Massimo2002
Active Member
What's the drive for a human being or human beings to be hateful and mean for no reason or no good reason ?
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Why are some people evil ?
- Thread starter Massimo2002
- Start date
Ungodliness
Regards Tony
Regards Tony
Some people are broken and so they want to break others.
That's just plain old human nature for you
What's the drive for a human being to be loving and kind, often to their own cost?
You seem to be trying to understand something about human nature, and while the outliers (on either side) can help you to see some of the edges of that nature, if you want to get to the heart of it, you need to spend more time thinking about the rest of us -- the ones in the middle, neither all good or all bad, but trying to navigate life as best we can.
You need to accept a couple of central truths about human nature, however, before you can make much progress: you need to know that we are a social species (a eusocial species, as E.O. Wilson would say). We depend upon others of our own kind in so many aspects of our lives to help us to thrive, and we respond in kind for the very simple reason that if we don't, they may not. But that we are also capable -- unlike other social species on earth -- of defaulting from the burdens imposed by our social nature.
One good example is the vampire bat. These creatures really do have to feed every night -- their chances of surviving another 24 hours if they do not get a meal of blood is very, very low. However, we have observed that a bat that has not fed will beg from a neighbour back in the cave, and that neighbour will often regurgitate some of its own meal, allowing the other bat to get through. If, however, that neighbour refuses, other bats in the community notice, and are less likely to help that defaulter when they miss a night's meal.
The worker bee cannot collect pollen and nectar, and decide to hide some of it for herself before taking the rest back to the hive. A human worker in the field could hide some of the crop away for himself, and not share it with the community. The soldier ant cannot go AWOL from protecting the nest from enemies, even if her own life will be lost in doing so. The human soldier who lacks the courage to face the battle can sneak away in the night (although human rules usually prescribe a punishment that is as bad as sticking it out).
In the end, however, you're going to discover that there are no simple, 10-word answers to your questions. It is much more complex, and it requires you to be empathetically open enough to accept that we are all different, and don't perceive our differences to be wrong.
There are 3 really good books you could read to start getting a good grounding in human nature. One is a couple of centuries old, David Hume's A Treatise on Human Nature. More recently are Jacob Needleman's Why Can't We Be Good? and E.O. Wilson's On Human Nature.
Heyo
Veteran Member
First, there are no evil people. Only actions are moral/ethical/good or immoral/unethical/evil.
And most people act moral, or at least amoral, most of the time.
So, then why do some people act immoral more often than others?
Multiple, possible reasons.
1. Lacking insight.
Some people lack the mental capacity or education to foresee the consequences of their actions, or simply the knowledge that their actions are seen as unethical. The average IQ of a prison inmate is well below the average of the population, I've read of examples as low as 80. Some of these people shouldn't even be seen as moral agents.
2. Lacking socialization.
Most of our behaviour is learned in early childhood (and later relearned in puberty). The patterns established in those times are "hardwired" and very difficult to unlearn. Children/teenagers, who don't have moral guidance, may develop unethical/unhealthy behaviours that they keep as adults.
There are more, like psychopathy, brain damage, other health reasons, (perceived) necessity, etc. But I think the above are the most prevalent.
GardenLady
Active Member
Itt appears that some people are "wired" wrong from birth. We know so much more about brain science now than we did years ago. Yet there is much more to learn.
The distinction between psychopathy and sociopathy is unclear to most of us. Some say psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made. Some say it is a matter of degree. But there is no question that some show such traits early in life and continue in that path (cruelty, using others, lack of empathy) throughout life. There is some evidence that sociopaths/psychopaths are over-represented among CEOs and other powerful people.
Beyond this, are there those who just simply choose evil? Probably so. But why? No idea.
The distinction between psychopathy and sociopathy is unclear to most of us. Some say psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made. Some say it is a matter of degree. But there is no question that some show such traits early in life and continue in that path (cruelty, using others, lack of empathy) throughout life. There is some evidence that sociopaths/psychopaths are over-represented among CEOs and other powerful people.
Beyond this, are there those who just simply choose evil? Probably so. But why? No idea.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
Bad reasons? As in reasons they think are positive or beneficial but aren't in reality. No reason? As in not consciously rationalising at all but just reacting automatically to emotions and instinct. Subjective reasons? As in reason you and I consider bad or flawed but others see differently.
Incidentally, I don't think any of this defines any person as "evil". I'm not convinced a person can be fundamentally evil.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Because some people are spiritually sick.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And some people are psychologically sick. That has nothing to do with God or religion, nor is it cured by either one.
I ought to know.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
not accepting God or a particular religious doctrine; irreligious; atheistic: an ungodly era. sinful; wicked; impious; not conforming to religious tenets or canons: an ungodly life.
UNGODLY Definition & Meaning - Dictionary.com
Ungodliness is not the cause of evil. If it was then atheists would be evil and believers would all be good, but such is certainly not the case.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Arrogance in the ego drives hatred. Hatred exists for no worthy, good reason. A wanton drive for superiority, and power drives arrogance to grow.
Arrogance grows as often as empathy. Empathy is useful, but it's not the reason for it. Arrogance drives oppression, and corruption.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Low self esteem can also cause hatred, because when one hates oneself that can get projected outward onto others, if one is unaware of their hatred for self, or if they cannot separate self from others due to poor boundaries.
Self hatred usually comes from not being loved or being hated as a child. It is not an easy thing to get rid of. Believe me, I know.
It makes no sense to hate myself for a silly mistake anyone could make, what would be an everyday occurrence for most people that they would think nothing of, but that hate is so deeply embedded in my unconscious that it triggered by the slightest mistake, which is considered something that could have been avoided. The only way to deal with this is to be self-aware and when I realize what I am doing tell myself to stop.
I am sure glad that God is more merciful towards me than I am towards myself!
A deprived upbringing.
Bad company.
Cultural diktats.
Ignorance.
Stress.
Drug dependency.
Mental disorders
including psychopathy
&c
&c
&c.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I think genuine people can be bitter and hateful. I think hatred is different then that. Malicious hatred is extreme.
I can't imagine you doing that to yourself over mistakes. People find what they think are good reasons to do that. I think disappointment is as far as it should go. There are different kinds of hate though. Hatred as often meant is extreme maliciousness. You definitely ain't malicious.
I think humans make emotional errors all the time. I sure have and I've had to adjust my perceptions, my attitude and behaviour many times. Now that I'm older objectivity, and seeking to understand, and keeping boundaries like you say is the modus operandi I choose.
Life growing up is never a fair shot for a lot of people . Wisdom is not a given. We all have screwed up in the past. Hard lessons, influences, and lack of education on life matters, there's pitfalls a plenty. Some genuine people know not love of any kind through their lives.
You don't strike me as having to need a lot of mercy though. But I think mercy is apart of being human. We all need it.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I can't imagine anyone living a full life without stuggling at some point with hatred. I don't think it makes people evil. Evil is something far worse.
Psychopathy is relatively rare, but psychopaths do a huge amount of damage. Because they are so charismatic, it puts them into the unique position of people liking and trusting them... at which point they hurt you.
Psychopathy has many traits, but among the best known are their lack of empathy, curiosity about pain, inability to feel emotions except anger, complete lack of remorse, and complete lack of empathy and compassion.
Sometimes they are functional, and go into careers where their ability to function without emotional involvement makes them good at their job, such as being a surgeon. On the other end of the spectrum, you have your serial killers and tyrants.
They do not have a natural conscience. They can learn the morals that society has, but they consider themselves above those. This essentially means that if they commit a crime they will cover it up, but only because they know others consider it wrong, not because they themselves think so. It's why covering up a crime is NOT evidence that a person recognizes their behavior is wrong.
We are not entirely sure what causes psychopathy. Sometimes the genetic component is so strong that people are simply born evil, that they are "bad seed." But often they may be born with the predisposition, but it takes traumas to kick it in, such as childhood abuse, sexual molestation, and exposure to violence.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Studies have shown atheists to be pretty moral people.
Used in this context.
"... sinful; wicked; impious: an ungodly life. Synonyms: blasphemous, corrupt, evil, profane..."
Regards Tony
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rocala
Well-Known Member
If it exists it has nothing to do with religion, but may use it.
The nearest I have come to seeing it was as a child. I was friendly with two brothers. One my age the other a year older. They lived nearby with an older sister and their mother.
The one my age, had a great appetite for violence. The older one was a little less physical, but clearly enjoyed the pain and suffering of others to a considerable degree. Their father was, they said, from Ireland, this was mentioned by the older one as he loved talking about the IRA. This was the old IRA and was before the Provisionals. This was strange as their other passion was the British Army. In reality I think they were looking for anything that enabled them to have violent fantasies.
One day the father came to visit. He seemed a nice enough man but then he went out for a drink with his wife. A few hours later, the alert went out. The oldest son was locked in the coal shed, his brother took the key and disappeared somewhere. The sister went to her mother's side. Somehow a call had been made to a married sister who arrived promptly. I have never seen anything like it, one of the toughest families I have ever known was reduced to quaking terror. Their well drilled response made clear that this had been the norm.
We went our separate ways and they found outlets for their "evil" in football violence, racism and extreme right wing groups. What we call evil is the symptoms of things going very wrong in our society. Many have thought those brothers were evil, probably people thought it of the father. Who knows how far back it goes?
The nearest I have come to seeing it was as a child. I was friendly with two brothers. One my age the other a year older. They lived nearby with an older sister and their mother.
The one my age, had a great appetite for violence. The older one was a little less physical, but clearly enjoyed the pain and suffering of others to a considerable degree. Their father was, they said, from Ireland, this was mentioned by the older one as he loved talking about the IRA. This was the old IRA and was before the Provisionals. This was strange as their other passion was the British Army. In reality I think they were looking for anything that enabled them to have violent fantasies.
One day the father came to visit. He seemed a nice enough man but then he went out for a drink with his wife. A few hours later, the alert went out. The oldest son was locked in the coal shed, his brother took the key and disappeared somewhere. The sister went to her mother's side. Somehow a call had been made to a married sister who arrived promptly. I have never seen anything like it, one of the toughest families I have ever known was reduced to quaking terror. Their well drilled response made clear that this had been the norm.
We went our separate ways and they found outlets for their "evil" in football violence, racism and extreme right wing groups. What we call evil is the symptoms of things going very wrong in our society. Many have thought those brothers were evil, probably people thought it of the father. Who knows how far back it goes?