Why "10" Commandments?

[Karolina]

How did we come to refer to these as being 10 in number? I've referenced the Bible in trying to see how they're divided to figure out why they differ between the Catholic and ... well, everyone else who references the 10 Commandments. If there are 613 commandments kept by Jews, and Jesus summarized them by saying "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:37-40), then where did we get the number 10?

Also, in the non-Catholic innumeration of the 10 Commandments, I don't really understand the difference between the first two commandments. "You shall not have other gods before Me" and "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below." (Exodus 20). I mean, if I don't have other gods, then doesn't that automatically include not making idols of these non-gods? What's more, this second commandment technically prohibits making an image of anything not only in heaven (like God), but also "on the earth beneath or in the waters below" - so no nature illustrations? No photography? No portraits?

I don't particularly care either way, as I can see the benefits of both numbering systems.

 

[rosends]

Ex 34:28 mentions that there were 10 specific statements carved onto the tablets and these are the statements that God/Moses gave the people at Sinai.

Are you asking about the number 10, the specifics of each one or whether they have a status any different from other commandments, or something else?

 

[Karolina]

Ex 34:28 mentions that there were 10 specific statements carved onto the tablets and these are the statements that God/Moses gave the people at Sinai.

Are you asking about the number 10, the specifics of each one or whether they have a status any different from other commandments, or something else?

Ahhh! ok, thank you, that definitely helps clarify things a bit. I guess from the Jewish perspective, I'd be interested to know the status of these 10 commandments vs the remaining 613 on the one hand, and the 7 Noahide ones on the other. Are Noahides not bound by the 10 commandments?

 

[rosends]

Ahhh! ok, thank you, that definitely helps clarify things a bit. I guess from the Jewish perspective, I'd be interested to know the status of these 10 commandments vs the remaining 613 on the one hand, and the 7 Noahide ones on the other. Are Noahides not bound by the 10 commandments?

For the background (and an answer to part of your question) check here.

As to whether the 613 include the 7 Noachide laws there are differing opinions

TORCH: Torah Weekly

TORCH is the premier resource for meaningful Jewish learning in Houston and the southwest!

www.torchweb.org

https://www.sie.org/templates/sie/article_cdo/aid/2419880/jewish/Jewish-Beliefs-The-Fundamentals-of-Judaism.htm

this sums it up Jewish Law - Articles - The Obligation of Jews to Seek Observance of Noachide Laws by Gentiles: A Theoretical Review

Noachides are bound by the seven some of which overlap (at least) with some fo the 10 (according to some understandings).

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Ahhh! ok, thank you, that definitely helps clarify things a bit. I guess from the Jewish perspective, I'd be interested to know the status of these 10 commandments vs the remaining 613 ?

They are the basis of the other mitzvoth. There are some who say that all of the 613 are extrapulated from the ten.

 

[Karolina]

For the background (and an answer to part of your question) check here.

As to whether the 613 include the 7 Noachide laws there are differing opinions

TORCH: Torah Weekly

TORCH is the premier resource for meaningful Jewish learning in Houston and the southwest!

www.torchweb.org

https://www.sie.org/templates/sie/article_cdo/aid/2419880/jewish/Jewish-Beliefs-The-Fundamentals-of-Judaism.htm

this sums it up Jewish Law - Articles - The Obligation of Jews to Seek Observance of Noachide Laws by Gentiles: A Theoretical Review

Noachides are bound by the seven some of which overlap (at least) with some fo the 10 (according to some understandings).

Thank you for these resources

 

[zacariah88]

People there are not only 10 comandments but also the mitzvahs laws 613 and are his commandments this is one of the conflicts modern christian don't see and many commands becuase not only are the 10 commands his but also he states that what comes from the mouth fo the lord and he ushers is a command people. Simple it says in Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy 30:10-14 “if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His commandments

Isaiah 55:11 11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Job 23:12 12 I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

See his voice and everythign he says is a law and command that that mean what he says to the prophets and issues a command and tell them to go to this land and tell them they wil be punished. is it law ? and it will be done ? Yes, people this is the conlfict not only are the 613 mitzvahs and 10 commandments but everything he has spoken to and what he edicts with hsi mouth is a law ! Wither we like it or not.

the question is people what he told the prophets, what he told king David, what eh told to gentiles and his people is it the same or was God different and specific ? He was the law was meant to Jews the miztvahs and 10 commandments and Jesus says two laws we must do to do his will that is love thy neighbor and love thy God was meant to address to us gentiles know this the not all of what God speak was meant or directed it was specific os don't think all the laws are meant for us but some are and they are some meant to Judaism only. And some to us gentiels being christians.

 

[Karolina]

People there are not only 10 comandments but also the mitzvahs laws 613 and are his commandments this is one of the conflicts modern christian don't see and many commands becuase not only are the 10 commands his but also he states that what comes from the mouth fo the lord and he ushers is a command people. Simple it says in Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy 30:10-14 “if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His commandments

Isaiah 55:11 11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Job 23:12 12 I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

See his voice and everythign he says is a law and command that that mean what he says to the prophets and issues a command and tell them to go to this land and tell them they wil be punished. is it law ? and it will be done ? Yes, people this is the conlfict not only are the 613 mitzvahs and 10 commandments but everything he has spoken to and what he edicts with hsi mouth is a law ! Wither we like it or not.

the question is people what he told the prophets, what he told king David, what eh told to gentiles and his people is it the same or was God different and specific ? He was the law was meant to Jews the miztvahs and 10 commandments and Jesus says two laws we must do to do his will that is love thy neighbor and love thy God was meant to address to us gentiles know this the not all of what God speak was meant or directed it was specific os don't think all the laws are meant for us but some are and they are some meant to Judaism only. And some to us gentiels being christians.

That's why I'm asking, where did this notion of "10" commandments come from, since a) they originate in the Hebrew Scriptures, and b) the Hebrew Scriptures as you said include many other commandments, so why these?

 

[We Never Know]

How did we come to refer to these as being 10 in number? I've referenced the Bible in trying to see how they're divided to figure out why they differ between the Catholic and ... well, everyone else who references the 10 Commandments. If there are 613 commandments kept by Jews, and Jesus summarized them by saying "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:37-40), then where did we get the number 10?

Also, in the non-Catholic innumeration of the 10 Commandments, I don't really understand the difference between the first two commandments. "You shall not have other gods before Me" and "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below." (Exodus 20). I mean, if I don't have other gods, then doesn't that automatically include not making idols of these non-gods? What's more, this second commandment technically prohibits making an image of anything not only in heaven (like God), but also "on the earth beneath or in the waters below" - so no nature illustrations? No photography? No portraits?

I don't particularly care either way, as I can see the benefits of both numbering systems.

Because......

 

[zacariah88]

LoL that's not why. But we are Babylon and what God told the jews in the times of moses, the time Hezekiah and in times of Jesus the way of speaking of arameo and speaking ancient hebrew in the times of King Hezekiah. change their definition we lost their meaning and what eh wanted us to know in secret sof the words he spoke to the prpophets, to his people, to gentiles, and to his king he said and he gave conditions and commands the lord says love hi and you will keep all thy commadnments.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How did we come to refer to these as being 10 in number?

The Bible text specifically refers to them as ten commandments.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

How did we come to refer to these as being 10 in number?

The following may help you with the Jewish perspective on why the number ten.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I don't really understand the difference between the first two commandments. "You shall not have other gods before Me" and "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below." (Exodus 20). I mean, if I don't have other gods, then doesn't that automatically include not making idols of these non-gods? What's more, this second commandment technically prohibits making an image of anything not only in heaven (like God), but also "on the earth beneath or in the waters below" - so no nature illustrations? No photography? No portraits?

The problem is mostely in the translation. The following may help with the Torah based Jewish side of things.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

What's more, this second commandment technically prohibits making an image of anything not only in heaven (like God), but also "on the earth beneath or in the waters below" - so no nature illustrations? No photography? No portraits?

Actually, it is not addressing nature illustrations, photography, or portraits. It is addressing creating something of any type, including intellectually, that is used to either a) claim to be the source of reality/creation in place of Hashem or b) to associate as the source of reality along with Hashem. This would include something that is claimed to harness the power of Hashem in a way Hashem did not command. For example, taking a picture is not against this mitzvah, but taking a picture and claiming that the picture, or the content in it, created the universe and gave the Torah, or that the picture harnesses some element of reality which Hashem placed in the picture, or that a person captured and placed in the picture, etc. would be a problem. I hope that helps.

 

[Karolina]

Actually, it is not addressing nature illustrations, photography, or portraits. It is addressing creating something of any type, including intellectually, that is used to either a) claim to be the source of reality/creation in place of Hashem or b) to associate as the source of reality along with Hashem. This would include something that is claimed to harness the power of Hashem in a way Hashem did not command. For example, taking a picture is not against this mitzvah, but taking a picture and claiming that the picture, or the content in it, created the universe and gave the Torah, or that the picture harnesses some element of reality which Hashem placed in the picture, or that a person captured and placed in the picture, etc. would be a problem. I hope that helps.

It does, thank you. Reading the text, especially in translation, really limits a person in how literally it can be taken, doesn't it.

 

[Karolina]

The problem is mostely in the translation. The following may help with the Torah based Jewish side of things.

View attachment 73884

View attachment 73885

Thanks for these. Does this mean the Mitzvah #1 above is only meant for the Jewish people? Isn't it also one of the Noahide laws?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Does this mean the Mitzvah #1 above is only meant for the Jewish people? Isn't it also one of the Noahide laws?

Yes, in the 10 commands this is only directed at the nation of Israel, that is why it mentions that Hashem brought the Israeli people out of Egypt in the same statement.

The source of the Noachide mitzvah about knowing that there is Hashem comes from before that. It is considered sourced from the mitzvah given to Adam. I.e. six of the 7 mitzvah of Noachide are considered to have come from the mitzvah that Hashem gave to Adam.

 

[Karolina]

Yes, in the 10 commands this is only directed at the nation of Israel, that is why it mentions that Hashem brought the Israeli people out of Egypt in the same statement.

The source of the Noachide mitzvah about knowing that there is Hashem comes from before that. It is considered sourced from the mitzvah given to Adam. I.e. six of the 7 mitzvah of Noachide are considered to have come from the mitzvah that Hashem gave to Adam.

Insteresting. I wonder why Christians latched onto the 10 commandments then...

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Insteresting. I wonder why Christians latched onto the 10 commandments then...

Given that they don't latch on to all of it, it may be a part of a process of replacement theology.

Maybe this may help.

Do the Ten Commandments Have Authority Over New Testament Christians?

For virtually all of church history, when people asked, “How do we do Christian discipleship?” their answers included an emphasis on the Ten Commandments.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[zacariah88]

This is why the commandments are not only the ten commandments everything in the bible God said is law ! Jesus ahs even the athourity to add laws and he said like this.

John 13:34 - Love One Another

A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also must love one another.

biblehub.com

This is why Jesus says he can make new laws and he is God the laws he said are the same valuea dn authority as the laws in moses was giving as he agve them when he came. His words are commandments but the promblem what he said to Israelites and the gentiles are two different things apart and also what he orders to his people, his kings, the women of his people, and his prophets all have by history of the bible giving different meanings and what he wanted he told in secret to some prophets and to some of his kings.

If you love the lord you will keep all of thy commands.

John. 14. [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments. [21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

people we are his children by love since we are not Jews not bron in the law in that way should we keep thy commadnments ? by the law of moeses no need to ! but by the law of Jesus love you cnaif you want to keep his commandments conlfict is there !

But people not only is the law or mitzvah the only thin we must keep ? We must discern that he wanted God as Jesus not to confomr there but go to where he wants us to worship hi in levels of worshipper we are. Should we do what Jesus says for us gentiles or christian in our side of not being jewish ? Yes. I love Judaism if it wasn't for them Jesus would of not come from there but he will come. but remember the laws and his word belongs to God part of God's people work was that they pass the word to us gentiels so we can be part of his kingdom and we all know the troubles in history but we must look passed that and go farther. And put thinsh in his hands and love like Jesus.

And not only do the alw of the 10 commandments but also what the psalms says and what he told to some specific prophets.

Luke 24:43and He took it and ate it in front of them. 44 Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.”

See that he words in psalm are just as valued as the ten commandments no matter what anyone says and all of the bible is word of God and Gold that save and loves and deliver us from oppresion of our enemy the devil. Do all of it and please your God and he will reward you. Do not listen to men or women but to God only. And find the real things in the bible as you study. Know i'm in a process of reading the the law of moses in and in specific way realizing some things he said to us Jews and gentiles that are not meant for us and some are. Be specific in the commands to find the real things of the bible.