Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that the decision to impeach or not has already been made? Do you honestly believe that anyone in that hearing will change their mind?
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Why Bother With the Charade?
- Thread starter Wandering Monk
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- impeachment trump
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Just vote and be done with it. Who needs your theatrics! Narcissistic jerks all.
This is not about whether or not to impeach, it is about swaying public opinion and managing the political fallout of the already decided upon impeachment.
I don't think that many congresspeople have decided yet.
To a large extent their eventual vote is likely to reflect their perception of public reaction at the time. Another big contributor, of course, will be the expectation from their parties.
To a large extent their eventual vote is likely to reflect their perception of public reaction at the time. Another big contributor, of course, will be the expectation from their parties.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
IMO, there is more than enough evidence of what Trump said and tried to do, much more than was against Nixon or Clinton. I do believe he will be impeached but will not be removed by the Senate.
However, my crystal ball broke yesterday, so I'm not willing to bet our house on this.
Who knows for sure, but I would like to be able to see all the information and make a decision myself. For me an independent I may decide to be democrat from now on. How the democrats and republicans handle this mess will help me decide.
Optics. The Senate will likely not remove Trump so the dog and pony show I suspect is mostly for the upcoming election.
Also Democrats have spent the last three years leading up to this point. What are they going to do with themselves afterwards?
Yes and yes.
But even more important I believe there are a significant percentage of the American public who still don’t understand what happened. And these hearings and the trial that will follow will be one way to get the information out there.
It seems obvious that Trump has committed a long list of impeachable offenses, but it's still important to follow the process and do it properly, presenting evidence and giving him an opportunity at the appropriate time to respond to it.
They all angle for power.
The charade is useful.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
The Constitution defines those impeachable offenses as 'high crimes and misdemeanors.' Those are never clearly defined but are left up to Congress to define. The definition is malleable and therefore a useful political tool, but it has no firm legal basis.
Explainer: Impeachment depends on 'high crimes and misdemeanors' - what are they?
What process? Congress and Senate are free to make up the rules as they see fit for the most part.
Congress could vote today, Senate tomorrow and be done with it.
Congress' job is to present the facts, not try the president.
The appropriate time to respond would be at the senate trial.
Doesn't matter what the public thinks. They will not be trying the president. That's the job of the senate.
Where the public matters is in the next election. There's no point in public hearings except to effect the next election.
I suspect it is already assumed the trial will fail the attempt to remove the president. So the only benefit is in trying to affect the upcoming election.
First I think there is a possibility that a shift in public opinion could effect the outcome in the Senate. I think perhaps there is only a small chance of that happening, but it is possible.
And secondly, yes, I think there is a good chance these hearings and the upcoming trial could affect how people vote in 2020. And I think that is a good thing. It is good to give the American public as much information as possible in making that choice.
I think some Republicans are on the fence about it and would prefer to have Pence for president. I'm in favor of a proper process.
Stanyon
WWMRD?
-The democrats will impeach and the republicans will not, this seems already set in stone
The good thing is that all this will be visible to the public as it needs to be, witnesses can be cross examined and all evidence and claims weighed in on. I imagine it will be much like the Mueller report where one see's what they want and we will have mainstream news and celebrities telling us how we are supposed to think instead of weighing the evidence for ourselves, another rorschach test.
Hopefully the elected officials will weigh the facts for what they are instead of checking someones poles when making their decision, if they do not weigh them for what they are then I would vote them out regardless of party for they would be unworthy of office. I imagine this has been part of the gambit all along, attempting to shift public opinion before all facts are in to attempt to sway the 2020 election- no Russians needed as we have our own election meddlers.
Stanyon
WWMRD?
I completely agree with this
Ideally, this would all come out in the senate trial but I suppose there is no gurantee of that.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Yeah, let's vote PRIOR to hearing all of the evidence. What a moronic proposal.