the prophet predicts a day when God would abolish warfare among men, institute universal peace (thus the reason why Jesus taught love for enemies, non-violence etc.) and bring down the mighty in favour of the poor ("Look, the LORD makes the earth empty, makes it waste, turns it upside down" (Isaiah 24:1)):


http://biblehub.com/esv/isaiah/2.htm

For out of Zion shall go forth the law,a
and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4He shall judge between the nations,
and shall decide disputes for many peoples;
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruning hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war anymore.

The haughty looks of man shall be brought low,
and the lofty pride of men shall be humbled,
and the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.

12For the LORD of hosts has a day
against all that is proud and lofty,
against all that is lifted up—and it shall be brought low​

These same scriptural texts referred to a "new temple" from heaven that would replace the old one (Ezekiel 40:1-42:20). The unique aspect of Jesus's intepretation was his outreach to the sinners, untouchables and undesirable 'under-classes' of society.

Jesus was subsequently betrayed by one of his disciples and arrested soon after this incident, convicted of blasphemy by the Sanhedrin for threatening destruction of the Temple, as well as for "corrupting" the morals of the nation on account of his practice of eating with and befriending 'low-lifes', and handed over to the Roman authorities who then interrogated, tortured and condemned him to death by crucifixion on charges of sedition and treason against the Roman Empire, because he had disturbed the fragile peace in their Judean buffer-state province.

Soon after his death, his most devoted followers started having ecstatic mystical experiences of him as an exalted figure seated beside God in heaven, which led them to believe that he had been a pre-existent divine being worthy of the worship normally given to Yahweh alone and had been God's agent of creation at the start of time. Because they regarded him as divine, they came to believe that he had defied death and would come again to judge the world and create the paradise he had promised.

And, generations of his subsequent followers then went on to enthral millions of Romans with this vision and effectively dominate the entire Empire with their ideology, which eventually became the official state creed, displacing paganism and the imperial cult.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Simple question, simple answers?

Who's Jesus?

I believe He was a Manifestation of God along with Moses, Zoroaster, Muhammad, Buddha and Krishna.

He came to reform the Teachings of Moses so the whole world could become illumined.

He was the Jewish Messiah rejected by most of His people and the 'Son of God'.

 

[sayak83]

Simple question, simple answers?

Who's Jesus?

A guy, a human, and a follower of Baptist John, who had mystical experiences that convinced him that he was here to do something special on behalf of the Jewish God. This led him to lead a faction of John's group and announce the imminence of the prophesied end times. This eventually led him to try to storm the Jewish temple on the annual holy day, get into trouble with the Romans and the Jewish priests. Then Romans had him crucified for treason. And he died.

 

[Jedster]

Simple question, simple answers?

Who's Jesus?

(assuming he existed), probably an early case of the Jerusalem syndrome

Jerusalem syndrome is a group of mental phenomena involving the presence of either religiously themed obsessive ideas, delusions or other psychosis-like experiences that are triggered by a visit to the city of Jerusalem.

 

[Vouthon]

A cult based Roman invention or a mythological figure parallel with other mythological figures of the time in light of the similarities that can be made with other stories at the time. Like that of Horus.

There is virtual universal consensus among qualified scholars of the Roman Empire, Second Temple Judaism and antiquity that he existed.

Who, in their right mind, is going to make up a story about a rebellious Jewish peasant son of a carpenter (and disciple of the eschatological preacher John the Baptist) in a backwater Roman province who went about preaching about the coming of a Kingdom of God on earth, who was arrested and executed for treason (thus ending in failure) after causing a disturbance in the Jewish Temple but subsequently divinized by his ecstatic followers who were convinced that he could defy death because they just couldn't fathom why God had let him die?

If you were going to make up a story, you wouldn't have your mythical hero undergoing execution as a Roman criminal....if you hoped to convert Romans to your creed. If you wanted him to appear sinless you wouldn't have him baptised for the remission of sins by John the Baptist (which is an act of submission to John). If you wanted him to be the authoritative hero, then why would you make him a disciple of someone else, namely John? Or his betrayal by Judas, suggesting that even some of his inner core disciples had second thoughts about him?

None of this has the air of romantic fiction or legend.

These, and other elements of his story, were inconvenient facts that the early Christians had to explain and defend - not make up (since they didn't help the spread of the movement). If you look at early Christian texts, their unease over these episodes and attempt to tailor them to fit a theological agenda is palpable.

Christianity would have been a much easier sell without these elements.

 

[Spiderman]

A Jew who taught some good things and is responsible for the existence of the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Churches, and Protestant Chrches.

He was born in a barn, lived with his mother till he was 30, never had a girlfriend, was a virgin all his life, and uneducated.

He is also is a guy with a name that is annoying to me when used by many of his followers.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There is virtual universal consensus among qualified scholars of the Roman Empire, Second Temple Judaism and antiquity that he existed.

Who, in their right mind, is going to make up a story about a rebellious Jewish peasant son of a carpenter (and disciple of the eschatological preacher John the Baptist) in a backwater Roman province who went about preaching about the coming of a Kingdom of God on earth, who was arrested and executed for treason (thus ending in failure) after causing a disturbance in the Jewish Temple but subsequently divinized by his ecstatic followers who were convinced that he could defy death because they just couldn't fathom why God had let him die?

If you were going to make up a story, you wouldn't have your mythical hero undergoing execution as a Roman criminal....if you hoped to convert Romans to your creed. If you wanted him to appear sinless you wouldn't have him baptised for the remission of sins by John the Baptist (which is an act of submission to John). If you wanted him to be the authoritative hero, then why would you make him a disciple of someone else, namely John? Or his betrayal by Judas, suggesting that even some of his inner core disciples had second thoughts about him?

None of this has the air of romantic fiction or legend.

These, and other elements of his story, were inconvenient facts that the early Christians had to explain and defend - not make up (since they didn't help the spread of the movement). If you look at early Christian texts, their unease over these episodes and attempt to tailor them to fit a theological agenda is palpable.

Christianity would have been a much easier sell without these elements.

Joseph Atwell a Biblical scholar surmised that Jesus was a propaganda invention developed by the Romans to pacify possible insurrections. It's controversial yet makes a lot of sense at the same time as a very real possibility.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-controversial-biblical-scholar-8870879.html