Why can't some people accept that the Israelites were black?

[Wherenextcolumbus]

well if we want to go on "roots" alone....
since Abraham, supposedly, came out of Ur which was said to be in Iran, then I guess, it would be safe to safe that Abraham was not African or black.
Since Isaac, Abraham's son, was Sarah's son and not born in Africa, then, I guess, it is safe to say that Isaac was not African or black.
Now. Rebekah was born in Canaan, which is not in Africa, so it stands to reason the she was neither African nor black
Which means their twins could not possibly be black, African, maybe, but not black.
Jacob married Leah and Rachel, both from Canaan and the nieces(literally) of Rebekah, one can say that neither of them were black or African.
Now all the sons of Jacob. All of them were, unless I'm sorely mistaken, were born on the Arab peninsula. And since all of there ancestors were not black, this logic applies to them. It also does not make them African. Arabian, almost assuredly, but not African.
So now we go down a number of generations(because no one is absolutely sure of the lineage of that time). Were Israelites born in Africa. Sure. They are African. Does this mean they were black? Not necessarily.

If this is aimed at me I never tried to claim all ancient Jewish people were black African I don't agree with the OP.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Race is mostly sociological we don't go back 125,000 years when classifying race.

I don't know if I would say mostly sociological. Despite studies on the appropriateness of the term (some for, such as Risch, N., Burchard, E., Ziv, E., & Tang, H. (2002). Categorization of humans in biomedical research: genes, race and disease. Genome Biol, 3(7), 1-12, Jorde, L. B., & Wooding, S. P. (2004). Genetic variation, classification and'race'. Nature genetics, 36, S28-S33; some against), medical research has continually used the term race, first largely inappropriately (let's not forget eugenics) but after the boom of genome research the fact that certain diseases and disorders are found in populations that tend to correlate with both self-identified race and biological definitions of race makes it hard to argue for a scientific reason for excluding the term race in medical and particularly biomedical studies.

More importantly, as the single greatest genetic distinction (and the reason I provided links to the above two articles) is between Africans and non-Africans, genetic variations that are important (not so much in distinguishing Jewish ancestry per se but in distinguishing African race(s) from non-African do indeed go back 100,000 years or more. The first migrations are part of the origins of the underlying genetic clusters and variations between clusters of "race", and they go back almost as far as our species.

well people have been saying they were MOSTLY middle eastern, how do we know that?

Genome studies: ** edited due to presentation considerations ** - Click here to see the map in a new tab or window

See here: The population genetics of the Jewish people

 

[Ingledsva]

well if we want to go on "roots" alone....
since Abraham, supposedly, came out of Ur which was said to be in Iran, then I guess, it would be safe to safe that Abraham was not African or black.
Since Isaac, Abraham's son, was Sarah's son and not born in Africa, then, I guess, it is safe to say that Isaac was not African or black.
Now. Rebekah was born in Canaan, which is not in Africa, so it stands to reason the she was neither African nor black
Which means their twins could not possibly be black, African, maybe, but not black.
Jacob married Leah and Rachel, both from Canaan and the nieces(literally) of Rebekah, one can say that neither of them were black or African.
Now all the sons of Jacob. All of them were, unless I'm sorely mistaken, were born on the Arab peninsula. And since all of there ancestors were not black, this logic applies to them. It also does not make them African. Arabian, almost assuredly, but not African.
So now we go down a number of generations(because no one is absolutely sure of the lineage of that time). Were Israelites born in Africa. Sure. They are African. Does this mean they were black? Not necessarily.

Apparently there was also an Ur in ancient India, and a couple of ancient historians tell us the Hebrew came from India - with a first stop in Egypt.

Interestingly there is also a Hindu Kush.

"...These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calani." Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), (Book I:22.)

"The tribe of Ioud or the Brahmin Abraham, left the Maturea of the kingdom of Oude in India and, settling in Goshen, or the house of the Sun or Heliopolis in Egypt, gave it the name of the place which they had left in India, Maturea." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 405.)

India even has a Noah's Ark flood story.

*

 

[Shermana]

Can't find any links to this ancient Ur of India, link please.

Hindu Kush is simply a Mountain Range means "Kill the Hindu". Other than that, it's a popular strand of Cannabis. No evidence of it correlating to a people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush

 

[metis]

Of course, but if people can say the Ancient Egyptians were not black but Arab/middle eastern/Semitic some people have even said they were "white" arab (eeerrmmm http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8cdop724G1qdmlobo1_500.jpg) even though we are one race, then some can say they are black African even though we are one race. It depends on how we define race.

It's not a matter of either/or but a matter if degrees. The Egyptian population is a mixture, but in the north one group tends to be more dominant and in the far south another.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

It's not a matter of either/or but a matter if degrees. The Egyptian population is a mixture, but in the north one group tends to be more dominant and in the far south another.

So what degree was Ancient Egyptians Arab or Black

 

[metis]

So at degree was Ancient Egyptians Arab or Black

I think I know what you're asking here but I'm not sure, so please correct me if I'm off course.

The answer can be found in the genome testing that's underway but already is giving us a pretty good picture of where certain groups evolved, along with general migratory patterns. I have seen the results from northern Africa, and it was and is as I mentioned in the previous post. However, I cannot give you the degrees. You might google "Egypt + genome testing" and see what you get as I don't have the time to do it myself.

We should remember that the Sahara was a major obstacle in limiting migration patterns, although we also know that there was at least some migration from sub-Sahara to the north, although not in huge numbers.

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

This post is a good ( Example ) of why all this ( Bullying ) going on in the School's ( Today )
One can see where the ( Children's ) get it from . ( The Adult's ) . Bullying breeds Racism , Hatred , Separation , I-G-N-O-R-A-N-C-E , And this is A Religious forum how sad is that . ( The Sparda ) must have really touch a Nerve here . If anything came out of this post , It shows the Heart and Minds of some doesn't it . 2013 A.D. Still certain subject can't be discuss without Respect for each other . Fear is something Isn't it .

Now before someone try's to Twist my words here I'm not speaking about everyone here .

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I think I know what you're asking here but I'm not sure, so please correct me if I'm off course.

The answer can be found in the genome testing that's underway but already is giving us a pretty good picture of where certain groups evolved, along with general migratory patterns. I have seen the results from northern Africa, and it was and is as I mentioned in the previous post. However, I cannot give you the degrees. You might google "Egypt + genome testing" and see what you get as I don't have the time to do it myself.

We should remember that the Sahara was a major obstacle in limiting migration patterns, although we also know that there was at least some migration from sub-Sahara to the north, although not in huge numbers.

Thank you!

 

[fallingblood]

Race is mostly sociological we don't go back 125,000 years when classifying race.

When classifying race, it is usually best to acknowledge that the idea of races is a myth. Sociologically, race doesn't exist. So when "classifying" race, if we want to stick with the idea of race, going back 125,000 years isn't out of the question. Especially since often, at least in the United States, if one could show that a person had any ancestor at all who was black, they were considered black. One drop, and they were black.

well people have been saying they were MOSTLY middle eastern, how do we know that?

Well is in the Middle East. Even though it is part of the continent of Africa, it is still considered part of the Middle East.

I would say their black descend was very close though. My mum is Ghanaian and Lebanese she is just as "black" as Obama.

Isn't Obama also white? How does one actually define such? To me, it seems as if you're just picking and choosing as to the definition of what makes one black.

We call them black now because they descend from Africa even if they are olive. No one is literally black but "black people" are varying shades of brown. People don't classify Semitic people as black though even though they are brown also. Like I said I accept that the Ancient Egyptians were a mixture of mostly black and Arab or Semitic.

Being from Africa does not make one black. Since all humans originated out of Africa, by what you're saying, we would all be black. But race is nothing more than a myth.

More so, at what point does one change from being black, to being brown, or yellow, or what not? There is no clear shade color. I've met "black" people who were only as dark as I am. Does that mean I'm black too?

And if Semitic people aren't black, then why label the same colored people black? It doesn't make sense. That's the problem with race, it is just made up.

Black is not a distinguishing mark. Race is a modern invention, that was used to subjugate others. The people who populated Egypt weren't black. They were Egyptians with backgrounds from other areas.

 

[fallingblood]

Apparently there was also an Ur in ancient India, and a couple of ancient historians tell us the Hebrew came from India - with a first stop in Egypt.

Interestingly there is also a Hindu Kush.

"...These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calani." Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), (Book I:22.)

"The tribe of Ioud or the Brahmin Abraham, left the Maturea of the kingdom of Oude in India and, settling in Goshen, or the house of the Sun or Heliopolis in Egypt, gave it the name of the place which they had left in India, Maturea." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 405.)

India even has a Noah's Ark flood story.

*

This really isn't a strong argument, as no real scholar on the subject accepts such an idea. The Ur that is being talked about clearly is placed in Mesopotamia. The reason this is known is because it is qualified as being there. Abraham isn't said to just have been from Ur, but actually is shown to have been from Mesopotamia (not to mention, most scholars question the historicity of Abraham anyway).

As for Josephus, he is talking about a very later time. Yes, by then, some Jews had moved to India, and probably were taught there. It after all was on a major trade route. And since many Jews ended up being scattered after Israel and Judah were conquered, it makes sense that there would be some migration. What Josephus is not saying though is that Jews originated from India. He accepts the traditional story.

As for the flood story, nearly every society has one. It is not surprising that India has one (actually it is a few of them). While they have a basic commonality, the stories are quite distinct.

 

[Pegg]

It is quickly becoming common knowledge to people waking up that the Israelites were indeed a black people. It is also understood that many (if not most or all) blacks of slave descent are Israelites as well.

Why is it that in light of such information, people have such a hard time accepting these facts?

which shade of black?

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

which shade of black?

The Sparda has been BANNED seens few here still take joy in attacking insulting him even tho he not here , He must really hit a Nerve , The only mistake he made was not doing his own Research , And relying on other people information . Yashu'a was a Black man , The real Egyptian were Black also . These are Fact's that can be proven rather some accept it or not . Michelangel and Leonardo De Vinci, Etc Etc . painted , pictures in their image and after their likeness . Hope I spell their names right not a good spell-er .

 

[Levite]

The Sparda has been BANNED seens few here still take joy in attacking insulting him even tho he not here , He must really hit a Nerve , The only mistake he made was not doing his own Research , And relying on other people information . Yashu'a was a Black man , The real Egyptian were Black also . These are Fact's that can be proven rather some accept it or not . Michelangel and Leonardo De Vinci, Etc Etc . painted , pictures in their image and after their likeness . Hope I spell their names right not a good spell-er .

Neither Jews nor Egyptians were black. Nor were they Caucasian. They were Semitic. Middle Eastern in appearance, olive and brown skinned. This is because they were Middle Easterners. Their countries are in the Middle East, not in sub-Saharan Africa or Europe.

Why is this incredibly simple and rational fact so difficult for so many to wrap their heads around?! Nobody comes up with idiotic conspiracy theories that the Vikings were black, or that Greeks were really from China. I really don't get why this is any different.

 

[Rakhel]

Neither Jews nor Egyptians were black. Nor were they Caucasian. They were Semitic. Middle Eastern in appearance, olive and brown skinned. This is because they were Middle Easterners. Their countries are in the Middle East, not in sub-Saharan Africa or Europe.

Why is this incredibly simple and rational fact so difficult for so many to wrap their heads around?! Nobody comes up with idiotic conspiracy theories that the Vikings were black, or that Greeks were really from China. I really don't get why this is any different.

Reminds me of one of my past sigs.
"Believe what you want. Someone will always tell you you're wrong."

 

[Flankerl]

What do you mean they were often middle eastern? Ancient Egyptians descend from Africa, if their roots are African they are black African.

Except that the egyptians who lived in antiquity were probably settlers from the Sahara and moved there when the Sahara ceased to be a hospitable place.

You equate all of africa with subsaharan africa. And thats not really good.

So my uncle is not black African because he is olive brown? He is of African descent (Ghanaian and African Caribbean) he is black. Ancient Egyptians were black. Just like you would say a Somalian or Ethiopian is black even though they look different from say west Africans, the same way Ancient Egyptians were black too.

So how come northern africans look completely different from subsaharan africans?

Just look at the Tuareg for example. They never really intermingled with the invading arabs and mostly stayed who they are. Yet they arent like subsaharan africans despite them being as original africans as you can be.


Also if you want to see more real egyptians(and basically hear) visit the copts in egypt. Their language is egyptian.

They were Semitic.

I really have to disagree.
The Sahara used to be quite the nice place to live there. Then it ceased to be and became a huge desert.

Studies conclude that many people who used to live right in the now-desert obviously fled in all directions. Apart from some people who continued to live at oases.

Egyptian(Coptic) is also not a semitic language.

Most Egyptians are and were semitic

No not really. They started being semitic after the islamic conquests. Prior to that egyptians were rather special.

 

[metis]

No not really. They started being semitic after the islamic conquests. Prior to that egyptians were rather special.

You are correct, of course. Where I brain-farted is with contrasting the central and northern Egyptian population with the southern population, and then mislabeling the former.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[CMike]

What's the difference?

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

Neither Jews nor Egyptians were black. Nor were they Caucasian. They were Semitic. Middle Eastern in appearance, olive and brown skinned. This is because they were Middle Easterners. Their countries are in the Middle East, not in sub-Saharan Africa or Europe.

Why is this incredibly simple and rational fact so difficult for so many to wrap their heads around?! Nobody comes up with idiotic conspiracy theories that the Vikings were black, or that Greeks were really from China. I really don't get why this is any different.

I could say their no such thing as a Jew and I Can prove it but this is not the subject being discuss , And before you get into this Anti-thing plzzzzzzzz don't waste your time with such sillyness . I have read this whole post And everyone here have their own Version / Story of who right and who wrong . And this is because they're going to this favorite Website's to feed their Though, Ego , School thought's , Or what they have been told to Accept /Believe . You could tell their was fear in the air the way people were Attacking , Insulting this person who created the post . And now he not here . I don't mean no disrespect towards anyone here . But when it come to discussing Race . So people can't be truthful . For fear of loseing power of another race . Even when they know the truth .

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I could say their no such thing as a Jew and I Can prove it but this is not the subject being discuss , And before you get into this Anti-thing plzzzzzzzz don't waste your time with such sillyness . I have read this whole post And everyone here have their own Version / Story of who right and who wrong . And this is because they're going to this favorite Website's to feed their Though, Ego , School thought's , Or what they have been told to Accept /Believe . You could tell their was fear in the air the way people were Attacking , Insulting this person who created the post . And now he not here . I don't mean no disrespect towards anyone here . But when it come to discussing Race . So people can't be truthful . For fear of loseing power of another race . Even when they know the truth .

But we get that....but at least evidence would suffice. When I was young I read pretty much everything the the Nubian Islamic Hebrews (Malachi Z. York) wrote. I examined all of the "evidence" he presented. In this digital age it's no different. If you wish to discuss or even debate you at least have to present some evidence. It's not longer goo to just say (check it out for yourself)....