Why Are U.S. Police So Bad?

[PureX]

I came across this video the other day and was surprised by the amount of real, relevant information of contained about the history of policing in the U.S. and how that has led to the current horrible statistics related to police incompetence and misconduct and the very real danger this poses to the citizenry.

It's a little long put is PACKED with excellent information directly related to how the problem started and why it persists. Skip to 4:10 if you want to jump past the unfortunate obligatory infomercial that come with so much YouTube content these days.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The purpose of police is to subjugate people under rule of law. Not protect them, although they will if the law allows such protection.

@Revoltingest might like this thread.

 

[sun rise]

We read and see stories over and over again about cops behaving badly and committing crimes. That some cops are bad is a given considering that there are bad eggs in every job. The problem to me is the tolerance for misdeeds on the part of other cops and government which extends to spending millions of dollars to atone for some misdeed rather than trying to correct the problem.

 

[metis]

No doubt, some are bad, and in some cases it may relate to especially some young men or women who want to dominate.

 

[Revoltingest]

The purpose of police is to subjugate people under rule of law. Not protect them, although they will if the law allows such protection.

@Revoltingest might like this thread.

I don't see the purpose of cops as subjugation.
Sure, that happens. But the cops' role is different,
ambiguous, & evolving (I hope).
Note that SCOTUS has even ruled (Castle Rock
v Gonzales) that cops have no duty to protect
anyone (not in their custody).

 

[Stevicus]

I came across this video the other day and was surprised by the amount of real, relevant information of contained about the history of policing in the U.S. and how that has led to the current horrible statistics related to police incompetence and misconduct and the very real danger this poses to the citizenry.

It's a little long put is PACKED with excellent information directly related to how the problem started and why it persists. Skip to 4:10 if you want to jump past the unfortunate obligatory infomercial that come with so much YouTube content these days.

No time to watch a video right now, but I would say a major reason why cops are so bad is because society allows them to be. Moreover, our popular culture often champions the cause of rogue cops (think Dirty Harry or other such tough cop/vigilante personas out there). But the main problem is a lack of oversight by the civilian authorities who are supposed to supervise the police and deal with any misconduct. If they routinely give them a pass or refuse to be transparent in their investigations of police, then that's when they lose the confidence of the public.

For example, in the George Floyd case, the riots didn't happen because a cop murdered George Floyd. They happened because he murdered George Floyd and the civil authorities DRAGGED THEIR FEET AND WAITED DAYS before charging him with a crime. He should have been charged with a crime within 60 seconds of that video becoming public, but the fact that they chose to wait is where they went wrong. Things like that are a key reason why U.S. cops are so bad.

 

[Revoltingest]

For example, in the George Floyd case, the riots didn't happen because a cop murdered George Floyd. They happened because he murdered George Floyd and the civil authorities DRAGGED THEIR FEET AND WAITED DAYS before charging him with a crime. He should have been charged with a crime within 60 seconds of that video becoming public, but the fact that they chose to wait is where they went wrong. Things like that are a key reason why U.S. cops are so bad.

There's also a complex racism thingie going on.
Notice how cases like Floyd's become big news,
but only when the victim is black.

Spoiler: Parenthetical aside

I've quizzed people I know to name victims killed
by cops. They can name 1 or more black victims,
but none has been able to name a white one,
despite their being more numerous.

The media, blacks, & the left portray cops' killing
& otherwise abusing blacks as The Problem. This
works hand in hand with others being all meh about
a "black problem", largely unaware it's part of a larger
problem that afflicts them too.
One solution tried diversity. So now we have black
& female cops joining the "blue bloods", unjustly
killing & abusing civilians too. Requirements,
vetting, training, & accountability are still woefully
inadequate.

Oh, if you think I've spared the right my criticism, they
tend to support cops having unconstitutional powers
over us, eg, trying to make recording or insulting
cops illegal.

 

[PureX]

No time to watch a video right now, but I would say a major reason why cops are so bad is because society allows them to be. Moreover, our popular culture often champions the cause of rogue cops (think Dirty Harry or other such tough cop/vigilante personas out there). But the main problem is a lack of oversight by the civilian authorities who are supposed to supervise the police and deal with any misconduct. If they routinely give them a pass or refuse to be transparent in their investigations of police, then that's when they lose the confidence of the public.

For example, in the George Floyd case, the riots didn't happen because a cop murdered George Floyd. They happened because he murdered George Floyd and the civil authorities DRAGGED THEIR FEET AND WAITED DAYS before charging him with a crime. He should have been charged with a crime within 60 seconds of that video becoming public, but the fact that they chose to wait is where they went wrong. Things like that are a key reason why U.S. cops are so bad.

Yes, but there are a number of reasons why no one has been demanding better policing, including the police, themselves. We’ve been habituated from the start not to expect them to “protect and serve” the citizenry. Mostly because that was not why civil policing was instituted. And it was never their actual job. It should have been, but it wasn’t. And as a result the citizenry mostly had to protect themselves. Which then spawned this whole American obsession with guns and violent retribution for the smallest infractions by others.

The police in this country are an age old reflection of their original design. Which was intended to protect the property of the wealthy, including human property, and to keep the common rabble under relative control. And for the most part that is still what they do. They are not the servants of the people because they never were. They are their ‘overseers’. And as the common people turned more and more to guns and violence to protect themselves, the police became more and more militarized, too. Because they still see themselves as our ‘overseers’. Not our servant protectors.

Notice that in nearly every instance of police using excessive force against a citizen and killing or injuring them, it’s nearly always because the citizen wasn’t complying with the police commands. The first and most important task they are taught to enforce is compliance. “We are the police! You must do as we say!” Their first thought is not to serve the needs of the citizen. It’s to gain compliance. By whatever means necessary. And this is a direct holdover from the past, when they were tasked with protecting the property of the wealthy (including catching and returning runaway slaves, and after emancipation rounding them up as vagrants to be put on prison work gangs) and with keeping relative order among the common rabble. Racism and classism was built into their job. And it’s still a part of it.

 

[Stevicus]

There's also a complex racism thingie going on.
Notice how cases like Floyd's become big news,
but only when the victim is black.

Spoiler: Parenthetical aside

I've quizzed people I know to name victims killed
by cops. They can name 1 or more black victims,
but none has been able to name a white one,
despite their being more numerous.

The media, blacks, & the left portray cops' killing
& otherwise abusing blacks as The Problem. This
works hand in hand with others being all meh about
a "black problem", largely unaware it's part of a larger
problem that afflicts them too.
One solution tried diversity. So now we have black
& female cops joining the "blue bloods", unjustly
killing & abusing civilians too. Requirements,
vetting, training, & accountability are still woefully
inadequate.

Oh, if you think I've spared the right my criticism, they
tend to support cops having unconstitutional powers
over us, eg, trying to make recording or insulting
cops illegal.

Yes, this is also another part of the problem, since the media focus so much on race without actually addressing the actions and tactics of the police, along with the culture behind it. The media's approach to the issue implies that these heinous acts by police would be okay, as long as the victims are white.

The media has stood by and watched the War on Drugs without even a peep of discontent, along with producing shows like "Cops" which glorify police brutality. The Supreme Court has slowly chipped away at civil liberties, such as allowing more latitude on search and seizure, as well as qualified immunity and civil forfeiture laws, which, again, go virtually ignored by the media and the people (except for a few on the radical left).

Nobody wants to challenge government anymore. That's the underlying problem. And whenever anyone does challenge government, there are too many people all too willing to run interference and defend the government no matter what. I see this from both the left and right.

 

[Stevicus]

Yes, but there are a number of reasons why no one has been demanding better policing, including the police, themselves. We’ve been habituated from the start not to expect them to “protect and serve” the citizenry. Mostly because that was not why civil policing was instituted. And it was never their actual job. It should have been, but it wasn’t. And as a result the citizenry mostly had to protect themselves. Which then spawned this whole American obsession with guns and violent retribution for the smallest infractions by others.

The police in this country are an age old reflection of their original design. Which was intended to protect the property of the wealthy, including human property, and to keep the common rabble under relative control. And for the most part that is still what they do. They are not the servants of the people because they never were. They are their ‘overseers’. And as the common people turned more and more to guns and violence to protect themselves, the police became more and more militarized, too. Because they still see themselves as our ‘overseers’. Not our servant protectors.

Notice that in nearly every instance of police using excessive force against a citizen and killing or injuring them, it’s nearly always because the citizen wasn’t complying with the police commands. The first and most important task they are taught to enforce is compliance. “We are the police! You must do as we say!” Their first thought is not to serve the needs of the citizen. It’s to gain compliance. By whatever means necessary. And this is a direct holdover from the past, when they were tasked with protecting the property of the wealthy (including catching and returning runaway slaves, and after emancipation rounding them up as vagrants to be put on prison work gangs) and with keeping relative order among the common rabble. Racism and classism was built into their job. And it’s still a part of it.

Yes, I've been told as much by police officers I have known. Their main thing is to bring about compliance, which is why they come down hard as they often do. I was told this by police officers who were known to me personally, and they were telling me the best way to deal with a situation if I get pulled over or have any run-ins with the law.

So, yeah, the whole idea about "compliance" is true, that's what they're trained to do, first and foremost. But in a country where the Constitution and Bill of Rights supposedly have legal force, then we look to the courts and the political authorities to "oversee" the cops. When they fail to do so, then the voters have to take action. And again, that's ultimately where the problem lies.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I've quizzed people I know to name victims killed
by cops. They can name 1 or more black victims,
but none has been able to name a white one,
despite their being more numerous.

As always, best to ask an Aussie.

Justine Damond (sadly) was a well known case here.

Killing of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The purpose of police is to subjugate people under rule of law. Not protect them, although they will if the law allows such protection.

@Revoltingest might like this thread.

They don't even know the law and aren't required to.

 

[Revoltingest]

The media's approach to the issue implies that these heinous acts by police would be okay, as long as the victims are white.

Nah. Their intent is to air news using the old
"if it bleeds, it leads", ie, it's presented in the
way that gets the biggest reaction. Whitey's
problems don't result in demonstrations,
riots, protests, & politicians who cluck their
outrage.

The media has stood by and watched the War on Drugs without even a peep of discontent, along with producing shows like "Cops" which glorify police brutality. The Supreme Court has slowly chipped away at civil liberties, such as allowing more latitude on search and seizure, as well as qualified immunity and civil forfeiture laws, which, again, go virtually ignored by the media and the people (except for a few on the radical left).

SCOTUS has a mixed record on civil rights.
We have....

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/18/1047085626/supreme-court-police-qualified-immunity-cases

In Two Rulings, Supreme Court Bolsters Legal Shield for Police (Published 2021)

Supreme Court rules out suing police for Miranda violations

Justice Samuel Alito wrote in his majority opinion that “a violation of Miranda is not itself a violation of the Fifth Amendment.”

www.nbcnews.com

Supreme Court rules for police in two lawsuits claiming excessive force

The rulings are a further sign the court is unwilling to second-guess police officers responding to emergency calls.

www.nbcnews.com

But also....

Supreme Court makes it easier to sue police when criminal charges are dropped

In order to sue, a defendant doesn’t have to be found not guilty by a judge or jury and prosecutors don’t have to state that they wrongly filed charges, the court said.

www.nbcnews.com

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/23/999913516/supreme-court-restricts-police-powers-to-enter-a-home-without-a-warrant

U.S. Supreme Court tosses out excessive force ruling in loss for police

The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday revived a lawsuit filed by the parents of a homeless man who died in police custody in Missouri that accused officers of using excessive force in the moments before their son died handcuffed and shackled in a cell.

www.cnbc.com

Nobody wants to challenge government anymore. That's the underlying problem. And whenever anyone does challenge government, there are too many people all too willing to run interference and defend the government no matter what. I see this from both the left and right.

I see challenges.
But these run up against those who don't care,
& those who even approve of problematic policing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

but there are a number of reasons why no one has been demanding better policing,

Have you been paying attention?

 

[Revoltingest]

As always, best to ask an Aussie.

Justine Damond (sadly) was a well known case here.

Killing of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Aye, she was an Aussie, so I'd expect your ilk
to be more aware of her than Ameristanians.
But I also recall a youtube video of interviewing
Aussies at a Black Lives Matter rally about her,
& she was unknown.

BTW, her killer, officer Mohamed Noor, served
only a few years in prison. The city paid her
family $20,000,000.
He was a problem candidate from the git go.
But the city fast tracked him, & hired him
anyway. He appears to be a diversity hire.

Filing: Mohamed Noor raised red flags among psychiatrists, training officers

Report shows psychiatrists, officers had their concerns.

www.startribune.com

KARE 11 Investigates: Nearly 150 MPD cops with misconduct history served as trainers

Nearly one-third of the Minneapolis police field trainers have been disciplined for misconduct or named in lawsuits resulting in millions of payouts

www.kare11.com

Killing of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Aye, she was an Aussie, so I'd expect your ilk
to be more aware of her than Ameristanians.
But I also recall a youtube video of interviewing
Aussies at a Black Lives Matter rally about her,
& she was unknown.

I wonder if they were residing in the States. It got a lot of air play here, although even 'well known' stories are obviously not known in any detail to everyone. And people generally have less interest of general current events these days, the old man in me wants to say.

BTW, her killer, officer Mohamed Noor, served
only a few years in prison. The city paid her
family $20,000,000.
He was a problem candidate from the git go.
But the city fast tracked him, & hired him
anyway. He appears to be a diversity hire.

Filing: Mohamed Noor raised red flags among psychiatrists, training officers

Report shows psychiatrists, officers had their concerns.

www.startribune.com

KARE 11 Investigates: Nearly 150 MPD cops with misconduct history served as trainers

Nearly one-third of the Minneapolis police field trainers have been disciplined for misconduct or named in lawsuits resulting in millions of payouts

www.kare11.com

Killing of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just under 5 years from memory. For all that our cops can be problematic in terms of general attitude, I had to call them in relation to a rfceht home invasion. They were prompt and professional, and even quite human, which helped my kids in particular process what had happened. But even before that positive experience, it wouldn't have crossed my mind to think that calling them might have increased the danger to me and my family. Pretty gross story.

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder if they were residing in the States.

She lived in Minneapolis MN.
I don't know about hubby.

 

[PureX]

We read and see stories over and over again about cops behaving badly and committing crimes. That some cops are bad is a given considering that there are bad eggs in every job. The problem to me is the tolerance for misdeeds on the part of other cops and government which extends to spending millions of dollars to atone for some misdeed rather than trying to correct the problem.

According to the video, there are reasons for this. The main one being that it was never the police's job to serve and protect the citizenry. That was never why policing was instituted. Which is why the other social institutions have never charged them with doing that job, and then held them accountable for doing it.

 

[PureX]

Yes, I've been told as much by police officers I have known. Their main thing is to bring about compliance, which is why they come down hard as they often do. I was told this by police officers who were known to me personally, and they were telling me the best way to deal with a situation if I get pulled over or have any run-ins with the law.

So, yeah, the whole idea about "compliance" is true, that's what they're trained to do, first and foremost. But in a country where the Constitution and Bill of Rights supposedly have legal force, then we look to the courts and the political authorities to "oversee" the cops. When they fail to do so, then the voters have to take action. And again, that's ultimately where the problem lies.

The courts still see the police as our "overseers", and protect that status for them. Because that's what the police were established to be. And because that's what a lot of people in this country still see them as being. Especially the people of wealth and property that have no reason to fear them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The courts still see the police as our "overseers", and protect that status for them. Because that's what the police were established to be. And because that's what a lot of people in this country still see them as being. Especially the people of wealth and property that have no reason to fear them.

Actually the police had it's roots in the US as a force to hunt down slaves.

History Daily

historydaily.org