Why can't some people accept that the Israelites were black?

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Can I ask a question? I'm not saying all Jews were black African but if Moses passed for an Egyptian wouldn't he be black?

 

[Levite]

Can I ask a question? I'm not saying all Jews were black African but if Moses passed for an Egyptian wouldn't he be black?

As I pointed out waaaaaaaay at the beginning of this thread, neither Jews nor Egyptians were, strictly speaking, black. They were dark brown, like desert-dwelling Middle Easterners (Arabs, Bedouins, etc.), which is what they were. It's true that there were a few dynasties of pharoahs that may have been Ku****e (Ethiopian) in origin, but they were not the typical Egyptian, and there is no reason to think that the Pharaoh at Moses' time-- whenever the hell that might have been, if indeed there was a historical Moses-- was one of them.

Also, can I just ask in general (not as a response to the above) why this miserable excuse for an idiotic thread has been revived?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

As I pointed out waaaaaaaay at the beginning of this thread, neither Jews nor Egyptians were, strictly speaking, black. They were dark brown, like desert-dwelling Middle Easterners (Arabs, Bedouins, etc.), which is what they were. It's true that there were a few dynasties of pharoahs that may have been Ku****e (Ethiopian) in origin, but they were not the typical Egyptian, and there is no reason to think that the Pharaoh at Moses' time-- whenever the hell that might have been, if indeed there was a historical Moses-- was one of them.

Also, can I just ask in general (not as a response to the above) why this miserable excuse for an idiotic thread has been revived?

there are different tribes/peoples in Africa that look different from each other and are still black African, I've met an Nigerian who was yellow brown skinned not dark dark brown and he is still black African. Ancient Egyptians were black

 

[Levite]

there are different tribes/peoples in Africa that look different from each other and are still black African, I've met an Nigerian who was yellow brown skinned not dark dark brown and he is still black African. Ancient Egyptians were black

There is no reliable evidence to suggest that any significant percentage of ancient Egyptians were black. Or any other color but the dark olive-brown of Middle Easterners-- which is what they were.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

There is no reliable evidence to suggest that any significant percentage of ancient Egyptians were black. Or any other color but the dark olive-brown of Middle Easterners-- which is what they were.

my uncle is yellow brown, there are Asian's and Arabs darker than him, he is still black of African descent. It's doesn't matter if their skin colour wasn't very very dark like some other peoples of Africa.

 

[fallingblood]

my uncle is yellow brown, there are Asian's and Arabs darker than him, he is still black of African descent. It's doesn't matter if their skin colour wasn't very very dark like some other peoples of Africa.

I'm not really getting this idea of being black because one is from Africa. At what point does one change from being black, to being brown? Or is it all based on geographical location?

Ancient Egyptians often were Middle Eastern. Yes, Egypt may be in Africa, but that doesn't mean it was inhabited primarily by black Africans.

I think the problem is that you are equating African with being black, which isn't necessarily true.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I'm not really getting this idea of being black because one is from Africa. At what point does one change from being black, to being brown? Or is it all based on geographical location?

Ancient Egyptians often were Middle Eastern. Yes, Egypt may be in Africa, but that doesn't mean it was inhabited primarily by black Africans.

I think the problem is that you are equating African with being black, which isn't necessarily true.

What do you mean they were often middle eastern? Ancient Egyptians descend from Africa, if their roots are African they are black African. So my uncle is not black African because he is olive brown? He is of African descent (Ghanaian and African Caribbean) he is black. Ancient Egyptians were black. Just like you would say a Somalian or Ethiopian is black even though they look different from say west Africans, the same way Ancient Egyptians were black too.

 

[fallingblood]

What do you mean they were often middle eastern? Ancient Egyptians descend from Africa, if their roots are African they are black African. So my uncle is not black African because he is olive brown? He is of African descent (Ghanaian and African Caribbean) he is black. Ancient Egyptians were black. Just like you would say a Somalian or Ethiopian is black even though they look different from say west Africans, the same way Ancient Egyptians were black too.

Europeans also originated out of Africa, so are they black? That is where their roots are initially from.

More so, not all Egyptians were from Africa. They didn't all have their roots from Africa. Egypt was a melting pot, for the lack of a better term. There were many Middle Easterners who moved into Egypt. And Middle Easterners weren't the only ones, as Egypt was in a very good place.

And again, how do you define black? Is it a geographical area? Where does one stop being black, and start being brown, or whatever?


Finally, the idea that Egypt was a "black civilization" is really an Afrocentric argument, that evolved in the 20th century. The movement, while understandable, arose from a backlash against the Eurocentric view. While the Eurocentric view is not correct either, one can't replace it with another extreme.

 

[Orias]

It is quickly becoming common knowledge to people waking up that the Israelites were indeed a black people. It is also understood that many (if not most or all) blacks of slave descent are Israelites as well.

Why is it that in light of such information, people have such a hard time accepting these facts?

Considering that I believe that the human race originated in Africa, its no surprise to me.

I believe all of the human race is "black" at heart

 

[metis]

What do you mean they were often middle eastern? Ancient Egyptians descend from Africa, if their roots are African they are black African. So my uncle is not black African because he is olive brown? He is of African descent (Ghanaian and African Caribbean) he is black. Ancient Egyptians were black. Just like you would say a Somalian or Ethiopian is black even though they look different from say west Africans, the same way Ancient Egyptians were black too.

Most Egyptians are and were semitic, but this is less true in the southern Nile region. However, neither of these regions were somehow "purely" one way or the other.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Europeans also originated out of Africa, so are they black? That is where their roots are initially from.

I'm talking about now. As we stand now as homo-sapiens

More so, not all Egyptians were from Africa. They didn't all have their roots from Africa. Egypt was a melting pot, for the lack of a better term. There were many Middle Easterners who moved into Egypt. And Middle Easterners weren't the only ones, as Egypt was in a very good place.

So are you saying they were a mixture of black and arab?

And again, how do you define black? Is it a geographical area? Where does one stop being black, and start being brown, or whatever?

You tell me? Because apparently I'm wrong for saying the Ancient Egyptians were black, apparently they aren't black because their skin colour wasn't very very dark? Even though there are plenty of light skin black people.

Finally, the idea that Egypt was a "black civilization" is really an Afrocentric argument, that evolved in the 20th century. The movement, while understandable, arose from a backlash against the Eurocentric view. While the Eurocentric view is not correct either, one can't replace it with another extreme.

Are you saying the Egyptians were a mixture of black and Arab? I would be willing to accept that due to immigration into Africa. Also how do we know what percentage were black and what percentage were arab?

 

[fallingblood]

I'm talking about now. As we stand now as homo-sapiens

So your uncle lives in Africa then? Or is a little background okay, but to look for the initial roots isn't?

So are you saying they were a mixture of black and arab?

I'm saying they were a mixture of a variety of different backgrounds.

You tell me? Because apparently I'm wrong for saying the Ancient Egyptians were black, apparently they aren't black because their skin colour wasn't very very dark? Even though there are plenty of light skin black people.

I think the idea of being black is a incorrect idea in the first place. The whole black vs white, or whatever is simply an outdated view that needs to be destroyed so that people can move on.

Are you saying the Egyptians were a mixture of black and Arab? I would be willing to accept that due to immigration into Africa. Also how do we know what percentage were black and what percentage were arab?

I'm not really sure how one defines what is black. However, to label them black because they are in Africa simply isn't logical.

 

[metis]

In anthropology, we very much agree that there's only one race-- the human race. Attempts to define different races have failed to mark any significant differences that are distinct enough to differentiate one "race" from another.

 

[Assad91]

I wonder why blacks sometimes fall for such silly cpnspiracy theories. Would ot make their history less painful?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

So your uncle lives in Africa then? Or is a little background okay, but to look for the initial roots isn't?

He is Ghanaian and African Caribbean he is classified as black, to go way back before we were even Homo Sapiens is ridiculous.

I'm saying they were a mixture of a variety of different backgrounds.

what variety of backgrounds?

I think the idea of being black is a incorrect idea in the first place. The whole black vs white, or whatever is simply an outdated view that needs to be destroyed so that people can move on.

How we classify race is not accurate and mostly sociological but if Ethiopians and Somalians are black than Ancient Egyptians are black. I will accept they they were a mixture of black and arab.

I'm not really sure how one defines what is black. However, to label them black because they are in Africa simply isn't logical.

No not because they are in Africa but because their roots are African. Are you trying to say you have never called anyone black? We call African Caribbeans, African Americans and African British people black because they descend from Africa. Some are olive and we still call them black.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

In anthropology, we very much agree that there's only one race-- the human race. Attempts to define different races have failed to mark any significant differences that are distinct enough to differentiate one "race" from another.

Of course, but if people can say the Ancient Egyptians were not black but Arab/middle eastern/Semitic some people have even said they were "white" arab (eeerrmmm http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8cdop724G1qdmlobo1_500.jpg) even though we are one race, then some can say they are black African even though we are one race. It depends on how we define race.

 

[fallingblood]

He is Ghanaian and African Caribbean he is classified as black, to go way back before we were even Homo Sapiens is ridiculous.

I wasn't going back before we were Homo Sapiens. I was going back to the roots. You after all said that we could go back to the roots. But I guess it is only so far?

what variety of backgrounds?

Ethiopian, Greek, Canaanite, other Semitic groups, other groups from Africa, Asian groups. It was a mixture. And how can we pull just one or two roots and call them that? We can't.

How we classify race is not accurate and mostly sociological but if Ethiopians and Somalians are black than Ancient Egyptians are black. I will accept they they were a mixture of black and arab.

That doesn't make them black. Everyone has some black decent. So by that logic, we are all black.

No not because they are in Africa but because their roots are African. Are you trying to say you have never called anyone black? We call African Caribbeans, African Americans and African British people black because they descend from Africa. Some are olive and we still call them black.

All human roots are African. So then we are all black. Also, they are not called black because they descended from Africa. They were called black because their skin was dark and thus were seen as inferior.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

my uncle is yellow brown, there are Asian's and Arabs darker than him, he is still black of African descent. It's doesn't matter if their skin colour wasn't very very dark like some other peoples of Africa.

"To the east, the coming of iron meant that Egypt also lost her independence, though in a significantly different manner. The pharaohs of the Twenty-fifth Dynasty were the Nubian kings of Kush; they were replaced by an invasion of Assyrians in 671 bc. Despite the fact that the country frequently had tributary status to a succession of foreign powers, the traditional culture of ancient Egypt survived with few important modifications for over six centuries (Lloyd 1983; Nicholson and Shaw 2000). The developing Greek-dominated trade networks of the eastern Mediterranean brought Egypt, through her entrepôt of Naukratis in the Nile Delta, into closer contact with Europe. Herodotus, who visited Egypt in the fifth century bc, has left us (in his Book II) a detailed and informative account both of what he saw and of what he learned about the Egypt of earlier times." p. 221

Phillipson, D. W. (2005). African archaeology (3rd ed.). Cambridge University Press.

As for racial markers, skin tone is hardly the only one: "When comparing one race with another, we do find genes that are on the whole specific for certain populations. Many individuals of Native American descent have the Diego blood group factors, and people of Jewish descent have a propensity for Tay-Sachs disease." p. 92

Mayr, E. (2002). The Biology of Race and the Concept of Equality. Daedalus 131(1): 89-94

Tay-Sachs is not specific to a religion, or even the Jewish "race", but a "race" which includes other Semitic peoples. It does not include Africans in general except those that are distinct from more general characteristics among African peoples, such as (some of) the Egyptians.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I wasn't going back before we were Homo Sapiens. I was going back to the roots. You after all said that we could go back to the roots. But I guess it is only so far?

Race is mostly sociological we don't go back 125,000 years when classifying race.

Ethiopian, Greek, Canaanite, other Semitic groups, other groups from Africa, Asian groups. It was a mixture. And how can we pull just one or two roots and call them that? We can't.

well people have been saying they were MOSTLY middle eastern, how do we know that?

That doesn't make them black. Everyone has some black decent. So by that logic, we are all black.

I would say their black descend was very close though. My mum is Ghanaian and Lebanese she is just as "black" as Obama.

All human roots are African. So then we are all black. Also, they are not called black because they descended from Africa. They were called black because their skin was dark and thus were seen as inferior.

We call them black now because they descend from Africa even if they are olive. No one is literally black but "black people" are varying shades of brown. People don't classify Semitic people as black though even though they are brown also. Like I said I accept that the Ancient Egyptians were a mixture of mostly black and Arab or Semitic.

 

[Rakhel]

well if we want to go on "roots" alone....
since Abraham, supposedly, came out of Ur which was said to be in Iran, then I guess, it would be safe to safe that Abraham was not African or black.
Since Isaac, Abraham's son, was Sarah's son and not born in Africa, then, I guess, it is safe to say that Isaac was not African or black.
Now. Rebekah was born in Canaan, which is not in Africa, so it stands to reason the she was neither African nor black
Which means their twins could not possibly be black, African, maybe, but not black.
Jacob married Leah and Rachel, both from Canaan and the nieces(literally) of Rebekah, one can say that neither of them were black or African.
Now all the sons of Jacob. All of them were, unless I'm sorely mistaken, were born on the Arab peninsula. And since all of there ancestors were not black, this logic applies to them. It also does not make them African. Arabian, almost assuredly, but not African.
So now we go down a number of generations(because no one is absolutely sure of the lineage of that time). Were Israelites born in Africa. Sure. They are African. Does this mean they were black? Not necessarily.