Why are people so childish about their precious beliefs ?.

[psychoslice]

Our beliefs give us permission to feel "power". When you threaten our beliefs you cause us to feel "vulnerable". And the feeling of "vulneability" causes a fight or flight reation. Psycoslice , you have presented an OP that gives others permission to threaten your beliefs and thus you open yourself up to being caused to feel "vulnerable". Psycoslice, everything in your OP is a belief that is based on your personality programming and these beliefs give you permission to feel power (to feel safe). And what you say in your OP also applys to you personally . And what is fun is that you have placed your topic in General "Debate" so that we can we can "Debate" your OP which is about your beliefs and their validity !

I love your topic "Psycoslice" . I love your screen name "Psychoslice" . And last but not least, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones . What do I believe? I believe that this topic is fun!

"This whole world has been in conflict for thousands of years, all because of our wanting to be right, when in fact we are all wrong." What you have posted as a statement of fact Psycoslice is not valid. All conflict is based on a fight for "resources", most of which are limited for one reason or another. This is with one exception , there are some individuals that are just plain mean and they get their "jollies" by hurting others. Behind all belief systems relative personality programming is the battle for resources whether folks realize that or not. From there the just plain mean twist things (belief systems) into conflict.

Hey, yea I like that, myself I don't have beliefs, so anyone can question my supposed beliefs as much as they want to, I cannot argue because I don't know anything, I just share my thoughts that maybe right or wrong, my thoughts arise and are registered in my mind and then that comes out into this thread that I made, I had no choice in the matter, its all about having fun to me, busting bubbles and blowing bubbles lol.

 

[psychoslice]

You're most definitely not. I've seen this for a very long time. What's worse, I can relate to being in that childish state of belief as well, but I realized that with confidence comes silence. It's the gnawing and suppressed doubt that heats up the pressure cooker so it explodes. People with faith who are violent and aggressive about it tend to actually have very little faith. It's because they're not sure deep down that they have to convert everyone else or get rid of them. The more confident I feel about myself and my beliefs, the less I feel it necessary to convince anyone else.

Thanks for that, that just how I feel and yes I was once a childish jerk in a Christian church, I was glad to get out of that habit that's for sure, as they say, the truth will set you free, yea yea.

 

[psychoslice]

While there is some truth to this amusing assertion we should not get carried away with the analogy. That said, I don't think it is particularly helpful to call the beliefs that human animals carry around within themselves as being childish - though some indeed can be. I would suggest that distinctly childish ideas about reality are remarkably few and far between.

While it is true that we can intuit direct experiences outside of the usual purview of the ego from other areas of consciousness those intuited experiences are, necessarily, filtered through the ego. Ideally these occur through expansions of consciousness which also expands the awareness of the ego, but not the ego itself or egotistical tendencies themselves.


To quote Forest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does!" Personal reality is a odd combination of certainty, gleaned from experience, in an uncertain world that, at times, seems to be out to get us. The survival instinct is very strong and is far more primal than our ideas about reality. It might prove helpful to not confuse the two.

Likewise, generalizing about conflicts as being about one group inflicting their vision of correctness on others is pretty low hanging fruit and displays an appalling lack of understanding about both the nature of conflict and about human behavior itself. Conflicts are more often than not the result of long simmering feuds over very real circumstances that are sparked by the proverbial `'last straw that broke the camel's back' than they are about single acts that precipitate conflict. Who is right and who is wrong is often irrelevant.

If you are really going to park your truck on this point why would you call such a limited condition childish? Don`t you think doing so is somewhat childish?

In theory we learn from our experiences, thus being more aware of the circumstances that form our personal reality may well make one more stable and less fearful. Knowledge can set you free, as it were. Perhaps the greatest asset is the embracing of uncertainty. If one can feel safe and secure in what appears to be a hostile universe that is out to get us one does not have to invest so much effort into elaborate defenses. So, I will partially agree with you on this point, no matter how clumsily it was worded.

You left out experience and what we, in theory, learn from said experiences. We are not the sock puppet of "the Source or Consciousness", full stop. We have volition and exercise judgment. We have the ability to change our experience of reality if we so choose. We are imbued with consciousness, not it`s play-toy.

Again, this is such a mishmash of unconnected dots that it is hard to determine what to address first. Though I will grant that culture and conditioning can have a profound effect on the average person, none of us actually conform to the expected conventions. We are very much rebels in the machine, as it were.

It is a profound mistake to assume one is beyond the circumstances that they find themselves within and can generate quite delusional responses which can make dealing with said reality far more complicated. If you are in a given circumstance then you should simply try to appreciate what got you there and if you are unhappy with those circumstances, pool the resources required from within yourself, to get yourself out of those circumstances.

I am a champion of the poor begrudged ego. The ego is one of the most effective, resilient and pliable aspects of consciousness and its continued denigration is not healthy in terms of overall stability of said ego. Egotistical behavior is another beast altogether. I just hate how so many high-minded sounding human animals denigrate one specialized aspect of the psyche for another. I`d rather leave people with the idea that the ego is a marvelous mechanism that should be cherished and encouraged to expand its horizons within the loving embrace of its larger identity, rather than being some ugly duckling of the pristine Cosmic Soul.

Hi this is one thing I personally hate, a long reply, I am just too lazy to go through all your questions, but I will say that most of what you said I right, you are seeing things on one level, I am in the post seeing it on another level. Yes I myself can be childish, and I admit that, yea yea. Regarding the ego, the ego isn't even real, its an illusion of who we believe ourselves to be, it is generated by the mind, and through conditioning and programming and a sprinkle of handed down gens, so in truth we really have no will power, but that's another thread.

 

[YmirGF]

Hi this is one thing I personally hate, a long reply, I am just too lazy to go through all your questions, but I will say that most of what you said I right, you are seeing things on one level, I am in the post seeing it on another level. Yes I myself can be childish, and I admit that, yea yea. Regarding the ego, the ego isn't even real, its an illusion of who we believe ourselves to be, it is generated by the mind, and through conditioning and programming and a sprinkle of handed down gens, so in truth we really have no will power, but that's another thread.

Oh, good grief.

 

[psychoslice]

Oh, good grief.

I know, lazy as anything, I have never been a man of too many words, but I do appreciate all that you said, I can't really argue because there is a lot of truth within what you said, and my philosophy is the K.I.S.S principle .

 

[YmirGF]

I know, lazy as anything, I have never been a man of too many words, but I do appreciate all that you said, I can't really argue because there is a lot of truth within what you said, and my philosophy is the K.I.S.S principle .

I'll meet you part way, OK? How about, "When it comes to dealing with unknown reality we should be as little children and not too trusting that we have all the answers or get locked into given perspectives... ... and remember to play."

 

[psychoslice]

I'll meet you part way, OK? How about, "When it comes to dealing with unknown reality we should be as little children and not too trusting that we have all the answers or get locked into given perspectives... ... and remember to play."

well that's just it, many believe they know all the answers, and hence their strong hold to their particular belief system, yes to play is the answer, to play with what we know, throw it up in the air, toss it around, but not getting too attached, because there is always something else to play with, must like changing your cell phone every time a new one hits the market place, I don't do that, I don't even own one lol.

 

[Smart_Guy]

You have that right, Smarty_Pants. What you said here is why I muted my responses back to him. I think, overall, he means well. But, even here, in your wonderful response, we see something missing from the OP and that is empathy. Odd, eh?

I, ah, maybe?!

 

[Twilight Hue]

I wonder if people can become so childish about their non-beliefs too?

It's a little hard to. Typically it's the other way around squarely on those who are believers.

How does one get childish over something that isn't even generally considered on a day to day basis? Non belief is a bit like background noise of the mind for which there is really nothing there to even get childish over.

I will give some of the more flamboyant interactions in debate and protest reminds me of a typical kindergarten class in session full of pouty children.

 

[Papoon]

I, ah, maybe?!

. I prefer the perfectly frank to the perfect frankly

 

[psychoslice]

Maturity happens when you start living without hope. Hope is childish, the only way to become truly mature is to not project our hope into the future, into some heavenly home waiting for us, to ne truly mature is to live here and NOW. Maturity is in fact not even having a future, its living in the NOW, for there is no other place but the NOW.

We should learn how to be free from our need to have a big daddy figure telling us what we should or shouldn't do, again this is to be childish, the mature will take all responsibility onto themselves, not blaming a demon or devil for everything. To be mature is to let our self grow towards freedom, not imprisoned in some scriptures or belief, the immature are afraid of growing, they prefer to be afraid of freedom because their devil might grab them and take them away from their precious beliefs, and what would dad say ?.

This is how I see freedom, I am not telling anyone how to think, a mature person can do that for themselves, I am just sharing my opinion, my own experience, it may be for you or maybe not, its no big deal really, after all we will do what we are conditioned to do.

 

[Papoon]

Maturity happens when you start living without hope. Hope is childish, the only way to become truly mature is to not project our hope into the future, into some heavenly home waiting for us, to ne truly mature is to live here and NOW. Maturity is in fact not even having a future, its living in the NOW, for there is no other place but the NOW.

We should learn how to be free from our need to have a big daddy figure telling us what we should or shouldn't do, again this is to be childish, the mature will take all responsibility onto themselves, not blaming a demon or devil for everything. To be mature is to let our self grow towards freedom, not imprisoned in some scriptures or belief, the immature are afraid of growing, they prefer to be afraid of freedom because their devil might grab them and take them away from their precious beliefs, and what would dad say ?.

This is how I see freedom, I am not telling anyone how to think, a mature person can do that for themselves, I am just sharing my opinion, my own experience, it may be for you or maybe not, its no big deal really, after all we will do what we are conditioned to do.

Yes and no. Sometimes it is appropriate to let what is beyond you do the thinking. I don't mean believing and hoping. I mean standing aside and allowing. This body and mind are the product of something beyond me, something which preceded me and will continue when I am gone. The idea that I am in control and must make all my own decisions is also somewhat suspect.

 

[Smart_Guy]

. I prefer the perfectly frank to the perfect frankly

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what that means, but I gotta say, it sounds wise

 

[psychoslice]

Yes and no. Sometimes it is appropriate to let what is beyond you do the thinking. I don't mean believing and hoping. I mean standing aside and allowing. This body and mind are the product of something beyond me, something which preceded me and will continue when I am gone. The idea that I am in control and must make all my own decisions is also somewhat suspect.

Yes if you don't mean scripture then yes I would agree with that.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Maturity happens when you start living without hope. Hope is childish, the only way to become truly mature is to not project our hope into the future, into some heavenly home waiting for us, to ne truly mature is to live here and NOW. Maturity is in fact not even having a future, its living in the NOW, for there is no other place but the NOW.

We should learn how to be free from our need to have a big daddy figure telling us what we should or shouldn't do, again this is to be childish, the mature will take all responsibility onto themselves, not blaming a demon or devil for everything. To be mature is to let our self grow towards freedom, not imprisoned in some scriptures or belief, the immature are afraid of growing, they prefer to be afraid of freedom because their devil might grab them and take them away from their precious beliefs, and what would dad say ?.

This is how I see freedom, I am not telling anyone how to think, a mature person can do that for themselves, I am just sharing my opinion, my own experience, it may be for you or maybe not, its no big deal really, after all we will do what we are conditioned to do.

I believe you do have a point, but I also think that part of maturity is considering the future. We do not know what the future holds so it is wise and mature to be prepared for it as a precaution and to protect our investment. Sometimes we wish we did/didn't do this and that when it is already too late. It is true that the present is more important, but the future is not that much less important.

As for hope and the big daddy figure, I believe that it simulates our nature. We all started as little ones with no maturity at all and needed our parents, or who ever took care of us, to take care of us and guide us. Who knows maybe God is the one taking care of and guiding us now. When we were little ones we didn't think about how our parents, for example, were there for us sometimes and at some points we wanted them to just leave us alone do whatever we wanted. Things happened and we thought we wish we listened to them. There are special cases alright, but that's generally speaking true.

 

[psychoslice]

I believe you do have a point, but I also think that part of maturity is considering the future. We do not know what the future holds so it is wise and mature to be prepared for it as a precaution and to protect our investment. Sometimes we wish we did/didn't do this and that when it is already too late. It is true that the present is more important, but the future is not that much less important.

As for hope and the big daddy figure, I believe that it simulates our nature. We all started as little ones with no maturity at all and needed our parents, or who ever took care of us, to take care of us and guide us. Who knows maybe God is the one taking care of and guiding us now. When we were little ones we didn't think about how our parents, for example, were there for us sometimes and at some points we wanted them to just leave us alone do whatever we wanted. Things happened and we thought we wish we listened to them. There are special cases alright, but that generally speaking true.

Hey, I agree with what say, I should have made what I was trying to saying more clear, I am really talking about spiritual maturity, of course we should plane certain things for the so called future. What I think I am trying to say that too many simple believe in something and that is where they stay, just stagnating and hoping for a wonderful future for when they die

These are they ones who will protest violently when questioned, anything that disturbs their beliefs are taken as a threat, I suppose these are the fundamentalist and dogmatic.

God to me is all there is, I personally don't like the word, it just brings a bad taste to my mouth, I prefer to call this God the Source, not something that is looking down at us and judging everything we do, I just can't get my head around that way of thinking. I also feel that we are lived through by this Source, in fact we are the Source, we are like the shadow of the Source. But I do like what you have shared, and on one level that is true, and what I share here is on another level.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hey, I agree with what say, I should have made what I was trying to saying more clear, I am really talking about spiritual maturity, of course we should plane certain things for the so called future. What I think I am trying to say that too many simple believe in something and that is where they stay, just stagnating and hoping for a wonderful future for when they die

These are they ones who will protest violently when questioned, anything that disturbs their beliefs are taken as a threat, I suppose these are the fundamentalist and dogmatic.

God to me is all there is, I personally don't like the word, it just brings a bad taste to my mouth, I prefer to call this God the Source, not something that is looking down at us and judging everything we do, I just can't get my head around that way of thinking. I also feel that we are lived through by this Source, in fact we are the Source, we are like the shadow of the Source. But I do like what you have shared, and on one level that is true, and what I share here is on another level.

And what you say is considered and respected

 

[Papoon]

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what that means, but I gotta say, it sounds wise

There's more. Have your credit card ready.

 

[psychoslice]

There's more. Have your credit card ready.

Do I get a percentage lol.

 

[Smart_Guy]

There's more. Have your credit card ready.

Believe it or not, I don't have a credit card. Come on, laugh