Why Creation by an Omnipotent, Omniscient Deity Is Even More Improbable than Pure Chance

[Heyo]

Thus, God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic Power and Strength to create the material realm - Isaiah 40:26

So, god creates ex nihilo ...

Earth is eternal according to the Bible at Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5

... except Earth, which always existed?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And if you care to do s little basic research you will see that life has been created and in several laboratories in different ways. It seems ctesting life is fairly easy given the right conditions

Science has, huh?
You’re referring to the collaboration between J. Craig Venter institute & MIT? What they did is not “creating life.” They just replaced the DNA in a cell with synthetic genes. They didn’t create the plasma membrane surrounding the cell.
(Similar to removing a car’s engine & transmission with new ones, but keeping the same chassis. That’s not a new car, sorry. Just rebuilt.)

Although they didn’t do what you claimed, ie, they didn’t create life…I’ll grant that what they achieved is amazing, but it only proves one thing: it required intelligence to do it, didn’t it?

It didn’t occur through natural processes. Did it?

It just adds more evidence to my claim.

 

[PruePhillip]

No known reason. There may be a reason, there may not have been. Ask yourself:

How did your God create itself?

That's a question you cannot answer because you cannot comprehend the realm of God. If God lies outside of space and time then how would you begin to imagine such a realm? So forget about an answer to who created God, forget about the question to begin with.

 

[PruePhillip]

No. Where did I say that? Whether or not I'm "fine" with it depends on the evidence, and we simply have no strong evidence to indicate exactly what caused the Big Bang, or whether it needed a "cause" in the typical sense to begin with.

So here's the thing - we can make a lightning rod to direct the thunder bolts from heaven (even laser ones.) We can figure out how life evolves. We know how contracting gas forms whole worlds. But that's the easy stuff, explaining or controlling our environment - explaining how our environment came to be in the first place is a whole different issue.

 

[PruePhillip]

You are misreading criticism of an unevidenced hypothesis as being a dogmatic statement of an alternative.

The position of science is that when we have no observations to support a hypothesis, we say "we don't know". We do not force-fit a hypothesis that has no evidence behind it, just so we can pretend to know something we don't.

If you want to ridicule dogmatic atheists, you will need to find someone else who can tell you what position they take.

But my point is - your average citizen is given the impression
1 - we know how it all began
2 - we soon will know how it all began.

That's the problem. No honesty or humility.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's a question you cannot answer because you cannot comprehend the realm of God. If God lies outside of space and time then how would you begin to imagine such a realm? So forget about an answer to who created God, forget about the question to begin with.

Sorry, that is a pathetic dodge on your part. Why not be honest and admit that you have no clue?

 

[1213]

Because the conditions in which it is hypothesized to have occurred in nature can't be replicated in a lab, nor did they accumulate in a short time span according to any scientific hypothesis.

I think that is funny. All life that we see is fast and dies fast, if there is for example even short stop in breathing.

 

[PureX]

Another contradiction, this time with

Has energy always existed or did it have a beginning?

The only expression of energy that we know of began with the BB. Yet it was a controlled expression of energy. Not a random expression of energy. And that control is what defined the universe that all that energy created.

So how did that giant expression of energy occur? And more importantly, what controlled it's expression? Theists say it was "God", and then immediately fall into a hundred different ideas and myths about what that God is, in their minds. Atheists have no idea but want to argue against any sort of God, anyway. But the truth is that none of us knows, and may well never know. Because we're talking about something that happened outside and beyond existence as we comprehend it from within that controlled explosion of energy. And so we have no way of grasping anything beyond it. Or even guessing, really.

But, it means that there is an "outside and beyond" existence as we experience and comprehend it. And that's why theists are theists. And it's why those who are trying to deny this will continue to fail. We may not know the answer, but most of us do recognize the question. And that's not going to go away because some atheist doesn't like the possibility that the answer might be 'God'.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think that is funny. All life that we see is fast and dies fast, if there is for example even short stop in breathing.

What does that have to do with anything? And the earliest life did not even breathe. Molecular oxygen was all but nonexistent at that time.

 

[ChristineM]

I find in the Bible No infinite closed volume because God stretches out the universe.
- Jeremiah 10:12 B; Jeremiah 32:17; Jeremiah 51:15 B; Isaiah 42:5 A; Isaiah 40:22 B.

I don't really care what the bible says, i do vare ehat cosmologists, astrophysicists and astronomers have to say. Also where relevant particle physicists.

 

[ChristineM]

Science has, huh?
You’re referring to the collaboration between J. Craig Venter institute & MIT? What they did is not “creating life.” They just replaced the DNA in a cell with synthetic genes. They didn’t create the plasma membrane surrounding the cell.
(Similar to removing a car’s engine & transmission with new ones, but keeping the same chassis. That’s not a new car, sorry. Just rebuilt.)

Although they didn’t do what you claimed, ie, they didn’t create life…I’ll grant that what they achieved is amazing, but it only proves one thing: it required intelligence to do it, didn’t it?

It didn’t occur through natural processes. Did it?

It just adds more evidence to my claim.

I said several instances. Venter was mot one or of them.

Example. First Life with "Alien" DNA Created in Lab

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't really care what the bible says, i do vare ehat cosmologists, astrophysicists and astronomers have to say. Also where relevant particle physicists.

They all agree with the Bible that the universe is expanding spreading out, stretching out.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They all agree with the Bible that the universe is expanding spreading out, stretching out.

That is just reinterpreting one of the Flat Earth verses oof the Bible.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I said several instances. Venter was mot one or of them.

Example. First Life with "Alien" DNA Created in Lab

Fascinating! It truly is! Thanks.

But the cell’s bi-layered lipid membrane was still not created; the cell‘s outer protective covering was kept. This is quite similar to what Venter & MIT accomplished.

And once again, intelligence was required!

It was intelligently designed.

No “poof” needed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Fascinating! It truly is! Thanks.

But the cell’s bi-layered lipid membrane was still not created; the cell‘s outer protective covering was kept. This is quite similar to what Venter & MIT accomplished.

And once again, intelligence was required!

It was intelligently designed.

No “poof” needed.

No, it is already understood how cell walls could form on their own. They used what was already known because one cannot wait the millions of years that it took nature.

If you want it done in a short time, yes intelligence is needed. But if one is willing to wait it does not appear to be needed.

Why is this so hard for creationists to understand? In experiments shortcuts have to be taken using what is already known.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No, it is already understood how cell walls could form on their own.

Reference?

keyword: “could”.

Not “did”.

And in the lab, they (the researchers) didn’t.

You saying “millions of years” is really disingenuous… the creation of anything that diminutive doesn’t take that long. Besides, individual cells don’t live millions of years.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Reference?

keyword: “could”.

Not “did”.

And in the lab, they (the researchers) didn’t.

You saying “millions of years” is really disingenuous… the creation of anything that diminutive doesn’t take that long. Besides, individual cells don’t live millions of years.

You should know by now why your complaint about "could" only demonstrates your ignorance.

But here is an article from Jack Szostak's site. Nobel laureate and all that:

Szostak Lab: Research

And how do you know how long it would take. But let's say that it took only ten thousand years. Is any experiment going to run that long?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You should know by now why your complaint about "could" only demonstrates your ignorance.

But here is an article from Jack Szostak's site. Nobel laureate and all that:

Szostak Lab: Research

And how do you know how long it would take. But let's say that it took only ten thousand years. Is any experiment going to run that long?

‘Demonstrates my ignorance’?
You’re too belittling & abusive.


If the researchers knew what “could” work, they would have done it. They didn’t.

 

[Subduction Zone]

‘Demonstrates my ignorance’?
You’re too belittling & abusive.


If the researchers knew what “could” work, they would have done it. They didn’t.

No, they were simply not concerned about that problem. Researchers tend to focus on one problem at a time.

And no, I was merely being honest. You were making false claims about others. Based on your inability to accept reality. If anything I was overly polite. You either were very ignorant or openly lying. I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[PureX]

I said several instances. Venter was mot one or of them.

Example. First Life with "Alien" DNA Created in Lab

Do you care that this headline is wildly untrue and misleading? That no life was created in this experiment.