Why are people expected to dress nicely at church?

[Shadow Wolf]

... thinking about your signature block, seriously.

I'm not a Christian and it's the chorus of a very silly song. The song is basically about not taking some things too seriously. Amd it's really funny.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

... thinking about your signature block, seriously.

I believe that not believing what Jesus says about EVERYTHING... is not a good witness for Jesus... no matter what else you have to say that kinda sorta looks good.

Jesus says they will know that you are Mine by the love you have for one another... He was speaking to the ones who actively followed Him and did what He told them to do... so the you and the one another are both the followers of Jesus' word.

Universal love is often tough love... a message Jesus unfailingly taught.

People who are within your sphere of influence, and act like they might believe what you say about Jesus... this is the place for real true love. Jesus says the world will hate those who follow Him, because they hate Him. And the only way for that to happen is if the same message taught by Jesus is taught by those who actually do what Jesus says.

That is interesting. When I was a Christian I was basically taught the same thing. And the world didn't hate me. I never knew any religious persecution until after I left the Church. And you're going to post a lecture about love when I already mentioned that is what Jesus instructed?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

1 Timothy 2:9.
Applies equally to men.

 

[Left Coast]

We base all our beliefs and practices on original Christianity. That’s why we are different.

Lol. That's what literally all churches say.

We have no paid clergy.
No single shepherd to guide and teach the flock.
We are all preachers and we are all students of God’s word.
We refuse to be drawn into the world’s politics because we were told to be no part of that.
We will not participate in any nation’s bloodshed because Jesus told us to love our enemies.
We will not accept beliefs that were practiced by those who worshipped other gods.
We will not adopt pagan festivals which were originally held to honor those foreign gods because that makes us disloyal to a God who requires exclusive devotion and strict adherence to his laws.

These are just some of my reasons....but I am assuming that yours may not have been the same?

My reasons for not being a JW? Yes, quite a different list.

- There's no good reason to think a God exists as described in Christianity.

- There's no good reason to think the Bible reflects the commandments of any such God or accurately describes any supernatural or miraculous phenomenon. It's thoroughly mythological, like many other scriptures.

- There's no good reason to think that the Witnesses have a monopoly on proper interpretation of the Bible, or that one must be part of your particular sect to be a "true" Christian.

- Your organization's teachings about LGBTQ people are harmful and at odds with the evidence.

- Your organization's treatment of people who leave your organization is atrocious.

- Your organization has a particularly bad track record with predicting the whole end-of-the-world thing.

That should be a sufficient summary to give you the idea, I hope.

That is not my experience. I left Christendom for what she failed to teach and what she neglected to do....

I have yet to find a Christian sect that doesn't teach that the Bible clearly outlines "true" Christianity (which always happens to be, hey, their version!) and that other versions of Christianity are "not true" or "not Biblical" Christianity. That is the near-universal position of Christian churches and denominations.

What “ones” did you leave? And why?

I was originally a Baptist/Evangelical, and later became Catholic. Reasons for leaving as listed above. There is of course more to my story than a few bullet points, perhaps PM me if you're genuinely interested in hearing more? Rather than derailing this thread.

Oh yes, those one sided stories that are often told on the net.....

As opposed to your story, which surely has no bias at all.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I don't know how your Kingdom Halls work but many Catholic and Episcopal parishes are open all day for people to come and pray in the sanctuary or try to speak with clergy. They usually have signs out front saying "all are welcome" or something similar, not "all are welcome unless you don't fit our standards of dress". At the Episcopal parish I attend, there might be a couple homeless people sitting or sleeping in the pews during and around the liturgy. No one cares and they don't bother anyone. Yes, they are dressed in shabby clothing, too. But they are still God's children and it's better they be in a church then on the street, even if it's just for a few hours.

Everyone is welcome to attend our meetings (JW Kingdom Halls). As long as they’re not there to cause a ruckus, we’re glad to have them visit!

Our KH’s are not open 24/7, though; only during our meetings, and about 1/2 hour before and after.

 

[Deeje]

My reasons for not being a JW? Yes, quite a different list.

- There's no good reason to think a God exists as described in Christianity.

- There's no good reason to think the Bible reflects the commandments of any such God or accurately describes any supernatural or miraculous phenomenon. It's thoroughly mythological, like many other scriptures.

- There's no good reason to think that the Witnesses have a monopoly on proper interpretation of the Bible, or that one must be part of your particular sect to be a "true" Christian.

- Your organization's teachings about LGBTQ people are harmful and at odds with the evidence.

- Your organization's treatment of people who leave your organization is atrocious.

- Your organization has a particularly bad track record with predicting the whole end-of-the-world thing.

That should be a sufficient summary to give you the idea, I hope.

Thank you for that, it helps me to see where you are coming from.

Just a couple of points....
Faith is a matter between any person and God. What we choose to believe us up to us. We have free will and our choices are not determined by God but by ourselves. That way we can't blame anyone but ourselves for how it all turns out....can we?

I had a feeling that the LGBTQ issues would surface somewhere in there. Though we do have those of the LGBTQ community in our ranks....they just cannot be practicing their sexual preferences. Its a sacrifice that they are willing to make however. Not having sex is something many heterosexuals have to deal with too.

Morality is dictated by God and he reserves sexual activity to males and females in a sanctioned marriage arrangement, with the intention or hope of producing children. SS couples cannot have a scriptural marriage and they cannot naturally produce children. Nature teaches us that we need both sexes to reproduce. And unless you are "married" in God's eyes, if you are sexually active, you are guilty of fornication....no matter what gender you are. Its a moral issue.

It is a choice though....you cannot be a Christian and a non-celibate homosexual. You have to choose one or the other. Your choice is yours to make....God will not force you to do anything against your will.

I believe that those who choose to love God more than their own bodies will be grateful that they did, because it is a sacrifice that gains God's approval. No one can help their sexual orientation, but then we are told that it has constraints which we may not like. Its only "harmful" because you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I have yet to find a Christian sect that doesn't teach that the Bible clearly outlines "true" Christianity (which always happens to be, hey, their version!) and that other versions of Christianity are "not true" or "not Biblical" Christianity. That is the near-universal position of Christian churches and denominations.

The near universal position of "Christian" churches is all pretty much the same in my experience. I tried different denominations and found them to all teach the same false doctrines....so much so that I couldn't really understand what divided them... I just knew I needed to get out of there.

I was originally a Baptist/Evangelical, and later became Catholic. Reasons for leaving as listed above. There is of course more to my story than a few bullet points, perhaps PM me if you're genuinely interested in hearing more? Rather than derailing this thread.

I think you have indicated your bullet points well.

As opposed to your story, which surely has no bias at all.

I have been on both sides of that story a few times with family members who were disfellowshipped at different times....unless you have access to both sides, you cannot judge. I have a granddaughter back in the fold after 5 years of a living hell, than none of us thought she could ever recover from.....the world chewed her up and spat her out after a life of drugs and tattoos and drunkenness with a man 10 years her senior, who manipulated her and turned her against the only people who really loved her.

After she fell pregnant, he didn't want her anymore and she gave birth to a little boy and felt destitute. Her brother convinced her to come home and he went to another state and brought her back. She was painfully thin and physically and mentally unwell, but her parents took her and the baby in and nursed her back to health with as much love and compassion as they could muster. Once she got on her feet, she started studying the Bible again and came back to Jehovah.....then she regained her standing in the congregation. She is covered from head to foot in tattoos but we see them as battle scars, which is a constant reminder of where the world can take you if you leave God.

She is now happily married with a new little man to complete her family. There are many happy endings like this. I wish I could tell you more of them.
Not all stand outside the door shaking their fist and gnashing their teeth...just the ones who want to get even.....God forgives in a large way....all he needs to see is a contrite heart. Pride makes people do stupid things at times. A humble heart gets you what you desire.....

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I have yet to find a Christian sect that doesn't teach that the Bible clearly outlines "true" Christianity (which always happens to be, hey, their version!)

I’ve found that most groups of Christendom are no different than the world, allowing sexual immorality and vice among their members (1 Corinthians 5). They certainly support their respective nation’s wars, with few exceptions (Quaker, Amish, ?), even killing their spiritual brothers because of some geographic boundary.

Just how is that obedient to John 13:34? — John 15:14
And how do you think John 13:35 applies?

 

[Prim969]

Of course. If people really followed Christ's teachings, they'd be living in communes.

Saint Frankenstein if the church followed your letter to full and did just that. I dare say there would be no Christian faith left nor anything of western civilisation as we know it today.. It be the very reason we have monasteries set aside for more enquiring minds and for those who do seek more.

 

[Prim969]

I'm not a Christian and it's the chorus of a very silly song. The song is basically about not taking some things too seriously. Amd it's really funny.

Shadow Wolf you say your not a Christian. Yet you seem much interested in the ways of the church. Does the song or poem you have on your profile as the Devil being your first love Is it true? Does he really bring you the lasting happiness and fulfilment that you desire ?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Shadow Wolf you say your not a Christian. Yet you seem much interested in the ways of the church. Does the song or poem you have on your profile as the Devil being your first love Is it true? Does he really bring you the lasting happiness and fulfilment that you desire ?

I just told you the song is not taking such things seriously amd you ask me that? This song is so tongue-in-cheek it mentions the incantation to summon Satan is "yabba dabba Satan - you have to yell it like a Flintstone."
As for the rest, I was a Christian. Now I'm not. Since I left, and life has been getting better. And better. I'm obtaining goals and aspirations. I'm going places, and going to more. Been nice.
As for this topic, dress and attire is a funny thing to me. Really nothing more than clothes. Pieces of fabric to help us better survive our environment. But we silly apes put such a silly level of emphasis on it. Its even more odd when worshippers of a man who took a life of poverty and demanded it of those following him put a huge emphasis on nice clothing. Even despite messages of having rewards now here on Earth and teaching the poor lady gave more with her meager tithing than wealthy tithers who can afford it.

 

[Prim969]

I just told you the song is not taking such things seriously amd you ask me that? This song is so tongue-in-cheek it mentions the incantation to summon Satan is "yabba dabba Satan - you have to yell it like a Flintstone."
As for the rest, I was a Christian. Now I'm not. Since I left, and life has been getting better. And better. I'm obtaining goals and aspirations. I'm going places, and going to more. Been nice.
As for this topic, dress and attire is a funny thing to me. Really nothing more than clothes. Pieces of fabric to help us better survive our environment. But we silly apes put such a silly level of emphasis on it. Its even more odd when worshippers of a man who took a life of poverty and demanded it of those following him put a huge emphasis on nice clothing. Even despite messages of having rewards now here on Earth and teaching the poor lady gave more with her meager tithing than wealthy tithers who can afford it.

Shadow Wolf thank you . I guess I was always some curious about the song and what it meant . A little tongue & cheek you say : ) Ok. As to the yabba flintstones. I did find. Some funny. The Stone Age people’s cartoon and they be fully human too and not ape : ) Ok thank you for your enlightenment of the dress attire. I guess there is a time to wear and a time to not at all.

 

[Vee]

I never understood this. It always struck me as a bit of vanity. I don't know where this started, either. I can't imagine God cares what you are wearing, and it shouldn't matter to people what you wear as long as it's reasonable. The first Christians were poor people and slaves so I can imagine that they were a dirty bunch wearing rags. But these were Jesus' best friends.

"1 My brothers and sisters, practice your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ by not favoring one person over another. 2 For example, two men come to your worship service. One man is wearing gold rings and fine clothes; the other man, who is poor, is wearing shabby clothes. 3 Suppose you give special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say to him, “Please have a seat.” But you say to the poor man, “Stand over there,” or “Sit on the floor at my feet.” 4 Aren’t you discriminating against people and using a corrupt standard to make judgments?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters! Didn’t God choose poor people in the world to become rich in faith and to receive the kingdom that he promised to those who love him? 6 Yet, you show no respect to poor people. Don’t rich people oppress you and drag you into court? 7 Don’t they curse the good name of Jesus, the name that was used to bless you?" - 2 James 2:1-7

Normally a religious event entails a certain degree of formality. It doesn't mean people have to dress expensively, on the contrary. But as a matter of respect, clean and discrete clothes are expected in most places of worship.
Different situations require different images. I wouldn't show up in my pajama to a wedding and I wouldn't practice sports in a long skirt and high heels. We dress according to the occasion, right? Some might be against that concept because they want to do whatever they want and dress like they feel like, blahblahblah, and they might have a very good point, but at the moment we live in a world where our image passes on a message. Sometimes that's very unfair to judge the book by it's cover, but it is reality and we have to live with it the best we can.

 

[Left Coast]

Thank you for that, it helps me to see where you are coming from.

Just a couple of points....
Faith is a matter between any person and God. What we choose to believe us up to us. We have free will and our choices are not determined by God but by ourselves. That way we can't blame anyone but ourselves for how it all turns out....can we?

Incorrect. I've been over this quite a few times here at RF, but no, we don't choose what we believe. We believe what we are convinced is true. We can't just wake up and change beliefs. "Free will" is a misnomer.

I had a feeling that the LGBTQ issues would surface somewhere in there. Though we do have those of the LGBTQ community in our ranks....they just cannot be practicing their sexual preferences. Its a sacrifice that they are willing to make however. Not having sex is something many heterosexuals have to deal with too.

Morality is dictated by God and he reserves sexual activity to males and females in a sanctioned marriage arrangement, with the intention or hope of producing children. SS couples cannot have a scriptural marriage and they cannot naturally produce children. Nature teaches us that we need both sexes to reproduce. And unless you are "married" in God's eyes, if you are sexually active, you are guilty of fornication....no matter what gender you are. Its a moral issue.

I'm aware of your organization's teaching on the subject, since I just said I disagreed with it, so I'm not sure why the recap was necessary. I was celibate, for years, as part of the churches I mentioned. Indeed it is a moral issue, you're just on the wrong side IMHO.

The near universal position of "Christian" churches is all pretty much the same in my experience.

Including JWs, as we just covered.

I have been on both sides of that story a few times with family members who were disfellowshipped at different times....unless you have access to both sides, you cannot judge.

Believe it or not, this isn't my first rodeo, Deeje. I've had access to both sides as well. You seem to have difficulty accepting that someone could have that access and decline to be part of your religion. But it's true regardless. My family is quite happy to be part of a different version of Christianity that they see as...drumroll please...more Biblically accurate than the Witnesses. And they have their own prodigal son stories of falling away and finding grace and forgiveness through a group of believers. Believe it or not, Witnesses don't have a monopoly on that.

And I'm happy to be openly gay, living with my loving boyfriend rather than being closeted and miserable as part of churches who told me my sexual orientation is sinful.

So again I repeat, we all have a story. Different people find happiness and peace in different ways. At the end of the day, I'm interested in believing what's true, and not believing what isn't. And in my opinion, JWs dont cut it on multiple fronts. Perhaps we leave it there for today?

 

[Left Coast]

I’ve found that most groups of Christendom are no different than the world, allowing sexual immorality and vice among their members (1 Corinthians 5). They certainly support their respective nation’s wars, with few exceptions (Quaker, Amish, ?), even killing their spiritual brothers because of some geographic boundary.

Yes, and other Christian groups would identify things you believe as false and unbiblical. I used to be Catholic, and they'd say your organization also permits sexual immorality, through divorce, remarriage, and contraception. I don't have a dog in that fight anymore, so I'll let you guys fight it out amongst yourselves.

Just how is that obedient to John 13:34? — John 15:14
And how do you think John 13:35 applies?

The verses you listed are rather vague and subject to interpretation. Which is why Christians can't get on the same page about what's "Biblical." And JWs, just like all the rest of "Christendom," think they're the special ones with the "Biblical" view and that the rest aren't "Biblical."

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Saint Frankenstein if the church followed your letter to full and did just that. I dare say there would be no Christian faith left nor anything of western civilisation as we know it today.. It be the very reason we have monasteries set aside for more enquiring minds and for those who do seek more.

Obviously the world would be very different, but Christians are called to live as citizens of Heaven first.

 

[syo]

In Orthodox Christianity, the church created dress code. They don't mention ''nice''. Men and women must cover their body. Long sleeves, etc.

 

[OtherSheep]

I'm not a Christian

That said, I do have to ask why you talk like you'd be the right person to know what Jesus did and why he did it, since you're not a Christian? Why would you even care what Jesus said if you don't do what He says? I'd really like to know this from all non-Christians... except that some of them are obviously shills.
I look forward to the day when the tares are gathered to Armageddon.

 

[Mitty]

Thank you for that, it helps me to see where you are coming from.

Just a couple of points....
Faith is a matter between any person and God. What we choose to believe us up to us. We have free will and our choices are not determined by God but by ourselves. That way we can't blame anyone but ourselves for how it all turns out....can we?

I had a feeling that the LGBTQ issues would surface somewhere in there. Though we do have those of the LGBTQ community in our ranks....they just cannot be practicing their sexual preferences. Its a sacrifice that they are willing to make however. Not having sex is something many heterosexuals have to deal with too.

Morality is dictated by God and he reserves sexual activity to males and females in a sanctioned marriage arrangement, with the intention or hope of producing children. SS couples cannot have a scriptural marriage and they cannot naturally produce children. Nature teaches us that we need both sexes to reproduce. And unless you are "married" in God's eyes, if you are sexually active, you are guilty of fornication....no matter what gender you are. Its a moral issue.

Which is why most people in civilized countries now support same sex marriage even though a biblical marriage "in God's eyes" is simply a personal agreement between two people to shack up together?

And as you well know biblical morality, including the ten commandments etc, is obviously just man-made anyway.

It is a choice though....you cannot be a Christian and a non-celibate homosexual. You have to choose one or the other. Your choice is yours to make....God will not force you to do anything against your will.

But Jesus said nothing about homosexuality nor why he loved one of his disciples instead of a wife, and why he asked his followers to accept that some men do not marry because they are so born from their mothers' wombs (Matt 19:12). And the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality either.

 

[OtherSheep]

That is interesting. When I was a Christian I was basically taught the same thing. And the world didn't hate me. I never knew any religious persecution until after I left the Church. And you're going to post a lecture about love when I already mentioned that is what Jesus instructed?

I have the feeling that the chosen and faithful are like Job... Satan knew whom to make war upon, and whom not to waste his time with. Why do people persecute someone who already failed the test? No offense meant. Going to church as a child doesn't make someone a Christian. Keeping Jesus' Commandments does. Many people who go to church never really think about what Jesus meant by anything... that is, within the framework of the true nature of Jesus. They build up theories from whole cloth, about what they want Jesus to be, not who He really is.

Non-Christians don't need a lecture on Christian love. The love of the world is a very different thing than the love of the Father who loves us only because we love Jesus and keep His commandments. The world wants love to be unconditional, IMO. But that's not what Jesus says is the truth.

 

[OtherSheep]

Which is why why most people in civilized countries now support same sex marriage even though a biblical marriage "in God's eyes" is simply a personal agreement between two people to shack up together?

And as you well know biblical morality, including the ten commandments etc, is obviously just man-made anyway.

But Jesus said nothing about homosexuality nor why he loved one of his disciples instead of a wife, and why he asked his followers to accept that some men do not marry because they are so born from their mothers' wombs (Matt 19:12). And the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality either.

That is thoroughly repulsive.