Why are people so quick to criticise the Catholic Church?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is only through your own ignorance that you believe I give the RCC a "free pass". I have criticized the church on many occasions, and I have never defended the church's many atrocities. The issue was "charity", not what happened in Spain, which is why I didn't respond to the latter that further feeds your bigotry.

Read the thread title. The issue is why people criticize the Catholic Church; the only criticisms I have for the Catholic Church are fair and well-earned.

Why are you here at "Religious Forums"? If I don't like chess, why would I post at a "Chess Forums" website? If I don't like fishing, why would I post at a "Fishing Forums" website? So, why are you here at "Religious Forums" if you don't like religion? Seems that you're here to tell people how stupid they are if they believe in a god or gods.

At this point, I'm mainly here trying (mostly in vain) to avoid contempt for religion... and you certainly aren't helping me with that.

And you're a "Staff Member"? I used to be a moderator at another site, and one thing we had to be careful of is to not to be bigoted when doing our job. You, otoh, clearly cannot do that.

I am an agnostic if you remember, and we should be on the "same side", but I simply cannot do that with you because you simply just keep piling hot coals on Catholics for one. I don't belong to that church, and I haven't spend a penny on them in around 25 years (my wife does since she's Catholic), and there isn't a thing they teach that I agree with when it comes to their basic theology.

But why I often defend them is because of the anti-Catholic bigotry that you and several others spew on a regular basis. I have done much the same with some other groups as well.

The arrogant bigotry by some, including you, turns my stomach because it's so unfair. Yes, there are many things the church has done wrong, as have other churches, other religions, agnostics (which I am), and atheists. So, maybe it's time for you to take your hate-filled blinders off and see for yourself that you, or any group you may belong to, are no better than anyone else.

All I'm asking for is fair and equal treatment for the Catholic Church as any other organization. If any other group had kidnapped and sold 300,000 babies, they would be shut down. If any other organization had run workhouses of enslaved women anywhere in the Western world in the 20th Century, the people responsible - from the taskmasters all the way to the leadership - would have died in prison.

... but with the Catholic Church, not only are they not punished, but they're subsidized by many countries and even get a seat at the UN. It's ridiculous.

What have I ever said about the Catholic Church that's unfair? Every factual claim I've made about it is true; beyond that, it's just a matter of how we should respond: should a criminal's charity work absolve them of having to compensate his victims? I don't think so... and I don't think this for organizations that engage in criminal activity either.

It isn't "piling hot coals" to suggest that the criminals with the Catholic Church should be brought to justice, not shielded from it, or to question whether it warrants special privileges from the state that even other religions don't receive.

 

[Estro Felino]

"Bigotry" does not mean or imply "X" is a lie-- it means being one-sided, focusing only on the bad while ignoring the good, or vice-versa.

Well, his anti-Catholicism is motivated by bad things that happened in certain Catholic countries.
Anti-Catholicism is pretty natural, historically and culturally, in the Anglo-Saxon world.
As a Catholic, I don't feel bothered by it; at least in Italy, the RC Church gets fiscal privileges because it's a welfare entity; even Protestant Churches here who work as charities (and charities in general) get them...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, his anti-Catholicism is motivated by bad things that happened in certain Catholic countries.
Anti-Catholicism is pretty natural, historically and culturally, in the Anglo-Saxon world.
As a Catholic, I don't feel bothered by it; at least in Italy, the RC Church gets fiscal privileges because it's a welfare entity; even Protestant Churches here who work as charities (and charities in general) gets them...

Protestant churches don't get the Italian government to declare that the laws of Italy don't apply on the land that their denomination's headquarters sits on, though.

 

[Estro Felino]

Protestant churches don't get the Italian government to declare that the laws of Italy don't apply on the land that their denomination's headquarters sits on, though.

You mean the Vatican? lol
It's an enclave...
the diplomatic relations between the "Holy" See and the Italian Republic are really deteriorated and compromised, since the Vatican refuses to cooperate as for investigations on sex abuses, Vatileaks, and the Orlandi case. Nobody likes the Vatican here.


The squalor of the Vatican is so entertaining...

If you think that we could get to all the documents that are exposing all the financial scandals of the Vatican thanks to Francesca Chaoqui who had to sleep with Monsignor Vallejo Balda to get them. Thank you, Francesca.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You mean the Vatican? lol
It's an enclave...

Yes: that’s the term for the arrangement that the Vatican has been allowed to enjoy by Italy (and other countries, but mostly Italy): it gets treated as a sovereign state even though it doesn’t meet the normal qualifications for statehood.

the diplomatic relations between the "Holy" See and the Italian Republic are really deteriorated and compromised, since the Vatican refuses to cooperate as for investigations on sex abuses, Vatileaks, and the Orlandi case. Nobody likes the Vatican here.

And if any other church in Italy refused to cooperate on a sex abuse investigation involving its own ministers, the police would just go in, arrest suspects, and seize whatever documents they needed for their investigation. That’s the difference that I’m talking about.

 

[Spiderman]

A Catholic priest is no more likely than other men to be a pedophile.

The Catholic Church also does more to build schools, build hospitals, feed the hungry, and give shelter to the homeless than any other institution on earth.

That is always something to consider!

 

[metis]

It's almost impossible to respond to any post loaded with stereotypes.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's almost impossible to respond to any post loaded with stereotypes.

The Pope has defined the Italian government psychotic for its populist-nationalist policies.
That's offensive and from a supposedly apolitical figure.

 

[Spiderman]

The Pope has defined the Italian government psychotic for its populist-nationalist policies.
That's offensive and from a supposedly apolitical figure.

In other words, because it's too far right-wing?

 

[Estro Felino]

In other words, because it's too far right-wing?

Well...I guess he thinks it is. But Populism has socialism in it..

http://leozagami.com/2018/06/24/pope-francis-states-that-populism-creates-psychosis/

 

[metis]

@starsofirelight , you throw all this stuff out but don't provide any links, so there's no way any of us can double-check on your correctness. Also, instead of just coping & pasting myriads of accusations, why don't you do maybe a few at a time with links so that people can see where you're getting these from, check on their veracity, and then have the opportunity to respond to these accusations?

BTW, can you explain your "unsure" response under "Religion"? IOW, what are you "unsure" about?

 

[starsofirelight]

Absolutely

Jews in Italy under Fascist and Nazi Rule, 1922 - 1945 (Hardcover) (ISBN: 0521841011 / 0-521-84101-1)
http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521145947
_____________________________________________
The Vatican's Holocaust
http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html#Contents
Avro Manhattan (1914-1990)

also here are more links.
http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521145947
& http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=49779&page=2
& https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Visa_Project
& https://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Opinion/Time-to-confront-Croatias-hidden-Holocaust-314896
& http://www.academia.edu/1073706/THE...IAN_FROM_MOSAIC_RELIGION_IN_THE_XIXTH_CENTURY
Please reads Article 16 - in The Nazi Vatican Concordat.
Here - Notice Article 16 www.newadvent.org/library/docs_ss33co.htm
" Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath to the Reich - In the following formula: "Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it."
_____________________________________________
Also, here are several links that explain how that Tens Of Thousands of militant Muslim Terrorists joined The Italians and Germans in WWII. In exterminating the Hebrew race.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php
& http://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/library/reading_corner/Pages/Himmler.aspx
& https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/N...-Himmler-uncovered-by-National-Library-485539
& https://www.dw.com/en/how-nazis-courted-the-islamic-world-during-wwii/a-41358387
_______________________________________________________________________________
Also Hitler’s book Mein Kampf was translated into Arabic in full in 1963 and a second edition was issued in 1995. - Also - Luis Heiden, a former Nazi propaganda official, had prepared a pocket-sized Arabic translation of Mein Kampf that was distributed as a gift to Egyptian army officers.
Also, many Muslims and Italians toward the end of the war attempted or pondered the idea to help America and Britain in fighting against The Germans and Italians after being promised gifts and lands and property and goods.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Pope Pius XII never once publicly used the word "Jew" in any of his wartime pronouncements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat
The concordat was ratified on 10 September 1933 and Cardinal Pacelli took the opportunity to send a note to the Germans raising the topic of the social and economic condition of Jews who had converted to Catholicism but of not Jews in general
The Reichskonkordat treaty included an annex granting some protection to Jews who had converted to Catholicism, but explicitly defining the fate of other Jews as Germany's "internal affair," (( which the Vatican Center of The Church would furthermore have absolutely nothing to say )) Pope Pacelli PUBICLY showed no sign of seeing Jews or knowing about the existence of Jews - Publicly - as within the Catholic world or its circle of concern of the Vatican.
The Catholics and Muslims simply went completely berzerk- crazy, fighting for their god.
There is just too much proof to show - it would just simply take another Holocaust to provide a final solution and solve the whole matter for The Catholic Church and its Canaanite base / root. -- I, however, am unwilling to give them another chance.

 

[metis]

Absolutely

Jews in Italy under Fascist and Nazi Rule, 1922 - 1945 (Hardcover) (ISBN: 0521841011 / 0-521-84101-1)
http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521145947
_____________________________________________
The Vatican's Holocaust
http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html#Contents
Avro Manhattan (1914-1990)

also here are more links.
http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521145947
& http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=49779&page=2
& https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Visa_Project
& https://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Opinion/Time-to-confront-Croatias-hidden-Holocaust-314896
& http://www.academia.edu/1073706/THE...IAN_FROM_MOSAIC_RELIGION_IN_THE_XIXTH_CENTURY
Please reads Article 16 - in The Nazi Vatican Concordat.
Here - Notice Article 16 www.newadvent.org/library/docs_ss33co.htm
" Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath to the Reich - In the following formula: "Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it."
_____________________________________________
Also, here are several links that explain how that Tens Of Thousands of militant Muslim Terrorists joined The Italians and Germans in WWII. In exterminating the Hebrew race.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php
& http://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/library/reading_corner/Pages/Himmler.aspx
& https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/N...-Himmler-uncovered-by-National-Library-485539
& https://www.dw.com/en/how-nazis-courted-the-islamic-world-during-wwii/a-41358387
_______________________________________________________________________________
Also Hitler’s book Mein Kampf was translated into Arabic in full in 1963 and a second edition was issued in 1995. - Also - Luis Heiden, a former Nazi propaganda official, had prepared a pocket-sized Arabic translation of Mein Kampf that was distributed as a gift to Egyptian army officers.
Also, many Muslims and Italians toward the end of the war attempted or pondered the idea to help America and Britain in fighting against The Germans and Italians after being promised gifts and lands and property and goods.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Pope Pius XII never once publicly used the word "Jew" in any of his wartime pronouncements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat
The concordat was ratified on 10 September 1933 and Cardinal Pacelli took the opportunity to send a note to the Germans raising the topic of the social and economic condition of Jews who had converted to Catholicism but of not Jews in general
The Reichskonkordat treaty included an annex granting some protection to Jews who had converted to Catholicism, but explicitly defining the fate of other Jews as Germany's "internal affair," (( which the Vatican Center of The Church would furthermore have absolutely nothing to say )) Pope Pacelli PUBICLY showed no sign of seeing Jews or knowing about the existence of Jews - Publicly - as within the Catholic world or its circle of concern of the Vatican.
The Catholics and Muslims simply went completely berzerk- crazy, fighting for their god.
There is just too much proof to show - it would just simply take another Holocaust to provide a final solution and solve the whole matter for The Catholic Church and its Canaanite base / root. -- I, however, am unwilling to give them another chance.

I was sponsored on a study of the Holocaust in Poland and Israel in 1991, whereas we visited three death camps and numerous side camps. We had six survivors in our group, plus we met with both synagogue and church officials.

Your post above, even though basically correct, is nevertheless misleading. The churches, not just Catholic, were under threat, and actually Hitler and the NAZI's had less support in the Catholic community than in the Protestant community, and yet you don't mention the latter.

Also, the Catholic Church under the last three popes have apologized for the complicity in the Holocaust of all to many of its clergy and congregants, which most other churches have not done. Also, there is a priest in Poland that directly deals with who is the current pope to directly report on acts of anti-Semitism and other forms of hate crimes and discrimination, and this dates all the way back to the early years of Pope John Paul II.

Over the last 30 years, there have been many Jewish/Catholic meetings and ceremonies to show their togetherness, including some in my area. At my former synagogue, we had many visits by Catholic and mainstream Protestant congregants wanting to learn more about Judaism.

Times have change-- too bad you haven't.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A Catholic priest is no more likely than other men to be a pedophile.

But, historically speaking, Catholic pedophiles were more likely to be protected by Church leadership and even complicit police forces, allowing the pedophiles in the Catholic Church to hurt many times more people.

The Catholic Church also does more to build schools, build hospitals, feed the hungry, and give shelter to the homeless than any other institution on earth.

And sometimes, it uses those hospitals for kidnapping and human trafficking:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-baby-trafficking-Catholic-church-Spain.html

 

[SomeRandom]

A Catholic priest is no more likely than other men to be a pedophile.

The Catholic Church also does more to build schools, build hospitals, feed the hungry, and give shelter to the homeless than any other institution on earth.

That is always something to consider!

Perhaps. But no other organisation goes so out of its way to protect alleged pedophiles, thereby increasing potential victims.
It's not like it can say in a court of law, but your honour! We fed so many homeless people this year. Even karma enthusiasts would balk at such a crappy defence.

 

[Spiderman]

Perhaps. But no other organisation goes so out of its way to protect alleged pedophiles, thereby increasing potential victims.
It's not like it can say in a court of law, but your honour! We fed so many homeless people this year. Even karma enthusiasts would balk at such a crappy defence.

I'm just saying that it isn't only a force for evil, and the Church forbids molesting children, so the teachings of the Church are not the problem.

Yes, Bishops who covered for pedophiles were not being faithful to their duties as Bishops.

I just live at a Catholic Charities facility, walk to a beautiful grand Cathedral daily, been cared for at a nearby Catholic hospital, and get free food and free meals from Catholic institutions.

So, im seeing vital services daily that the Catholic Church provides to enhance lives.

This doesn't mean Catholics haven't done a lot of damage, I have just repeatedly seen examples of the opposite.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm just saying that it isn't only a force for evil, and the Church forbids molesting children, so the teachings of the Church are not the problem.

Yes, Bishops who covered for pedophiles were not being faithful to their duties as Bishops.

I just live at a Catholic Charities facility, walk to a beautiful grand Cathedral daily, been cared for at a nearby Catholic hospital, and get free food and free meals from Catholic institutions.

So, im seeing vital services daily that the Catholic Church provides to enhance lives.

This doesn't mean Catholics haven't done a lot of damage, I have just repeatedly seen examples of the opposite.

I'm not saying they are wholly good or wholly evil. Us Hindus rarely use such judgements in day day life let alone ascribe them to organisations.
But they made their own bed, no one else did that. They have to live with the consequences.

 

[metis]

But they made their own bed, no one else did that.

What do you mean by that [underlined part]? Which religious institution has not done wrong at times? And let me remind you that the CC hardly has a monopoly on pedophiles or trying to hide wrongdoings. Hinduism has had its own "issues" historically, so it's important not to forget that when blaming others.

Two wrongs don't make a right, so I'm not in any way excusing the many atrocities committed in the CC over it's nearly 2000 years of existence.

 

[Spiderman]

The Pope has defined the Italian government psychotic for its populist-nationalist policies.
That's offensive and from a supposedly apolitical figure.

And here I thought Italy was the Popes Holy land and you were God's chosen children!

 

[LuisDantas]

A Catholic priest is no more likely than other men to be a pedophile.

Despite being essentially forbidden from pursuing standard relationships, existing in environments that assure him a measure of privacy and authority, and often having frequent contact with many youngsters with no witnesses?

I have to wonder how you could know that.

The Catholic Church also does more to build schools, build hospitals, feed the hungry, and give shelter to the homeless than any other institution on earth.

That is always something to consider!

Not as a reason not to investigate and enforce accusations of pedophily, no it isn't.