Why are we allowed to suffer?

[Demonslayer]

The bible states that the heavens/universe -as well as the earth -were all formed to be inhabited -and that we will eventually be given bodies with creative power similar to that which allowed the Word (who became Christ) to create the universe, the worlds, the earth and make all things subject to him.
That means we will eventually have the ability to affect major cosmic and planetary events by having a much more powerful and direct interface.

I've read the Bible straight through twice. Somehow I don't remember the part where it says humans will someday be able to create a universe.

 

[Demonslayer]

Santa Claus!

Close!

 

[Twilight Hue]

My body is my property. Let's not discuss my lawn. Please try and stay on topic and explain why suffering is wrong in a coherent manner.

The Goverment owns your body. Its not entirely your property.

 

[Etritonakin]

I've read the Bible straight through twice. Somehow I don't remember the part where it says humans will someday be able to create a universe.

Here a little and there a little.....

I'm not certain about an entire universe -but consider the following verses....

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Brackets mine in the following (creature=creation)
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature [creation] waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature [creation] was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature [creation] itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 

[Demonslayer]

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

This is the only bit I can see possible relating to us gaining some Godlike powers, but even that's a stretch.

Just asking because in all my days of discussion religion, I've never heard anyone postulate that one day we'll be given powers that will allow us to directly affect major cosmic events.

I'm so going to whip a meteorite at my boss!

 

[Koldo]

Try and follow along. I am wondering if in the event suffering, ie. pain, is done away with then is just the sense of pain removed or are all the events that could cause pain be done away with as well?

It could be either way. What relevance do you see on this question ?

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Then I say they are not suffering.

They are but in the inside they do not realize it.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Santa Claus!

LOL

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Try and follow along. I am wondering if in the event suffering, ie. pain, is done away with then is just the sense of pain removed or are all the events that could cause pain be done away with as well?

No more pain - Revelation 21:4-5; Revelation 7:16-17 - is in connection to mourning or sorrow.
Mankind will Not loose their sense of touch, and because of gaining healthy human perfection mankind will Not be in harm's way that could hurt oneself or another.

 

[Skwim]

Ok good, you have made the aspects of suffering clear. Now why is it wrong?

Because your definition of wrong, "not morally good or correct," (post 19) is the antitheses of right as I've laid out in post 82, which describes the nature of suffering.

suffering
the state of a person or thing that suffers.

suffers
1. to undergo or feel pain or distress:
2. to sustain injury, disadvantage, or loss:
3. to undergo a penalty, as of death: ​

So the question remains, is suffering desirable or undesirable state of being? If suffering is desirable

desirable

1. adjective 1. worth having or wanting; pleasing, excellent, or fine:​

then it would be right

right
1.morally good, justified, or acceptable.
synonyms: just, fair, proper, good, upright, righteous, virtuous, moral, ethical, honorable, honest;

wrong
1. the antithesis of right​

Now, if you can't figure out the negative transformations that validate the point that's too bad. What it amounts to is that the conclusion just isn't arguable. The upshot being, according to your very own definition of "wrong," suffering is wrong.

Have a good day.


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[life.period]

I am asking this question if there really is an eternal blissful afterlife. I personally am agnostic and don't know if there is a God and an afterlife. But if there is an eternal blissful afterlife, then why aren't we all born up there where we can live forever happy and not have any suffering and misery in our lives?

Some people value suffering. But others do not and are completely miserable. They resort to suicide. There is no reason for such people to be here and suffer like that. There is everything wrong with suffering. I have struggled with depression and my life has lost all joy and meaning. You don't realize just how much my life has been taken away from me.

Some people would say that we are here to learn and grow and that suffering is for our personal learning and development. If this is so, then that is no God at all. That is no loving caring God at all. You don't realize the torment that others go through. Many have lost all joy and meaning in their lives and resort to suicide.

There is no reason for this. There is no reason for innocent people to suffer like this. They are not evil people out harming and tormenting others, so there is no need for them to be here and suffer. They should of been born in heaven (the eternal blissful afterlife) and just stayed there for all eternity where they can be forever happy and never have to be suicidal and miserable.

The only reason why I think we are here and suffer is because this universe came about through random chance and that what happens to us in life just simply happens and nothing more. That there is no grand reason for any of it.

For sure there is afterlife

We are in test

In fact , Adam peace be upon him "our fathe " lived in a heaven " up "

Then he came to the earth .

Devil disobeyed creator

He expelled from heaven then he decided to expel Adam by deceiving him and taking him out from heaven

Devil success

Then Adam end to the earth

Now we are in a test we should pass it

We commit sins all the time

There is no person not commit sin

But Allah gave us key to remove
Our sins by asking him only for forgiveness


Once person become Muslims all his sins remove like new born .

Our sins make us miserable.

Disobeying creator is first one

If need money wealth just ask for forgiveness constiantly and you will receive it

Quran Holly :

, Ask forgiveness of your Lord, surely He is the most Forgiving:
He will send down upon you the cloud, pouring down abundance of rain:
And help you with wealth and sons, and make for you gardens, and make for you rivers.


Keep asking forgiveness till you recieve what you want ..never stop .

Worship him only .

Follow his path

Even wealth doesn't offer us happiness there are wealthy people suffer from diseases..

There is no lasting happy except in heaven .

Devil promise to mislead humanity

Devil will not let us be happy ..

 

[Etritonakin]

This is the only bit I can see possible relating to us gaining some Godlike powers, but even that's a stretch.

Just asking because in all my days of discussion religion, I've never heard anyone postulate that one day we'll be given powers that will allow us to directly affect major cosmic events.

I'm so going to whip a meteorite at my boss!

That really ought to be enough -though you might consider the others again.

What else would one do with an eternal body with power similar to that which allowed the Word to create all things?

Forever would be a long time to not be doin' stuff -and what could be done with forever besides creating, sharing and enjoying cool stuff?.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Because your definition of wrong, "not morally good or correct," (post 19) is the antitheses of right as I've laid out in post 82, which describes the nature of suffering.

suffering
the state of a person or thing that suffers.

suffers
1. to undergo or feel pain or distress:
2. to sustain injury, disadvantage, or loss:
3. to undergo a penalty, as of death: ​

So the question remains, is suffering desirable or undesirable state of being? If suffering is desirable

desirable

1. adjective 1. worth having or wanting; pleasing, excellent, or fine:​

then it would be right

right
1.morally good, justified, or acceptable.
synonyms: just, fair, proper, good, upright, righteous, virtuous, moral, ethical, honorable, honest;

wrong
1. the antithesis of right​

Now, if you can't figure out the negative transformations that validate the point that's too bad. What it amounts to is that the conclusion just isn't arguable. The upshot being, according to your very own definition of "wrong," suffering is wrong.

Have a good day.


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[sandy whitelinger]

Isn't what is good or desirable subjective? subjective: " relating to the way a person experiences things in his or her own mind." merriam-webster.com

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No more pain - Revelation 21:4-5; Revelation 7:16-17 - is in connection to mourning or sorrow.
Mankind will Not loose their sense of touch, and because of gaining healthy human perfection mankind will Not be in harm's way that could hurt oneself or another.

So, if I fall down the stairs and break my leg I won't feel pain?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

They are but in the inside they do not realize it.

Suffering is subjective. If I'm not experiencing it then I'm not suffering.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It could be either way. What relevance do you see on this question ?

Because trying to say that suffering will not exist changes the reality we live in dramatically. For example, if I fall down the stairs and break my leg will I feel no pain or just not enough pain to suffer? Or will my bone just not break. Let's try another hobby horse. All of the genetic defects that cause suffering are done away with; is this the end of evolution, ie. no more genetic defects? I could go on. Or I suffered because of the heat yesterday. How will that be dealt with?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The Goverment owns your body. Its not entirely your property.

Yet life liberty and property was one of the founding principles of our union. Property needs to begin with yourself or there is no freedom. A topic for another forum perhaps.

 

[Koldo]

Because trying to say that suffering will not exist changes the reality we live in dramatically. For example, if I fall down the stairs and break my leg will I feel no pain or just not enough pain to suffer? Or will my bone just not break. Let's try another hobby horse. All of the genetic defects that cause suffering are done away with; is this the end of evolution, ie. no more genetic defects? I could go on. Or I suffered because of the heat yesterday. How will that be dealt with?

And so what ? What's the matter?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

And so what ? What's the matter?

Well maybe there are some people who find joy in relieving the suffering of others. Are you going to rob them of their joy? How about the people who find pain to be exquisite? What a masochist to do then? Is it ok to knock you out because you feel more joy than I do understanding that you will not feel pain or suffer? As I said, I could go on.