Why can't god reveal himself?

[Koldo]

Santa Clause is a myth,i don't know how you compare it with the long history and prophecies which occurred as prophecied by god's messenger.

How do i compare both ? Simple: Both lack scientific evidence.
Can you choose to believe in Santa Claus?

Please elaborate the several manners.

Indoctrination, lack of a better explanation for certain phenomena, schizophrenia, and so on.

Very simple,Thomas addison was known to be stupid,and his nurture didn't change as he was expelled from school,still his mother was his only nurture.

What do you think,isn't enough Thomas Addison to prove Nature & Nurture to be wrong.

No. Intelligence is a quite broad attribute. You may be a smart inventor and yet very lacking on other areas.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

There is no such thing as "free will". Humans are wired to act in a certain way. Nature and nurture is what determines our character and decisions.

Prove it!

We are extremely complex beings. And one of the things that makes us so complex is our ability to reflect on our thoughts and our behavior and adjust them. We are recursive; we're constantly self-nurturing. So even if we can't change the hardware, we can change the software. And we are constantly being reprogrammed whether we like it or not. Even if free will is an illusion, our ability to analyze and adjust our behavior in pursuit of goals is real. So I still say, if you don't like where your life is at, blame yourself. (I blame myself)

 

[JustWondering]

How you explain 4 brothers living in the same condition of nature and nurture,but they got different characters.

How you explain many atheists lived in a family of atheism and grow on atheism,then converted to be a faithful person with a new characters.

How you explain a movie star of hollywood who have changed her characters by a new faith.

How she changed,the nature and nurture from hollywood and play boy,alcoholism and drugs.watch


We are responsible for our acts and we got our free will for every and each single second independent of nature and nurture

Everyone is different. Two of my oldest friends are twins. However, I can tell them apart based soley on the differences of their voices or appearance. One of them has a shorter temper than the other, and so on. Even twins aren't 100% exactly alike.

People can adapt and change. I never said they couldn't. I also never said that people are not responsible for their actions. However, our thoughts and what decisions we make are determined by our very physical brain.

To be honest, the free will arguement is very vaguely defined. What do you mean when you say people have free will? Where in the koran/bible does it say that free will is so important? If god is hung up on us obeying him then free will is a liability, not an asset. It would be like building a car with gas and brake pedals that only work when they feel like it. That wouldn't make any sense.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

The whole test theory doesn't really work for me. If a god created us, it would know our character. It wouldn't need to throw us into a messed up environment guaranteed to cause us pain and sorrow to determine how we would react. The only idea of god that really makes sense to me is that it doesn't care about humanity. It hasn't contacted us, doesn't want to be worshipped by us, doesn't have any special plans for us. To most people this scenario is depressing. However, if there is a god, this makes the most sense based on my observations of the real world.

Haha, this is weird. We agree to some underlying framework of good and bad. At the very least desirable or not desirable. It seems that in our evaluation of things we cannot help but assign meaning.

Anyway, I agree with you. God wouldn't need to experiment on us to find out what we would do. Perhaps test is a bad analogy. The purpose is to grow and become more like God. But in order to do that we need to have real choices. We need to really struggle and grapple with moral issues. We need to be 'tested' in new ways. In order to grow into our own, we need room to experiment and try things out. We need to choose right because we want to, not because God is standing right there watching us. This is the best way to learn for ourselves the things that God wants to teach us. Basically, we're learning the hard way the things God already taught us in heaven.

 

[Astravalon]

If he did, no one would be skeptical anymore, right?

My theory is that He is so incredibly gorgeous to behold that if He appeared our heads would likely implode at the glorious sight. Something along those lines. :yes:

-

 

[Koldo]

Anyway, I agree with you. God wouldn't need to experiment on us to find out what we would do. Perhaps test is a bad analogy. The purpose is to grow and become more like God. But in order to do that we need to have real choices. We need to really struggle and grapple with moral issues. We need to be 'tested' in new ways. In order to grow into our own, we need room to experiment and try things out. We need to choose right because we want to, not because God is standing right there watching us. This is the best way to learn for ourselves the things that God wants to teach us. Basically, we're learning the hard way the things God already taught us in heaven.

Out of curiosity, do you believe God went through all this to become a god?

 

[JustWondering]

The purpose is to grow and become more like God. But in order to do that we need to have real choices. We need to really struggle and grapple with moral issues. We need to be 'tested' in new ways. In order to grow into our own, we need room to experiment and try things out.

What is it that you think god is trying to accomplish? Additionally, when adam and eve ate the fruit of knowledge and became more like god, god was appalled and kicked us out of the garden before we ate the other fruit and became immortal just like god. From genesis it appears that god is not interested in humans being like him.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

God gave us 2 special gifts:

1- An advanced intellect that enable us to think on the abstract level and reach the right conclusions with the right information

2- A free will to believe or disbelieve, and if we believe to obey or disobey

God wants us to get to know Him and believe in Him by our own free will for us to live a happy life here and in the Hereafter

If we use the gifts He gave us we would not be skeptical

I would adjust this. I would say that we have this:

1- An advanced intellect and sensory organs that enable us to collect information about the world around us, and build a model of how this world works and to make predictions about it.

2- Ability to interact with this world according to our understanding of it in an attempt to impose our will upon it.

I don't really think we have a choice about whether to believe in God or not any more than we have a choice to believe if it's day time or night time. If you wake up after sleeping for a long time and you are in a basement, you might not know if it is day or night. You might not have enough information to decide. But you can't be like: Hah, it's night! I choose to believe that it is night! You can choose to try and obtain more information about it. Or sometimes you can sift through the data you already have and put it together in a new way that gives more meaning. For instance, you might remember that when you fell asleep it was 2:00 in the morning. Having slept a long time you could come to the conclusion that it is probably day time. You believe what your experience and your intellect tells you to believe. And when you lack enough experience to come to a conclusion, you are in the dark until you can gain more. You can come up with hypotheses and ways to test them, but you can't simply turn a switch from believing one thing to it's opposite.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Out of curiosity, do you believe God went through all this to become a god?

I believe that God is God because of understanding and adhering to the same principles of character that he is attempting to teach us. I don't really know enough to answer your question directly. I won't rule out the possibility. But I am inclined to believe that his experience was VASTLY different from ours. But honestly I don't know. However I would like to stress that (imo) God doesn't make the rules, he understands them.

 

[FearGod]

Everyone is different. Two of my oldest friends are twins. However, I can tell them apart based soley on the differences of their voices or appearance. One of them has a shorter temper than the other, and so on. Even twins aren't 100% exactly alike.

People can adapt and change. I never said they couldn't. I also never said that people are not responsible for their actions. However, our thoughts and what decisions we make are determined by our very physical brain.

To be honest, the free will arguement is very vaguely defined. What do you mean when you say people have free will? Where in the koran/bible does it say that free will is so important? If god is hung up on us obeying him then free will is a liability, not an asset. It would be like building a car with gas and brake pedals that only work when they feel like it. That wouldn't make any sense.

Our physical brain has nothing to do with our free will,our free will is our soul which is responsible for the decision making.

our body is similar to a car and the soul is it's driver.

 

[Thief]

Our physical brain has nothing to do with our free will,our free will is our soul which is responsible for the decision making.

our body is similar to a car and the soul is it's driver.

I like it.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

What is it that you think god is trying to accomplish? Additionally, when adam and eve ate the fruit of knowledge and became more like god, god was appalled and kicked us out of the garden before we ate the other fruit and became immortal just like god. From genesis it appears that god is not interested in humans being like him.

The story of Adam and Eve as told in today's version of Genesis doesn't make sense to me. I won't pretend to understand everything about it. However several things about the event are very important to me. I gain a lot of insight from books of modern scripture (The Book of Moses contained in the LDS Pearl of Great Price is the one I'm thinking of). Something occurred that resulted in a change in our natures. Anyway, somehow we are in a different state of existence because of it. Ugh, I can't get my head around it. Perhaps that is when our spirits and our bodies came together. Anyway, we have this carnal nature fighting against our spiritual nature. The Fall needed to take place.

 

[Thief]

The story of Adam and Eve as told in today's version of Genesis doesn't make sense to me. I won't pretend to understand everything about it. However several things about the event are very important to me. I gain a lot of insight from books of modern scripture (The Book of Moses contained in the LDS Pearl of Great Price is the one I'm thinking of). Something occurred that resulted in a change in our natures. Anyway, somehow we are in a different state of existence because of it. Ugh, I can't get my head around it. Perhaps that is when our spirits and our bodies came together. Anyway, we have this carnal nature fighting against our spiritual nature. The Fall needed to take place.

Try thinking of the Garden event as a step up.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Try thinking of the Garden event as a step up.

Haha. We fell up! I guess Shel Silverstein had it figured out.

 

[Thief]

Haha. We fell up! I guess Shel Silverstein had it figured out.

Don't know that book....but...
before the Garden event Man was a species...nothing more.
After the Garden event....everything had changed.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Santa Clause is a myth,i don't know how you compare it with the long history and prophecies which occurred as prophecied by god's messenger.

The long history is explained by peoples' desires which are satisfied by their belief, with or without evidence [and generally speaking, to them a total lack of evidence is the same as evidence].

The prophecies are explained as garbage, stated vaguely, that people choose to believe are actually real.

You believed vehemently in Santa Claus before you were told he was a myth.

 

[apophenia]

You believed vehemently in Santa Claus before you were told he was a myth.

Santa is clearly the work of Satan. I mean,come on, their names are anagrams. And Santa comes into your house to bribe you with love of material possessions on the birthday of Jesus. This is obviously Satan's plan. At that critical age, children are conditioned like Pavlov's dogs to salivate over coming gifts instead of thinking about the baby Jesus.

Santa wears the colors of Coca Cola and represents the Illuminism Through Big Business conspiracy.

And then there's my other favourite idea about the Essenes sacramental use of the red and white amanita muscaria mushroom (see "The Sacred Mushroom And The Cross" by John Allegro).

What do Santa and mushrooms have in common ? Red and white. Appears under the pine tree in winter. Bringer of 'gifts'. Associated with the 'birth of Christ'. Association with 'flying reindeer' - reindeer ate the amanitas, and their urine was collected and drunk to get a non-toxic form of the active ingredient (the raw amanitas are poisonous, but the poison when oxidised is psychedelic).

So both God and Satan have revealed themselves through Santa.

:icon_cool

 

[Heathen Hammer]

You're killin' me, man!

 

[FearGod]

The long history is explained by peoples' desires which are satisfied by their belief, with or without evidence [and generally speaking, to them a total lack of evidence is the same as evidence].

The prophecies are explained as garbage, stated vaguely, that people choose to believe are actually real.

You believed vehemently in Santa Claus before you were told he was a myth.

How prophecies are vague ? all of the prophecies were clear and amazing to be known for a person before 1400 years ago which wasn't known at his time,
i'll discuss each prophecy and to see your comments if it is a vague ornot becoming true.

one prophecy from a long Hadith about minor signs for the endind times.

((Music and musical instruments will be found in every home))

is it vague , isn't true ? just a sample of many other prophecies.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

How prophecies are vague ? all of the prophecies were clear and amazing to be known for a person before 1400 years ago which wasn't known at his time,
i'll discuss each prophecy and to see your comments if it is a vague ornot becoming true.

one prophecy from a long Hadith about minor signs for the endind times.

((Music and musical instruments will be found in every home))

is it vague , isn't true ? just a sample of many other prophecies.

There are not musical instruments in every home... You think they all have ipods in Somalia?

Yes, it's vague, and can mean or be interpreted to mean absolutely anything, at any time. Back in the times these were written, the ONLY way you could hear music was to have it played live on instruments. Many homes had members who could play. In order to apply this to your time you have to reinterpret a computer device to become a musical instrument, for example. A computer is essentially a cheat-piece here because they can essentially do anything.