Why Agree with God?

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

I’m asking why people think it’s proper to do that dear XD

I know it sounds silly ...

John: Why do you believe in such-and-such?
Jane: Because, I choose to believe such-and-such.

There are so many reasons as to why. Each person is different, with unique experiences. I interpret your question as though you are asking: why are we here, alive? There really is no answer expect that, we just are; or that, it is just the proper/logical thing to do.

No....there is no figure like that in Judaism that I am awareness of....and I don’t really like God’s plan.....

It is my understanding the Jewish Messiah is one who will rule in the literal fashion of King David, being a politician and statesman. That is what I meant. Of course, with every politician there is the matter of national defense – armies, slaughter, etc. In this respect the redeeming figure of Judaism is like Islam's, because he is a political. Redeemers in many other religions are not political, for example.

God has many more rules than 10.

I thought I might add: What does a law matter without a principle behind it? I understand the Mosaic law as having two principles: loving God, and loving man. So isn't there really just two laws; or even, really just one law?

 

[Naama]

I know it sounds silly ...

John: Why do you believe in such-and-such?
Jane: Because, I choose to believe such-and-such.

There are so many reasons as to why. Each person is different, with unique experiences. I interpret your question as though you are asking: why are we here, alive? There really is no answer expect that, we just are; or that, it is just the proper/logical thing to do.

I'm....having doubts about whether it is the logical thing to do....

It is my understanding the Jewish Messiah is one who will rule in the literal fashion of King David, being a politician and statesman. That is what I meant. Of course, with every politician there is the matter of national defense – armies, slaughter, etc. In this respect the redeeming figure of Judaism is like Islam's, because he is a political. Redeemers in many other religions are not political, for example.

Umm there have been many Messiah and will be more.

I thought I might add: What does a law matter without a principle behind it? I understand the Mosaic law as having two principles: loving God, and loving man. So isn't there really just two laws; or even, really just one law?

I don't follow God's laws and I don't know his principle behind it. Loving God and loving man are definitely not the principles behind it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: I do not adhere to the Bible because I am a Baha'i, and we have a new revelation from God that came through the Prophet Baha'u'llah. He explained what we can know about God, which is very little although it is enough.

I see no reason to believe in older scriptures when we now have new scriptures that are very clear and easy to understand.

So you don't believe in the Jewish prophets?

EDIT: Also I don't believe in the Bible, I believe in the Torah.

Sorry, what I said was probably confusing. I did not mean that the older scriptures did not come from God, I meant that I do not adhere to their teachings since I am a Baha'i and have new scriptures with new teachings.

I believe the Torah came from God and I believe that the Jewish prophets were inspired by God. I believe that Moses was a major Prophet of God, what I call a Manifestation of God, and the other Jewish prophets were lesser prophets. Although I do not know much about the Torah, I believe it is more authentic than the New Testament... Here is the official Baha'i position regarding the Torah:

From the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh:

The Four Gospels were written...the Torah that God hath confirmed consists of the exact words that streamed forth at the bidding of God from the tongue of Him Who conversed with Him (Moses).
(From a previously untranslated Tablet)

From the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá

Know ye that the Torah is that which was revealed in the Tablets to Moses, may peace be upon Him, or that to which He was bidden. But the stories are historical narratives and were written after Moses, may peace be upon Him.
(From a previously untranslated Tablet)

Know ye that the Torah is that which was revealed in the Tablets unto Moses, may peace be upon Him, and in that which He was commanded to do.... The glorious Book, the Mighty Decree, is what was in the Tablets which Moses, upon Him be peace, brought from Mount Sinai, and that which He proclaimed unto the Children of Israel, in accordance with the explicit text of those Tablets.
(From a previously untranslated Tablet)
The Bible

 

[Naama]

Sorry, what I said was probably confusing. I did not mean that the older scriptures did not come from God, I meant that I do not adhere to their teachings since I am a Baha'i and have new scriptures with new teachings.

I believe the Torah came from God and I believe that the Jewish prophets were inspired by God. I believe that Moses was a major Prophet of God, what I call a Manifestation of God, and the other Jewish prophets were lesser prophets. Although I do not know much about the Torah, I believe it is more authentic than the New Testament... Here is the official Baha'i position regarding the Torah:

From the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh:

The Four Gospels were written...the Torah that God hath confirmed consists of the exact words that streamed forth at the bidding of God from the tongue of Him Who conversed with Him (Moses).
(From a previously untranslated Tablet)

From the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá

Know ye that the Torah is that which was revealed in the Tablets to Moses, may peace be upon Him, or that to which He was bidden. But the stories are historical narratives and were written after Moses, may peace be upon Him.
(From a previously untranslated Tablet)

Know ye that the Torah is that which was revealed in the Tablets unto Moses, may peace be upon Him, and in that which He was commanded to do.... The glorious Book, the Mighty Decree, is what was in the Tablets which Moses, upon Him be peace, brought from Mount Sinai, and that which He proclaimed unto the Children of Israel, in accordance with the explicit text of those Tablets.
(From a previously untranslated Tablet)
The Bible

Ummm....I'm very very sorry to say this.....but that's just wrong. The Torah is comprised of various accounts, many of which came long after Noah and Moses....and according to the Torah; the Christian, Muslim, and Baha'i prophets could not be prophets of God.

 

[ronandcarol]

Why Agree with God?
He created you, He gives you every heartbeat and breath that you take and He loves you so much that He sent His Son to die in your place so that you can spend eternity with Him.
I think that deserves our love and devotion, for everything that God says. He only means and does what is best for those who love Him. The choice is entirely yours.
ronandcarol

 

[Trailblazer]

Ummm....I'm very very sorry to say this.....but that's just wrong. The Torah is comprised of various accounts, many of which came long after Noah and Moses....and according to the Torah; the Christian, Muslim, and Baha'i prophets could not be prophets of God.

I assume it is based upon your interpretation of the Torah, because I do not believe that the Torah is wrong. I know that Jews believe there can be no more prophets, but to a Baha'i that means there can be no more prophets like the ones in the Torah, not that God can never send any more Messengers, what we call Manifestations of God.

If you read this chapter, then you will understand what I mean by Major Prophets (independent Prophets) and lesser prophets (followers and promoters):

Question.—How many kinds of Prophets are there?

Answer.—Universally, the Prophets are of two kinds. One are the independent Prophets Who are followed; the other kind are not independent and are themselves followers.

The independent Prophets are the lawgivers and the founders of a new cycle. Through Their appearance the world puts on a new garment, the foundations of religion are established, and a new book is revealed. Without an intermediary They receive bounty from the Reality of the Divinity, and Their illumination is an essential illumination. They are like the sun which is luminous in itself: the light is its essential necessity; it does not receive light from any other star. These Dawning-places of the morn of Unity are the sources of bounty and the mirrors of the Essence of Reality.

The other Prophets are followers and promoters, for they are branches and not independent; they receive the bounty of the independent Prophets, and they profit by the light of the Guidance of the universal Prophets. They are like the moon, which is not luminous and radiant in itself, but receives its light from the sun.

The Manifestations of universal Prophethood Who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. But the others who are followers and promoters are like Solomon, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. For the independent Prophets are founders; They establish a new religion and make new creatures of men; They change the general morals, promote new customs and rules, renew the cycle and the Law. Their appearance is like the season of spring, which arrays all earthly beings in a new garment, and gives them a new life.

With regard to the second sort of Prophets who are followers, these also promote the Law of God, make known the Religion of God, and proclaim His word. Of themselves they have no power and might, except what they receive from the independent Prophets.
43: THE TWO CLASSES OF PROPHETS, Some Answered Questions, pp. 164-165

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Why do you think he is those things? I know Christian scriptures say he is like that, but the Jewish ones seem to say he is at least not all-loving,

What's worse is that in Christian scriptures, Jesus died saving us and fixed the problem, but God's just going to torch the planet anyway.

At the very least God knows a lot more than we do.

Debatable.

Especially when you know God knows all your thoughts and everything about you. (Psalm 139:1-6)

Needs a huge red sign to distinguish Hebrews from Egyptians.

What about angels do you think you know more than angels? Angels believe God is right.

I hear there was one who disagreed.

Mostly, I believe that some form of 'treat others as you would be treated' covers pretty much everything.

Never ask the Joker how anyone should be treated.

If that God exists, as I believe he does, I would have to be one arrogant dude to believe I could out think him on morality.

I've read the OT and NT and most people could out-think the morality in them.

God loves all of his children and the scriptures say he weeps when we suffer, especially children.

He just doesn't feel any real urge to stop it.

I mean, my father is still without his millstone.

He created you, He gives you every heartbeat and breath that you take and He loves you so much that He sent His Son to die in your place so that you can spend eternity with Him.

And then Jesus rose from the dead and wasted everyone's time, especially since God was clearly able to forgive before and during Jesus' life.

 

[Naama]

I assume it is based upon your interpretation of the Torah, because I do not believe that the Torah is wrong. I know that Jews believe there can be no more prophets, but to a Baha'i that means there can be no more prophets like the ones in the Torah, not that God can never send any more Messengers, what we call Manifestations of God.

If you read this chapter, then you will understand what I mean by Major Prophets (independent Prophets) and lesser prophets (followers and promoters):

Question.—How many kinds of Prophets are there?

Answer.—Universally, the Prophets are of two kinds. One are the independent Prophets Who are followed; the other kind are not independent and are themselves followers.

The independent Prophets are the lawgivers and the founders of a new cycle. Through Their appearance the world puts on a new garment, the foundations of religion are established, and a new book is revealed. Without an intermediary They receive bounty from the Reality of the Divinity, and Their illumination is an essential illumination. They are like the sun which is luminous in itself: the light is its essential necessity; it does not receive light from any other star. These Dawning-places of the morn of Unity are the sources of bounty and the mirrors of the Essence of Reality.

The other Prophets are followers and promoters, for they are branches and not independent; they receive the bounty of the independent Prophets, and they profit by the light of the Guidance of the universal Prophets. They are like the moon, which is not luminous and radiant in itself, but receives its light from the sun.

The Manifestations of universal Prophethood Who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. But the others who are followers and promoters are like Solomon, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. For the independent Prophets are founders; They establish a new religion and make new creatures of men; They change the general morals, promote new customs and rules, renew the cycle and the Law. Their appearance is like the season of spring, which arrays all earthly beings in a new garment, and gives them a new life.

With regard to the second sort of Prophets who are followers, these also promote the Law of God, make known the Religion of God, and proclaim His word. Of themselves they have no power and might, except what they receive from the independent Prophets.
43: THE TWO CLASSES OF PROPHETS, Some Answered Questions, pp. 164-165

It's not that Jews believe there can be no more prophets, it's that Jews believe that prophets must meet certain criteria.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's not that Jews believe there can be no more prophets, it's that Jews believe that prophets must meet certain criteria.

What are the criteria?

 

[Sunstone]

...I am baffled by why so many people believe that because a god or goddess exists that we should agree with their rules and attitudes.

I am of the insufferably boring opinion that, when it comes to deciding how to live a good life, it is best to ignore the gods.

If they exist, they have made it impossible for us to be certain they exist. Quite obviously, then, they do not want us relying on them. All those "Thou shalts" and "Thou shalt nots" are most likely inventions of the clergy, rather than of the gods. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Etritonakin]

Where do the scriptures say that? Those aren’t in the Jewish scriptures at least.....

Here are a few verses relating to my post -will find more later.
These show the expectation of eternal life (as well as inhabitation of "the heavens" -which means where the stars are -not heaven where the throne of God now specifically resides) and an understanding that the present adversity is toward our perfection.

Isaiah 45: 6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

Job 19:25For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; thoughmy reins be consumed within me.

Isaiah 13:11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

17But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

 

[dianaiad]

Many things about God. He is powerful and knowledgeable and can be loving but he can also be angry, wrathful, and jealous.



The scriptures have many rules......Not eating pork is a (in)famous example.




What if only the Jews are His children? What if He is looking out for Himself?

God is so powerful and intelligent He could easily manipulate us if He wants to.

So...what's so horrible about not eating pork? True, I would miss bacon. And sausages. and ham...

But those who don't eat pork are less likely to get trichinosis or Staphylococcus aureus.

Now me, I don't drink coffee or tea, nor do I smoke or drink alcohol. I abstain from these for religious reasons, and those rules were made...rather like the rules of the Israelites...partly for health reasons but mostly to separate them as a group from the rest of the world. When one is a 'persecuted minority,' which the Jews have pretty much always been, such rules and self identification are important.

..........and doesn't hurt YOU any. You choose what you want to do. Don't blame the rules for your not wanting to follow them.

 

[Naama]

What are the criteria?

Oh boy. I honestly don't think I can explain it all correctly without messing it up.

But basically claiming God is in multiple parts, contradicting past scripture, and claiming to be the son of God are all big no nos.

 

[Naama]

Here are a few verses relating to my post -will find more later.
These show the expectation of eternal life (as well as inhabitation of "the heavens" -which means where the stars are -not heaven where the throne of God now specifically resides) and an understanding that the present adversity is toward our perfection.

Isaiah 45: 6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

Job 19:25For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; thoughmy reins be consumed within me.

Isaiah 13:11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

17But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

I'm sorry but none of these OT verses seem yo explicitly say that..... Also when you want to talk about Judaism you should really use the Torah, the OT has a lot of changes and errors in translation Jews don't believe in.

 

[Naama]

So...what's so horrible about not eating pork? True, I would miss bacon. And sausages. and ham...

But those who don't eat pork are less likely to get trichinosis or Staphylococcus aureus.

Now me, I don't drink coffee or tea, nor do I smoke or drink alcohol. I abstain from these for religious reasons, and those rules were made...rather like the rules of the Israelites...partly for health reasons but mostly to separate them as a group from the rest of the world. When one is a 'persecuted minority,' which the Jews have pretty much always been, such rules and self identification are important.

..........and doesn't hurt YOU any. You choose what you want to do. Don't blame the rules for your not wanting to follow them.

You said all the rules where about loving God or man. What about when the Torah says that God commanded the Jews to go kill and pillage another people?

 

[David T]

....come again? XD

It was a simple enough statement. Remove the books that leaves you with a singular dysfunctional region of the brain dysfunctionally self labelled "higher functioning". You in fact asked "what is this dysfunction" in the region of the brain that is being dysfunctional. Its like atheists will point to dysfunction and then embrace the dysfunction as a reply to the dysfunction. Very circular which is the dysfunction that manifests linguistically, " I believe, I don't believe, I am agnostic."

A singular dysfunction in the "higher functioning region" articulated in three ways. Its all nonsense.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

At the very least God knows a lot more than we do. Especially when you know God knows all your thoughts and everything about you. (Psalm 139:1-6)

What about angels do you think you know more than angels? Angels believe God is right.

What is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge in the Jewish scripture?

Isn't the whole point of the Garden of Eden story that humanity now has knowledge of good and evil "as gods?"

If we don't have this, wouldn't that mean that we've somehow overcome the Fall and the saving grace of Christ's sacrifice is no longer needed?

 

[Naama]

It was a simple enough statement. Remove the books that leaves you with a singular dysfunctional region of the brain dysfunctionally self labelled "higher functioning". You in fact asked "what is this dysfunction" in the region of the brain that is being dysfunctional. Its like atheists will point to dysfunction and then embrace the dysfunction as a reply to the dysfunction. Very circular which is the dysfunction that manifests linguistically, " I believe, I don't believe, I am agnostic."

A singular dysfunction in the "higher functioning region" articulated in three ways. Its all nonsense.

So you seem to believe there are more options that believe or non believe?

Also I understand it's a metaphor but can we please drop the dysfunction thing....I love working with special needs children and that makes me uncomfortable....

 

[Thief]

Better to be moral in hell than immoral in heaven. If citizenship in heaven is based only on butt-kissing and not morality, it's a worthless place to be anyway.

I suspect you have the tables turned

and I have read somewhere.....
many do good things even in the Name of the Lord.....and He knows them not

so much for sucking up

there are no works of the hand that will justify you before God and heaven
(read that too)

so much for earning a spot

AND.....it was God's Favored that led the rebellion
so the story goes

so much for a secured position
even if you ARE God's Favored

here's a clue.....it's your motivation that counts

 

[Naama]

Why Agree with God?
He created you, He gives you every heartbeat and breath that you take and He loves you so much that He sent His Son to die in your place so that you can spend eternity with Him.
I think that deserves our love and devotion, for everything that God says. He only means and does what is best for those who love Him. The choice is entirely yours.
ronandcarol

Umm....I normally won't be able to respond to you unless you quote me....

But why do you believe that?