Why designed?

[lunakilo]

I am wondering why some people seem to see design in thing which are very complicated.

Here is an example from my daily life:

I work as a software developer.
I help design software in a company which has been developing the same product for 10 years or so.
The software is continuously changed to try to keep up with customer demmands.

What usually happens is that the managment descides to implement some feature because some customer has requested it or because they feel some qustomers may want it in the near future.
Then the developers look at the code and try to change it to make it do more or less what was requested.
Maybe in doing so they will wrech some other functionality, but if no one is using it anymore then no one complains and the error goes unnoticed.

So after 10 years of this you end up with a big, complicated, messy code base that no one planned.
It mostly works, but there was no grand design plan.
It just happened to turn out this way.

So I am wondering why some people look at a human being and think, this big, complicated, messy bag of mostly water must have been designed to look exactly like this.

 

[PolyHedral]

Because they are not software developers.

 

[lunakilo]

Because they are not software developers.

Good point.

Then another example then:

It is very complicated to find anything on my desk.
Why? Because it is very messy.
I kkep getting new pieces of paper that I put on the desk on top of other pieces of paper which are already on my desk.
Then I have to find something on my desk and I dive into the piles of paper on my desk and look untill I (hopefully) find what I am looking for.
In the process I usually destroy the 'system' I tried to arrange the new pieces of paper in.

So I end up with big, complicated, messy pile of papers on my desk.
I didn't design that, it just happened.

So why would anyone assume that complicated things have to be designed?

 

[Reptillian]

I've always liked the example my old philosophy professor used to give of something complex that wasn't designed. He used to say, "A spider's web can be monstrously complex, but I'd hardly call the spider an intelligent designer."

 

[freethinker44]

So I am wondering why some people look at a human being and think, this big, complicated, messy bag of mostly water must have been designed to look exactly like this.

Everyone likes to feel special.

 

[Willamena]

Is the belief that things are designed any more unusual (or less useful) than the belief that things just happen that way?

 

[Man of Faith]

I’m flabbergasted. Of all people, a programmer should know better than to try to admit that there is such a thing as a code or program, even a "messy" one in the universe that hasn't been designed. Even scientists admit that DNA is a genetic code, a program if you will. There are rules of communication in life forms using agreed upon symbols. The sequence of base pairs is encoded into messenger RNA and then decoded into proteins.

Compare the two schematic drawings, one of Claude Shannon’s communication model, to Hubert Yockey’s DNA communication channel model.

Is DNA a Code?

 

[PolyHedral]

I’m flabbergasted. Of all people, a programmer should know better than to try to admit that there is such a thing as a code or program, even a "messy" one in the universe that hasn't been designed. Even scientists admit that DNA is a genetic code, a program if you will. There are rules of communication in life forms using agreed upon symbols. The sequence of base pairs is encoded into messenger RNA and then decoded into proteins.

Compare the two schematic drawings, one of Claude Shannon’s communication model, to Hubert Yockey’s DNA communication channel model.

Is DNA a Code?

The cell is some isomorphism of a Von Neumann machine. So what? Intelligence isn't "inherited" from designers, if that's what you're thinking. I can set up a program that will eventually produce an intelligence far more powerful than me, easily.

 

[lunakilo]

Is the belief that things are designed any more unusual (or less useful) than the belief that things just happen that way?

Some things are designed.

I regularly design things myself, but to conclude from that all things are designed and cannot possibly have come to be any other way seems unfounded to me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Things only look designed as result of seeing ourselves as designers.

 

[Kerr]

I’m flabbergasted. Of all people, a programmer should know better than to try to admit that there is such a thing as a code or program, even a "messy" one in the universe that hasn't been designed. Even scientists admit that DNA is a genetic code, a program if you will. There are rules of communication in life forms using agreed upon symbols. The sequence of base pairs is encoded into messenger RNA and then decoded into proteins.

Compare the two schematic drawings, one of Claude Shannon’s communication model, to Hubert Yockey’s DNA communication channel model.

Is DNA a Code?

A programmer of all people should also know that "designed" doesnt mean "well designed". Since "designed" programs can be steaming piles of **** under the hood then it can be considered very odd to look at the world and say that it has to be designed because of its complexity and beauty.

 

[lunakilo]

I’m flabbergasted. Of all people, a programmer should know better than to try to admit that there is such a thing as a code or program, even a "messy" one in the universe that hasn't been designed.

Why?

If we talk computer code, then I will admit that somewhere there was a human involved, but the point of my example was that no one designed the finished product of the code.

If one person makes one piece of code (A) that does one thing and another person makes another piece of code (B) that does another thing and then the two pieces are put together to form a new piece of code (C) that does something neither person planned it to do, then no one designed C.

Normally when something is very complicated or messy you can pick it apart and find smaller less complicated things inside it which again consists of smaller less complex bits and so on.
So in the end a complex thing may end up being made up of some very simple bits and pieces.

Claiming that something is designed just because it is complicated is like claiming that someone designed the mess on my table.
(Well who knows, maybe some one did, but it wasn't me )

 

[outhouse]

I am wondering why some people seem to see design in thing which are very complicated.

reaching with imagination to protect their theism they dont really understand to begin with.

 

[idav]

I am wondering why some people seem to see design in thing which are very complicated.

Here is an example from my daily life:

I work as a software developer.
I help design software in a company which has been developing the same product for 10 years or so.
The software is continuously changed to try to keep up with customer demmands.

What usually happens is that the managment descides to implement some feature because some customer has requested it or because they feel some qustomers may want it in the near future.
Then the developers look at the code and try to change it to make it do more or less what was requested.
Maybe in doing so they will wrech some other functionality, but if no one is using it anymore then no one complains and the error goes unnoticed.

So after 10 years of this you end up with a big, complicated, messy code base that no one planned.
It mostly works, but there was no grand design plan.
It just happened to turn out this way.

So I am wondering why some people look at a human being and think, this big, complicated, messy bag of mostly water must have been designed to look exactly like this.

Cause when we pile a couple of variables like 0's and 1's into a big mess a pattern is bound to come from it and some of it might actually be useful. And just because one of the piles is of use doesn't mean it was designed that way, in nature we just work with what we are given. The amount of things we can do with a tree is astonishing and it wasn't designed to do anything but be a tree but many of us might argue that the purpose of trees is to give us beer.

 

[Man of Faith]

A programmer of all people should also know that "designed" doesnt mean "well designed". Since "designed" programs can be steaming piles of **** under the hood then it can be considered very odd to look at the world and say that it has to be designed because of its complexity and beauty.

Good point and maybe I misunderstood the OP, I apologize if I did. I see now that I could have mistakenly focused on the programming part a little too much. Either way, biology scientists do see design in life. Dawkins said that there was apparent design in life and it was the biologist job to show how it came about naturally. Design is worded in a lot of biology speech, such as “the alligators jaws were designed for….”, or “the wings were designed in such a way…” The word design is all over biological explanations.

 

[Man of Faith]

Why?

If we talk computer code, then I will admit that somewhere there was a human involved, but the point of my example was that no one designed the finished product of the code.

If one person makes one piece of code (A) that does one thing and another person makes another piece of code (B) that does another thing and then the two pieces are put together to form a new piece of code (C) that does something neither person planned it to do, then no one designed C.

Normally when something is very complicated or messy you can pick it apart and find smaller less complicated things inside it which again consists of smaller less complex bits and so on.
So in the end a complex thing may end up being made up of some very simple bits and pieces.

Claiming that something is designed just because it is complicated is like claiming that someone designed the mess on my table.
(Well who knows, maybe some one did, but it wasn't me )

It's not just the point that it is complicated. I can drop a can of pick up sticks and they look complicated but just fell where they may, but they aren't used for anything other than picking up. The point is it is complicated and it is used for a purpose. A leg looks designed for walking and it is actually used for walking. Fingers look designed for grasping and they are actually used for grasping. The genetic code looks complicated and it is actually used for programming life.

 

[shawn001]

It's not just the point that it is complicated. I can drop a can of pick up sticks and they look complicated but just fell where they may, but they aren't used for anything other than picking up. The point is it is complicated and it is used for a purpose. A leg looks designed for walking and it is actually used for walking. Fingers look designed for grasping and they are actually used for grasping. The genetic code looks complicated and it is actually used for programming life.

Man of Faith

Two questions for you.

Lets just say the universe was designed for the sake of discussion.

Where did the elements like Carbon come from?

How did the moon form?

 

[Kerr]

Good point and maybe I misunderstood the OP, I apologize if I did. I see now that I could have mistakenly focused on the programming part a little too much. Either way, biology scientists do see design in life. Dawkins said that there was apparent design in life and it was the biologist job to show how it came about naturally. Design is worded in a lot of biology speech, such as “the alligators jaws were designed for….”, or “the wings were designed in such a way…” The word design is all over biological explanations.

That depends on what you define as "designed", you know. Some people would just use it to explain things. Like saying "the mouth is designed for eating" doesnt have to imply "God gave us a mouth to eat".

 

[idav]

It's not just the point that it is complicated. I can drop a can of pick up sticks and they look complicated but just fell where they may, but they aren't used for anything other than picking up. The point is it is complicated and it is used for a purpose. A leg looks designed for walking and it is actually used for walking. Fingers look designed for grasping and they are actually used for grasping. The genetic code looks complicated and it is actually used for programming life.

Evolution works the opposite direction of design for intent. When life came out in the beginning of the earth they didn't come out with designed legs. Over time legs came to be through evolution and then became useful after the animal gained the leverage. Now we use the legs for whatever suits us like jumping, walking and kicking, there isn't really a specific design for it we just use what we have however possible.

 

[Man of Faith]

Man of Faith

Two questions for you.

Lets just say the universe was designed for the sake of discussion.

Where did the elements like Carbon come from?

How did the moon form?

Well, that's a little off topic of the OP don't you think? But my technical answer would be God did it. But of course you can say the big bang did it if you like.