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Why are people so childish about their precious beliefs ?.

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
This mind set is the same with our belief systems, I feel that this is nothing more than the ego trying to protect itself, for the beliefs are made from the ego, and so need protection. If our beliefs were not from the ego, then we wouldn't need to protect them, we would simply let it go, no matter what anyone says, we would not care less, but the ego does care, and it will do anything to protect itself.

We can all get attached to our opinions, and not just in relation to religious beliefs. We tend to invest emotionally in our opinions and they become a part of us, so we can feel personally attacked when our ideas are challenged.

I think the problem comes when people start talking about their religious beliefs as if they were facts, which clearly they are not. There is a world of difference between saying "I believe there is a God" and "God exists but you are just too ignorant to see it."
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Why are people so childish about their precious beliefs being questioned,

Mostly, I have come to believe, because we humans have such a strong need for mutual cooperation and support that is often at odds with our own more individualstic urges.

Most beliefs have a role in allowing us to decide who to trust, who to disregard, and who to hate. Questioning them is perceived, at least potentially, as questioning our ethical outlook.
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
Questioning beliefs is fine.

When I'm called stupid, insane, ignorant, gullible, immoral, wicked or childish for my beliefs, I feel I'm within my rights to get annoyed. When I'm called those things under the pretense of honest questioning, I feel I'm within my rights to get even more annoyed.
 

Papoon

Active Member
Is believing you don't believe anything a childish belief ? Or just a strategy to avoid the inevitable ? Or like totally wise ?
Do I believe the sun rises in the east ? Or do I believe that the horizon is moving down ? Or is that just self evident ? Sometimes I think belief has got nothing to do with it, but other times I don't believe that at all.
I think I may be confused, but I'm not sure. Actually, some times I am sure, but not about anything in particular.
Sometimes I'm unsure about everything.
Sometimes this is funny, mostly I just don't give a ****.
Other times....umm..errrr...what was the question ?
 
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Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm more interested in the following question, personally:

"What does it mean to be "childish" and why is this term being used as an insult? Is that really necessary?"
 

s13ep

42
There's no such thing as non-belief, in fact, the term 'non-belief' is a result of childish antics in itself.

You can't have a non-belief, you can deny one premise, but you can't deny all premises, otherwise you're unintellectual.

You can't trade belief for knowledge, since what you know might be false and you have to believe in it's truth.

There is no such thing as non-belief, but there is such thing as being non-religious.

As for why is 'childish' being used as an insult, something needs to be attributed to the people thrilling off of their covert insulting behaviour and perversity.
 
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mystic64

nolonger active
Why are people so childish about their precious beliefs being questioned, after all there only beliefs, that doesn’t mean there true, or false, there just your’s, your precious baby. Just like our baby we don’t like anyone saying anything against it, and in fact we will even kill to protect our baby.

This mind set is the same with our belief systems, I feel that this is nothing more than the ego trying to protect itself, for the beliefs are made from the ego, and so need protection. If our beliefs were not from the ego, then we wouldn't need to protect them, we would simply let it go, no matter what anyone says, we would not care less, but the ego does care, and it will do anything to protect itself.

I feel that if we were not so into wanting to be right with everything we believe in, that the world would be a much better place. This whole world has been in conflict for thousands of years, all because of our wanting to be right, when in fact we are all wrong.

All that we can ever know is through our limited senses, we cannot know anything that is outside our limited senses. Because we cannot know anything outside, we can only know a fraction of what is outside, or perceived to be outside.

My whole point is that we really know nothing, and yet most of us think we do, and we are also so proud of knowing what they know, the more we know the greater we feel.

Everything we know is from conditioning and programming, plus genetics, we are really just a puppet controlled by the Source, or Consciousness. So next time you think you know something, remember, it was only because of your programming and conditioning that you arise to that belief, that is your conditioning to whatever you have been conditioned to, such as culture, you are not your culture, you are not your beliefs, you are beyond all that, you are the pure Source of Consciousness, the rest is just made up by the ego.

Our beliefs give us permission to feel "power". When you threaten our beliefs you cause us to feel "vulnerable". And the feeling of "vulneability" causes a fight or flight reation. Psycoslice :) , you have presented an OP that gives others permission to threaten your beliefs and thus you open yourself up to being caused to feel "vulnerable". Psycoslice, everything in your OP is a belief that is based on your personality programming and these beliefs give you permission to feel power (to feel safe). And what you say in your OP also applys to you personally :) . And what is fun is that you have placed your topic in General "Debate" so that we can we can "Debate" your OP which is about your beliefs and their validity :) !

I love your topic "Psycoslice" :) . I love your screen name "Psychoslice" :) . And last but not least, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones :) . What do I believe? I believe that this topic is fun!

"This whole world has been in conflict for thousands of years, all because of our wanting to be right, when in fact we are all wrong." What you have posted as a statement of fact Psycoslice is not valid. All conflict is based on a fight for "resources", most of which are limited for one reason or another. This is with one exception :) , there are some individuals that are just plain mean and they get their "jollies" by hurting others. Behind all belief systems relative personality programming is the battle for resources whether folks realize that or not. From there the just plain mean twist things (belief systems) into conflict.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
... if we could stop over-generalizing, that'd be greeaaat.
You must be new here. Allow me to welcome you to Homo Sapiens Sapiens. As you can see, amongst our many great talents are "thumbs", highly developed frontal lobes, an increased likely-hood of brain cancer, and the all-consuming urge to make blanket generalizations.

I hope you'll enjoy your stay.
 

s13ep

42
You must be new here. Allow me to welcome you to Homo Sapiens Sapiens. As you can see, amongst our many great talents are "thumbs", highly developed frontal lobes, an increased likely-hood of brain cancer, and the all-consuming urge to make blanket generalizations.

I hope you'll enjoy your stay.
He has a picture of a man with a burnt face, that looks quite maleficent.

He posts a childish joke with intent to trigger people of the against argument.

He is socially accepted.

The problem is that the many of the against argument are sensed as having a ridiculous belief, because even though they have an opinion on something serious, and there're many of them, they are associated with their, or those with, less intellectual belief systems.

They don't flaunt their egos in the crowed to incite laughter, and take a more serious standpoint - but some have primal or spiritual beliefs and urges.

The sense of 'ridiculous belief' is where this kind of attitude {i.e. Nietzsche and alike} stems from; they feed off of the argument presenting itself in that very sense {i.e. the mentioned childish joke}, and continue to drag this circus act along until they get their own way childishly.

Their own way, which is, my friends, the suicide of humanity.


This is all probably because they feel unfortunate in some areas of their own lives or are weak to words and feel the need to fit in.

If it was natural selection instead of Government-academic selection, they wouldn't survive; since there would be consequences for 'triggering' others.

They are saved from the consequence, even moderators on any forum accept their covert perverse behaviour; and therefore they build up this sense of ridiculous belief and use it to power their ego herd of maleficent, laughing men and women.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Thank you friend, I am glad you can see what I am trying to say, I thought I was out on my own lol.
You're most definitely not. I've seen this for a very long time. What's worse, I can relate to being in that childish state of belief as well, but I realized that with confidence comes silence. It's the gnawing and suppressed doubt that heats up the pressure cooker so it explodes. People with faith who are violent and aggressive about it tend to actually have very little faith. It's because they're not sure deep down that they have to convert everyone else or get rid of them. The more confident I feel about myself and my beliefs, the less I feel it necessary to convince anyone else.
 

illykitty

RF's pet cat
I wouldn't use the word childish but perhaps, defensive or aggressive in some cases?

Not just beliefs, but anything people assume to be true, normal or tradition, when something (or someone) comes along to shake things, some people shut down and become defensive. Could be sports, eating habits, customs, superstitions... Anything.

I'm not excluding myself from it, there's lots of things I had to re-examine and/or shake off... I'm not off the hook, but what's important is to have a good hard look and not just dismiss things straight away. And even if there is disagreement afterwards, to not get agressive about things which doesn't harm others.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
He has a picture of a man with a burnt face, that looks quite maleficent.

He posts a childish joke with intent to trigger people of the against argument.

He is socially accepted.

The problem is that the many of the against argument are sensed as having a ridiculous belief, because even though they have an opinion on something serious, and there're many of them, they are associated with their, or those with, less intellectual belief systems.

They don't flaunt their egos in the crowed to incite laughter, and take a more serious standpoint - but some have primal or spiritual beliefs and urges.

The sense of 'ridiculous belief' is where this kind of attitude {i.e. Nietzsche and alike} stems from; they feed off of the argument presenting itself in that very sense {i.e. the mentioned childish joke}, and continue to drag this circus act along until they get their own way childishly.

Their own way, which is, my friends, the suicide of humanity.


This is all probably because they feel unfortunate in some areas of their own lives or are weak to words and feel the need to fit in.

If it was natural selection instead of Government-academic selection, they wouldn't survive; since there would be consequences for 'triggering' others.

They are saved from the consequence, even moderators on any forum accept their covert perverse behaviour; and therefore they build up this sense of ridiculous belief and use it to power their ego herd of maleficent, laughing men and women.
I spend most of my time on this forum pointing out the absurdities of various faiths. Be it the idea that iron-age Israelites somehow crafted a boat that could take survive a voyage across the Atlantic or Pacific, that a Jewish guy whos' mom swore up & down to be a virgin rose up as the world's most disappointing zombie after 3 days, that the Earth was somehow crafted in seven literal days, that all the animals of the world (cept' the best ones, dinosaurs) were loaded onto some drunkard's boat after God had a hissy-fit to "save" the world, or anything to do with Lord Xenu..

However, in this particular case, it's the pot calling the kettle black. Psycholice is an anti-vaxxer who believes that medical science is harbouring some kind of retarded conspiracy and preventing the "truth" that vaccinations cause autism and other such complete bull****.

You'll have to excuse me for calling him out on his nonsense here.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Why are people so childish about their precious beliefs being questioned, after all there only beliefs, that doesn’t mean there true, or false, there just your’s, your precious baby. Just like our baby we don’t like anyone saying anything against it, and in fact we will even kill to protect our baby.
While there is some truth to this amusing assertion we should not get carried away with the analogy. That said, I don't think it is particularly helpful to call the beliefs that human animals carry around within themselves as being childish - though some indeed can be. I would suggest that distinctly childish ideas about reality are remarkably few and far between.

This mind set is the same with our belief systems, I feel that this is nothing more than the ego trying to protect itself, for the beliefs are made from the ego, and so need protection. If our beliefs were not from the ego, then we wouldn't need to protect them, we would simply let it go, no matter what anyone says, we would not care less, but the ego does care, and it will do anything to protect itself.
While it is true that we can intuit direct experiences outside of the usual purview of the ego from other areas of consciousness those intuited experiences are, necessarily, filtered through the ego. Ideally these occur through expansions of consciousness which also expands the awareness of the ego, but not the ego itself or egotistical tendencies themselves.

I feel that if we were not so into wanting to be right with everything we believe in, that the world would be a much better place. This whole world has been in conflict for thousands of years, all because of our wanting to be right, when in fact we are all wrong.
To quote Forest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does!" Personal reality is a odd combination of certainty, gleaned from experience, in an uncertain world that, at times, seems to be out to get us. The survival instinct is very strong and is far more primal than our ideas about reality. It might prove helpful to not confuse the two.

Likewise, generalizing about conflicts as being about one group inflicting their vision of correctness on others is pretty low hanging fruit and displays an appalling lack of understanding about both the nature of conflict and about human behavior itself. Conflicts are more often than not the result of long simmering feuds over very real circumstances that are sparked by the proverbial `'last straw that broke the camel's back' than they are about single acts that precipitate conflict. Who is right and who is wrong is often irrelevant.

All that we can ever know is through our limited senses, we cannot know anything that is outside our limited senses. Because we cannot know anything outside, we can only know a fraction of what is outside, or perceived to be outside.
If you are really going to park your truck on this point why would you call such a limited condition childish? Don`t you think doing so is somewhat childish?

My whole point is that we really know nothing, and yet most of us think we do, and we are also so proud of knowing what they know, the more we know the greater we feel.
In theory we learn from our experiences, thus being more aware of the circumstances that form our personal reality may well make one more stable and less fearful. Knowledge can set you free, as it were. Perhaps the greatest asset is the embracing of uncertainty. If one can feel safe and secure in what appears to be a hostile universe that is out to get us one does not have to invest so much effort into elaborate defenses. So, I will partially agree with you on this point, no matter how clumsily it was worded.

Everything we know is from conditioning and programming, plus genetics, we are really just a puppet controlled by the Source, or Consciousness...
You left out experience and what we, in theory, learn from said experiences. We are not the sock puppet of "the Source or Consciousness", full stop. We have volition and exercise judgment. We have the ability to change our experience of reality if we so choose. We are imbued with consciousness, not it`s play-toy.

So next time you think you know something, remember, it was only because of your programming and conditioning that you arise to that belief, that is your conditioning to whatever you have been conditioned to, such as culture, you are not your culture, you are not your beliefs, you are beyond all that, you are the pure Source of Consciousness, the rest is just made up by the ego.
Again, this is such a mishmash of unconnected dots that it is hard to determine what to address first. Though I will grant that culture and conditioning can have a profound effect on the average person, none of us actually conform to the expected conventions. We are very much rebels in the machine, as it were.

It is a profound mistake to assume one is beyond the circumstances that they find themselves within and can generate quite delusional responses which can make dealing with said reality far more complicated. If you are in a given circumstance then you should simply try to appreciate what got you there and if you are unhappy with those circumstances, pool the resources required from within yourself, to get yourself out of those circumstances.

I am a champion of the poor begrudged ego. The ego is one of the most effective, resilient and pliable aspects of consciousness and its continued denigration is not healthy in terms of overall stability of said ego. Egotistical behavior is another beast altogether. I just hate how so many high-minded sounding human animals denigrate one specialized aspect of the psyche for another. I`d rather leave people with the idea that the ego is a marvelous mechanism that should be cherished and encouraged to expand its horizons within the loving embrace of its larger identity, rather than being some ugly duckling of the pristine Cosmic Soul.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Hmm... what I understood that his main point is that people should not take what's said about their beliefs radically.
It is not surprising that someone as reasonable as you are would distill his rambling meanings down to such a simple point. It certainly would have made the OP a less arduous slog to go through, if he had simply said so. :D
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
It is not surprising that someone as reasonable as you are would distill his rambling meanings down to such a simple point. It certainly would have made the OP a less arduous slog to go through, if he had simply said so. :D

Psy has a short temper by nature so he probably extended the talk about it so some expressions probably unintentionally sounded wrong. I learned from this life to first try to look at the point one has got to offer then latter look at the rest of what's less important, if not better ignore it. Even if he's had bad intentions, I ask of all of you guys to try to consider his feelings. Maybe something we don't know of forced him to say it that way. People only need to consider each other's feelings and this life would become a better place.

Please give him the benefit of the doubt and consider that. I think he's a good person at heart. I'll owe you one :)
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Psy has a short temper by nature so he probably extended the talk about it so some expressions probably unintentionally sounded wrong. I learned from this life to first try to look at the point one has got to offer then latter look at the rest of what's less important, if not better ignore it. Even if he's had bad intentions, I ask of all of you guys to try to consider his feelings. Maybe something we don't know of forced him to say it that way. People only need to consider each other's feelings and this life would become a better place.

Please give him the benefit of the doubt and consider that. I think he's a good person at heart. I'll owe you one :)
You have that right, Smarty_Pants. :) What you said here is why I muted my responses back to him. I think, overall, he means well. But, even here, in your wonderful response, we see something missing from the OP and that is empathy. Odd, eh?
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Mostly, I have come to believe, because we humans have such a strong need for mutual cooperation and support that is often at odds with our own more individualstic urges.

Most beliefs have a role in allowing us to decide who to trust, who to disregard, and who to hate. Questioning them is perceived, at least potentially, as questioning our ethical outlook.
Yes I see, but to question why, and to be so upset about it is childish, we are all like children huddled together for security.
 
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