Why Are So Many Creationists Conspiracy Theorists?

[Sunstone]

Why do so many creationists believe tens of thousands of scientists are in some kind of conspiracy to hide weaknesses in evolutionary theory?

 

[blackout]

I think, Paul, that people most often...
see what they are "predisposed" to seeing...
or what they are "led" to see.
What they are "invested" "indoctrinated" or "programmed" to see.
and scientists are NO different than anyone else.

Very few people live life free of "training" or "in-doctor'n'-ation".

I am pre-disposed to a world view...
that rather resembles a pyramid...
sure ... even with an all seeing eye there on the top.

Now just look at the american one dollar bill.
What do you see?
Who do you suppose "conjures/makes the money out of trees?"
and puts on their "seal" there?

I see a world of illusions...
and trickle down "cons"-"piracies"..
straight from the "top/cap stone"...
(OMG!? the Sun Stone?!LOL)
down.

OK. Fess up bro! R U a-top the world con(s)piracy ILLUSION?

Yes. The Matrix Architects.

Few do the actual conspiring....
but there are many "cast(e)" members,
many builders, and "mortar-boards",
constructing and supporting this illusory facade...
by vocation and tradition,

some hoping to make a name,
some a fortune,
some a positive difference,
and most, simply a living.

People usually go along with their "in-docrinations" and "in-vestitudes"...
instead of ever turning DEEP within for their understanding.

I prefer the "deep within" route.
It's MUCH harder to be led into the illusions of others that way.

(I rather prefer my OWN hand crafted illusions thank you!
I have always hated being told what to do and how I should believe.
How I ever got into that church mess later in life...
I will never be quite sure. Glad to be myself again.)

*********
One last question...
who generally "trains" & "employs" scientists?
Who bestows on them their black robes and white coats?
Who OWNS the "labs" in which they study?
Who in fact "approves" what they may and may not study...
(in those "owned" labs).
Who "guides" their "course" of study....
in those labs... that the common man... could never "afford" on their own?
Who literally OWNS the results of the lab employees...
and holds the RIGHTS/RITES of their findings?

Nothing personal towards scientists BTW.
In my view...
The world system owns and rules everyone.
Everything I have said....
applies to all but the occasional Matrix escapee....

So I hope that answered at least my perspective of
the improbability of "thousands" of "conspiring scientists".

I don't see that evolution flies in the face of creationism myself.
Both could easily be true. So why the big fuss?
(well atheists rather NEED it to be true I guess......
certainly a cause for motivation...)

Wow. That's true.
Find me ONE athiest who DOENSN'T believe the theory of evolution?!
Still I can find you many "religious" who do.

For me , it's all about the Body(physical)/Mind/Spirit connect.
The "science" lab rather leaves out the aspect of Spirit altogether.
Thus the findings there,
do not engage me much.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why do so many creationists believe tens of thousands of scientists are in some kind of conspiracy to hide weaknesses in evolutionary theory?

Excellent!

 

[Sunstone]

Why do so many creationists believe tens of thousands of scientists are in some kind of conspiracy to hide weaknesses in evolutionary theory?

Is it possible that tens of thousands of scientists, working over the last 150 years, could all be in a conspiracy to hide the weaknesses in evolutionary theory and yet not even one scientist or grad student in all that time has come forward to expose that conspiracy -- to say who gives the marching orders and how?

 

[Papersock]

I was the impression that scientists love disproving each other and being the first to prove another theory. The theory of evolution has survived through a lot of scrutiny.

 

[Buttons*]

A religious friend of mine once told me that she believed that scientists planted fossils all over the world... in order to dig them up to be able to say that religion was bogous. Needless to say, she got an earful from me. lol, that's not even really possible!

 

[Scuba Pete]

Interesting premise. Do we have figures on how many of these creationists ascribe to these views? Or is this merely a red herring designed to impugn all creationists with a broad brush?

Now mind you, I am not a creationist in the traditional sense of the word, but I am still a creationist by definition (God designed evolution and spoke the world out of nothing (Big Bang Theory))

 

[rocketman]

Why do so many creationists believe tens of thousands of scientists are in some kind of conspiracy to hide weaknesses in evolutionary theory?

Most of them don't believe there are any conspiracies. Some anti-creationists will enjoy making fun of the crackpots on the fringe but let's be careful not to paint them all with the same brush.

The most common view by far is that " ...creationist or evolutionist, have the same evidence; the difference is the presuppositions that are used to interpret that evidence. All reasoning is based on presuppositions. " as they say at AIG. If you break it down there is no claim of conspiracy inherent there.

There is a claim however that presuppositions can influence the bias of interpretations, and that peer-pressure within the scientific community may stifle consideration of alternatives, but these are generally aknowledged as human weaknesses and/or limitations and not full-blown sinister organised conspiracies.

Another confusing area for non-creationists is the teaching that evolution leads to 'immoral' things, which is sometimes taken to mean that evolution is an evil conspiracy. While some crackpots do actually think this, most creationists by this are simply refering to the old 'no absolutes' argument, ie: if we are just a bunch of atoms then it's ok to kill others. Again, not a conspiracy.

One more area where creationists have been accused of seeing 'conspiracies' is where they sometimes point out that science can take on a religious pattern. The only 'conspiracy' claims I've seen on this blame 'satan', not the scientists themselves. On a side note, when people like Dawkins say things like evolution allows him to be an intellectually fullfilled atheist, it certainly does look to most creationists that there is a religious pattern present. That's not their fault by the way.

There have also been some claims that educational institutions have conspired together to keep creationists from joining their teaching staff. I don't know if this is true or not.

Is it possible that tens of thousands of scientists, working over the last 150 years, could all be in a conspiracy to hide the weaknesses in evolutionary theory and yet not even one scientist or grad student in all that time has come forward to expose that conspiracy -- to say who gives the marching orders and how?

Unfortunately weaknesses in the theory are not often dealt with professionally which does add legitimacy to the curiosity of some, if not a suspicion of some agenda. There is a creationist view that mainstream science tends to band together and generally make light of weaknesses in TOE. This really reduces the credibility of the mainstream in the eyes of creationists. The fear of-course is that if one admits there is a weakness then they will become the new creationist "quote" star.

However, this fear is extremely unscientific and the creationist crowd know this, which further reduces the credibility they place in the mainstream. But they generally see this as human pride in not being able to admit the weaknesses, rather than an organised conspiracy.

Someone who is not afraid to do things scientifically regarding weaknesses in TOE is the anit-creationist immunologist DR Scott Todd:

"...one must question the interpretations of the observed phenomena and discuss the weaknesses of the model. Honest scientists are far more inspiring than defensive ones who scoff arrogantly at the masses and fear that discussing the problems of macro-evolutionary theory will weaken general acceptance of it. "

Most creationists see movements against them, not deliberately decietful conspiracies. If there are conspiracy theories mainstream science must accept it's share of the blame.

 

[UnTheist]

It's simple: Creationists twist the evidence to fit their view.


What weaknesses are you thinking about? And how does a hole in a Theory somehow invalidate it?

And why do you use the idea that "evolution leads to immoral things" to invalidate it, as well?

 

[rocketman]

Are you responding to my post UnTheist? Anyway...

It's simple: Creationists twist the evidence to fit their view.

So do they claim a conspiracy or not?

What weaknesses are you thinking about?

Ask Dr Todd.

And how does a hole in a Theory somehow invalidate it?

Do you know what this thread is about? :areyoucra

And why do you use the idea that "evolution leads to immoral things" to invalidate it, as well?

I used it to claim it invalidates the theory? When?

Lol, this is actually funny. You are doing exactly what I was saying is often done by the mainstream side.

 

[UnTheist]

Lol, this is actually funny. You are doing exactly what I was saying is often done by the mainstream side.

That's exactly what a Creationist would say

 

[rocketman]

That's exactly what a Creationist would say

Or what Dr Todd did say.

So are you going to address the OP or what?

 

[UnTheist]

Because they want Evolution to be false. Simple as that.

 

[blackout]

In retrospect I think that I really did not answer the question that was raised.

"conspiracy theory" is an area where I have been personally,derogatively knee jerked around by people. It's like "conspiracy theory" is some kind of "dirty label" that automatically nullifies anything you have to say, before you even begin saying it. It's like some "wacko" label. I'm still sensitive about it. Though less so as time goes by.
"evolution theory" is a subject I truly know little about, have heard contradictory stuff over the years from varied sources , which makes me wonder, yet I hold no opinion, and no bias or leaning because I really don't know enough to "know".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would like to clarify...

In my original post,
more than questioning science or evolution,
I was questioning the way we look at the world,
in general,
and WHY we look at the world the way we do.

I truly wonder how much of our societal change,
comes through true "evolution",
and how much through well planned engineering,
by people who enjoy the "power seats" in the world.
(and want to keep furthuring their own agendas).

It was more my reaction to your question I guess...
than an answer to it.

I'm sorry if I came off badly.
I fear that I did.
I never want good, hard working people,
to feel that I am slighting them,
or their life's work.
Scientists NO DIFFERENT.

We're all in the same boat.

(my boat just happens to include a 3 and 4 year old yelling in my ears as I try to type this.
I hope I have not just "capsized" myself further......)

 

[Sunstone]

**ADMIN POST**

Please keep in mind that there are people of good faith and intent on both sides of this argument and above all else refrain from personal attacks, which are against RF Rule # 1.

Attack the issues all you want, but if you cannot refrain from attacking each other get out of this thread now.
​

 

[Comprehend]

Why do so many creationists believe tens of thousands of scientists are in some kind of conspiracy to hide weaknesses in evolutionary theory?

I wasn't aware that creationists believed that but if they do I imagine it is for the same reason athiests spend all their spare time reassuring themselves that God does not exist and that they are intellectually superior to their theological adversaries.

They are insecure in their beliefs...

 

[Nanda]

A religious friend of mine once told me that she believed that scientists planted fossils all over the world... in order to dig them up to be able to say that religion was bogous. Needless to say, she got an earful from me. lol, that's not even really possible!

I had a friend who believed that, too. We got into quite the arguement about it... (Interesting side note: 12 years have passed since then, and now she's an atheist.)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Now mind you, I am not a creationist in the traditional sense of the word, but I am still a creationist by definition (God designed evolution and spoke the world out of nothing (Big Bang Theory))

No he didn't (String Theory).

 

[Scuba Pete]

No he didn't (String Theory).

Bangs, strings or whatever, I have met few people with my beliefs and even fewer who also claim to be creationists.

But I don't have a problem with a creator who designed a world SO complicated that we still haven't figured it all out, and most sane people doubt that we ever will.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Bangs, strings or whatever, ...

So long as you have no issue with substituting a creation event with an instantiation event.

But I don't have a problem with a creator who designed a world SO complicated that we still haven't figured it all out, ...

That's fair, since I don't have a problem with a creator who designed a world such that it has all the characteristics of a world not so designed. My issue with God is not that supernatural agency is impossible, but that it is simply unnecessary.