Why Aren't you a Libertarian?

[Quetzal]

What we have now isn't nearly as libertarian as it could be.

I think that is a fair statement. I thought of another observation. I don't like how top heavy the government is in regards to the consolidation of power (Executive Orders? Eww!). So one might say "Well, wouldn't Libertarian policies be attractive in that regard?" And they are! But my fear is that a potentially oppressive government could be replaced by a potentially oppressive corporate elite that would simply dominate the market without any checks. Does this concern make sense? I would be interested to hear your input.

 

[Quetzal]

Declaring fewer wars (either out of rage or generous intent to fix others) wouldn't hurt either.

100% agreement, our military spending is out of control and this war machine is making people rich at the cost of American lives. No thanks.

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's start with you, then. What's your voting record? More conservative, liberal, or independent?

We all know you voted for Trump.

How do you do with local and state elections?

Have you voted for any liberal candidates or policies?

Far & away, most of my votes are for Libertarians.
I've voted for a couple non-Libs for Prez...McGovern (liberal Dem) & Trump (boneheaded Pub).
Neither was very libertarian.
But they had opposition which portended to be even less so.

 

[Nakosis]

I am a left-libertarian, and when charted out I'm very close to Gandhi on it.

I also charted out close to Gandhi, which kind of surprised me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Here is a link to the Libertarian platform.

https://www.lp.org/platform/

Sorry to those who don't like to go to links but it's a bit much to post the entire platform here.

I'm just curious what specifically folks dislike about the libertarian platform that would cause people to vote against a Libertarian.

I suppose the main concern would be a lack of political power of the party but wouldn't that mean you are more concerned about political power than principle?

I think that the libertarian philosophy is deluded in a number of important respects.

I remember a joke: "all cats are libertarians: completely dependent on others, but fully convinced of their own independence."

I find that the libertarian position often comes down to "screw the poor, go ahead and pollute everywhere, and give my future oppressors the tools to oppress me." No thank you.

I value freedom too much to be a libertarian.

 

[Sanzbir]

Because don't tell me what to call myself, you collectivist!!

 

[Revoltingest]

100% agreement, our military spending is out of control and this war machine is making people rich at the cost of American lives. No thanks.

I see it rather differently.
Sure, it's bad to waste money.
But there's an underlying moral issue, ie, that what we do is
so often very wrong when we interfere in the affairs of others.
It's not out of control....both parties effect policies which voters
approve of. They wage these covert & overt wars, & they get
elected & re-elected decade after decade.
I propose changing what we voters demand of them.

 

[Woberts]

Libertarianism feels more like a joke than an actual political ideology.

 

[Quetzal]

I see it rather differently.
Sure, it's bad to waste money.
But there's an underlying moral issue, ie, that what we do is
so often very wrong when we interfere in the affairs of others..

Nu uh! We can't be the bad guys!

 

[Revoltingest]

I think that is a fair statement. I thought of another observation. I don't like how top heavy the government is in regards to the consolidation of power (Executive Orders? Eww!). So one might say "Well, wouldn't Libertarian policies be attractive in that regard?" And they are! But my fear is that a potentially oppressive government could be replaced by a potentially oppressive corporate elite that would simply dominate the market without any checks. Does this concern make sense? I would be interested to hear your input.

Centralized government is inherently more vulnerable to corruption effecting
sweeping ill effects. Were governmental power more localized, voters would
have more power affecting their own lives. If tax money remained with local
government, they'd have more control over how it's used.
Limitation of corporate power....
I don't know what you have in mind, so it's not addressable.

 

[Quetzal]

Limitation of corporate power....
I don't know what you have in mind, so it's not addressable.

Me either, because if I get specific we create an over-reaching government and we are back to where we are now. I don't have answers here, unfortunately.

 

[Revoltingest]

Me either, because if I get specific we create an over-reaching government and we are back to where we are now. I don't have answers here, unfortunately.

And I think we might derail the thread if we get into the nuts & bolts of that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Libertarianism feels more like a joke than an actual political ideology.

It feels like that to me too.
But hey.....I look at the Republican & Democrat parties, & think.
I'd rather be in a comedy than a horror show.

 

[Nakosis]

I think that the libertarian philosophy is deluded in a number of important respects.

I remember a joke: "all cats are libertarians: completely dependent on others, but fully convinced of their own independence."

I find that the libertarian position often comes down to "screw the poor, go ahead and pollute everywhere, and give my future oppressors the tools to oppress me." No thank you.

I value freedom too much to be a libertarian.

Seems to me you give up the freedom to help the poor, reduce pollution and limit future oppression in the hope that government will take care of it for you.

You don't trust people to do the right thing but you trust the government to? Which is made up by people btw.

 

[suncowiam]

Far & away, most of my votes are for Libertarians.
I've voted for a couple non-Libs for Prez...McGovern (liberal Dem) & Trump (boneheaded Pub).
Neither was very libertarian.
But they had opposition which portended to be even less so.

Ok, thanks.

 

[Quetzal]

Seems to me you give up the freedom to help the poor, reduce pollution and limit future oppression in the hope that government will take care of it for you.

You don't trust people to do the right thing but you trust the government to? Which is made up by people btw.

The difference I see is politicians can be voted out. But imagine Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk dominating the entire market. You can't vote them out, you can't make them go away. A Libertarian government seems to celebrate these kinds of people. I find them terrifying if they are unchecked.

 

[shunyadragon]

Because.....oh....wait.....I am!
But I can think of reasons for most people not to be one.

I have libertarian views to a degree, but politically and philosophically I am Independent.

 

[Revoltingest]

The difference I see is politicians can be voted out. But imagine Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk dominating the entire market. You can't vote them out, you can't make them go away. A Libertarian government seems to celebrate these kinds of people. I find them terrifying if they are unchecked.

Bezos & Musk are feeling their oats right now, but things change.
Also, you can be a Libertarian, & oppose monopolies because
they threaten free markets.
Sounds like I'm still in recruiting mode, doesn't it? (Yes.)

 

[Revoltingest]

I have libertarian views to a degree, but politically and philosophically I am Independent.

I wager that most small "l" libertarians share your position.
But I'll consider this a win.
Another one rides the bus!

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Seems to me you give up the freedom to help the poor, reduce pollution and limit future oppression in the hope that government will take care of it for you.

You don't trust people to do the right thing but you trust the government to? Which is made up by people btw.

I trust more people to be more selfish more of the time, and that the 'freedom' gained by not having social governance is really freedom for corporate oligarchs to be greedy and apathetic. So the poor remain poor and pollutants spiral ever more out of control.