Why ‘us vs them’?

[CG Didymus]

Abdu'l-Baha just went on serving people in His community. The people that Vs Abdu'l-Baha, he would serve them as he would the best of friends.

Regards Tony

Yeah, good example. So, how would Abdul Baha' treat people on an internet religious debate forum? Maybe all that stuff about "consorting" with people in friendliness?

 

[Vinayaka]

...and half a billion Buddhists...

For sure. But the good thing is that, other than the disproportionate representation on forums, the Baha'i faith is very small player on the world stage, and there is no need to get concerned in any real way. Insults aren't bullets. They're included in 'let others do what they wish to do' for me. I only get concerned when it's more of a direct threat, like proselytizing to real people. Islam and Christianity are far greater threats to the Dharmic faiths collectively.

Some day you'll have to tell me more about your personal practice in Buddhism. Whenever there is no Hindu temple around, or if I feel like it, I go to Sikh gurdwaras or Buddhist temples to sit. I always feel comfortable and at home.

 

[Secret Chief]

Some day you'll have to tell me more about your personal practice in Buddhism.

That's easy done! These days it basically consists of meditation (zazen).

 

[CG Didymus]

And that was not how Baha'i was presented to me a dozen years ago. I was told, and shown "writings", that Babbulah believed it was time for the next step, but never by dismissing what came before. . . never expecting those who felt their place of opportunity to do God's work in older traditions to abandon that calling, but to reach out and give a hand up of understanding to the next generation of God's voice.

The Baha'i I communicated with had excellent knowledge of the Jewish scriptures/traditions, the Christian, and the Islamic and could tie them together very proficiently. He was great at moderating disagreements among these faiths. This Baha'i was also always interested in learning about other spritural beliefs and was never derogatory even if in disagreement.

Was this Baha'i I spoke with unique, or has this "faith" hardened so much in such a short time? I'm quite saddened at the possibility, because though I was not interested in delving deeper into Baha'i, what I saw them as I would have stood up for in solidarity of peaceful, positive carriers/doers of God's will. I thought them a bridge!

I think it's different in person. Here on the forum a Baha'i is going to be challenged about their beliefs and the claims they make. I think that has been a "hardening" factor for the Baha'is here.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Baha'is here are kind and understanding and respectful to new people they meet in person... especially if that person shows any interest in the Baha'i Faith.

Oh, and how do you feel about the knowledge of other religions by the Baha'is here on the forum?

Because one of the longest debates/arguments on a Baha'i thread was about Krishna being the founder of Hinduism.

And for me, I don't understand why the Baha'i Faith believes in the virgin birth of Jesus when only two gospel writers mention it. And they based it on one verse in Isaiah. A verse I think is taken out of context. Then in the Quran it has Mary giving birth to Jesus under a date palm tree.

Then there's the Baha'i belief that Ishmael was the son taken by Abraham to be sacrificed.

I don't see a knowledge other than whatever the Baha'i Faith says... that is what is true.

I'm glad you had a better experience and relationship with the Baha'is.

 

[Vinayaka]

That's easy done! These days it basically consists of meditation (zazen).

Thanks. I did a quick read, and it sounds fairly similar to what I am supposed to do, in terms of meditation. I go in spurts on meditating, but do a lot of other stuff, like japa, and daily pujas. Which pose do you use?

 

[CG Didymus]

The key is, I do not make the religions CG. It is God that gives and God that abrogates past dispensations of the same Holy Spirit.

That argument is with God, I can only share scriptures from all faiths.

Regards Tony

Yes, according to Baha'i beliefs.

 

[Secret Chief]

Which pose do you use?

- How to Sit Zazen — Mountain Rain Zen Community

I sit on a chair.

 

[Vinayaka]

- How to Sit Zazen — Mountain Rain Zen Community

I sit on a chair.

That's the site I just read. I'm a full lotus guy. It was interesting, as for years I couldn't get into lotus and stay comfortable. So I dropped the idea entirely for quite the while, maybe 20 years. Then one day I decided to check out how inflexible I'd become as I aged, and lo and behold, I just went right into it comfortably.

 

[Secret Chief]

That's the site I just read. I'm a full lotus guy. It was interesting, as for years I couldn't get into lotus and stay comfortable. So I dropped the idea entirely for quite the while, maybe 20 years. Then one day I decided to check out how inflexible I'd become as I aged, and lo and behold, I just went right into it comfortably.

Lucky you! Lotus and my knees have never been on speaking terms.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Baha'i law stating that marriage is only allowed between a man and a woman does not make the Baha'i Faith homophobic.
Only people can be homophobic.

The reason for that law is because Baha'u'llah stated that the primary purpose of marriage is to have children, and last I checked it takes a man and a woman to produce children.

homophobic: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against gay people.
homophobic means - Google Search

Baha'is do not have a dislike of or prejudice against gay people.
A Baha'i law is not homophobia, except in the distorted minds of people who want to denigrate the Baha'i Faith.

Your prejudicial law is an example of prejudice against same-sex couples. Homophobia seems like a fitting description to me.

 

[McBell]

This requires much discussion and contemplation on what we are created for, much discussion about our spiritual capacities.

Is that a conversation you want have?

Regards Tony

The question is simply "are you trying to undo the us/them thing that God Himself built into the matrix?

I would have thought the answer would be a simple Yes or No...

 

[Truthseeker]

That's what I see Baha'u'llah saying also, that part of the solution is recognizing him as what he calls a "Manifestation of God." According to him, practicing his teaching is useless without recognizing him as a Manifestation of God.

Not really useless, but recognizing Him helps.

The people of Baha, who are the inmates of the Ark of God, are, one and all, well aware of one another's state and condition, and are united in the bonds of intimacy and fellowship. Such a state, however, must depend upon their faith and their conduct. They that are of the same grade and station are fully aware of one another's capacity, character, accomplishments and merits. They that are of a lower grade, however, are incapable of comprehending adequately the station, or of estimating the merits, of those that rank above them. Each shall receive his share from thy Lord.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 169)

 

[Truthseeker]

That is how I see it as well. Recognizing Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation of God is our first duty, and our second duty is following His Laws.

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.” Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 19

What this means to me is that neither is acceptable without the other. So, is the person who follows His laws but is not a believer than Baha'u'llah at a lower grade than those who believe in Baha'u'llah but doesn't follow His laws? Above I gave a quote that pertains to this question:

The people of Baha, who are the inmates of the Ark of God, are, one and all, well aware of one another's state and condition, and are united in the bonds of intimacy and fellowship. Such a state, however, must depend upon their faith and their conduct. They that are of the same grade and station are fully aware of one another's capacity, character, accomplishments and merits. They that are of a lower grade, however, are incapable of comprehending adequately the station, or of estimating the merits, of those that rank above them. Each shall receive his share from thy Lord.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 169)

No one can say for sure which one is more important than the other, but they are both important.

 

[Niatero]

That's easy done! These days it basically consists of meditation (zazen).

That's an example of what I'll be looking for in the new thread that I'm planning, about everyday practices that can help improve the world for all people everywhere.

 

[Truthseeker]

Because one of the longest debates/arguments on a Baha'i thread was about Krishna being the founder of Hinduism.

He wasn't the founder of Hindu. No one knows what the origin was. Any Baha'i who says otherwise is ignorant.

1692. Hindu Religion

"...The origins of this and many other religions that abound in India are not quite known to us and even the Orientalists and the students of religions are not in complete accord about the results of their investigations in that field. The Bahá'í writings also do not refer specifically to any of these forms of religion current in India. So, the Guardian feels it impossible to give you any definite and detailed information on that subject. He would urge you however, to carry on your studies in that field, although its immensity is well-nigh bewildering with the view of bringing the Message to the Hindus..."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi" Dawn of a New Day, p. 198)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 502)

This answer is also for you @Spice.

 

[Truthseeker]

And for me, I don't understand why the Baha'i Faith believes in the virgin birth of Jesus when only two gospel writers mention it. And they based it on one verse in Isaiah. A verse I think is taken out of context. Then in the Quran it has Mary giving birth to Jesus under a date palm tree.

Then there's the Baha'i belief that Ishmael was the son taken by Abraham to be sacrificed.

I don't see a knowledge other than whatever the Baha'i Faith says... that is what is true.

Yes, that's quite true, we believe the knowledge comes from God, though, not the Baha'i Faith. @Spice should also know this.

 

[Truthseeker]

First let's deal with the basic question about "us v. them." This tendency is biologically engrained in us. It's literally in our DNA. It must have evolved because at some time in our past, not trusting strangers was a better survival technique. But you can LITERALLY divide psych 100 students into two completely random groups, have them shmooze for 15 minutes, and then when they fill out the questionnaires they will say their own group is smarter, funnier, friendlier, etc. RANDOM groups.

IOW, if we stopped dividing over skin color, politics, religion, national origin, etc., we would fight each other over which end of the egg to crack.

That's exactly what the spiritual realm is for, to counteract what evolution produced in us.

 

[Spice]

I think it's different in person. Here on the forum a Baha'i is going to be challenged about their beliefs and the claims they make. I think that has been a "hardening" factor for the Baha'is here.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Baha'is here are kind and understanding and respectful to new people they meet in person... especially if that person shows any interest in the Baha'i Faith.

Oh, and how do you feel about the knowledge of other religions by the Baha'is here on the forum?

Because one of the longest debates/arguments on a Baha'i thread was about Krishna being the founder of Hinduism.

And for me, I don't understand why the Baha'i Faith believes in the virgin birth of Jesus when only two gospel writers mention it. And they based it on one verse in Isaiah. A verse I think is taken out of context. Then in the Quran it has Mary giving birth to Jesus under a date palm tree.

Then there's the Baha'i belief that Ishmael was the son taken by Abraham to be sacrificed.

I don't see a knowledge other than whatever the Baha'i Faith says... that is what is true.

I'm glad you had a better experience and relationship with the Baha'is.

My Baha'i experience was on an internet religious forum, but there were only two Baha'i participants to the best of my recollection. I would ask a couple of RF members that I believe were on that forum as well, but that wouldn't adhere to privacy that everyone is entitled to, so I'll chalk it up to a one-off situation and continue learning from whoever gives me the opportunity. Thx for responding

 

[Niatero]

My Baha'i experience was on an internet religious forum, but there were only two Baha'i participants to the best of my recollection. I would ask a couple of RF members that I believe were on that forum as well, but that wouldn't adhere to privacy that everyone is entitled to, so I'll chalk it up to a one-off situation and continue learning from whoever gives me the opportunity. Thx for responding

I doubt that I was one of those people, but I've spent many hours studying Baha'i writings, I've had experience with Baha'is and Baha'i institutions online and offline, and I know a lot about what Baha'is think and do in four different countries. I also knew personally some of the people who were involved in the online feuding on all sides between Baha'is starting in the late 90s and going underground after three members were removed disqualified from the membership by their world council. Is there anything that you'd like to ask me, that I might be able to answer from my reading and experience?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The question is simply "are you trying to undo the us/them thing that God Himself built into the matrix?

I would have thought the answer would be a simple Yes or No...

Though there is an us vs them, in truth, God built unity and oneness into the matrix, the lack of this unity and oneness is the result of our choices. Faith has more to consider than just yes and no.

One has to read the many explanations on this topic. I can only make my choices, no one else's.

Regards Tony