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Why did christianity win out (from a secular / historical perspective)?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Okay, I got it. Would you agree that these Christian Atheists are pretty rare? I actually knew a guy like this when I was younger. He was Agnostic, but was an extremely ethical person, and felt that attending a church regularly was the best way to find a quality wife. But other than him, I've never come across anyone else like this in real life.
Here in Brazil there is so much expectation that people will accept being considered Christian for literally no reason that I have to wonder.

Many people give a strong impression that they expect atheists to just lie about their disbelief. Including most parents and many priests.

Also, many institutions are not supported well enough by government or others and end up being commanded by Christian or other theists groups as a matter of course. Most of the time we are expected to simply not comment on that nor mind if someone does.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the question is how did it grow so much so that it could reach that status.
It grew because of the proud man.

Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:5
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
It grew because of the proud man.

Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:5
What does that verse have to do with anything I said???
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yeah, but the question is how did it grow so much so that it could reach that status.
It strikes me that Christianity was much more "portable" than other religions of the time:

  • No requirement to be of a particular nationality/ethnicity and worship wasn't tied to a specific place, so it's able to be practiced anywhere.
  • No dietary restrictions or requirements for asceticism or living in separate communities, so adherents could mix fine with larger society.
  • No requirement for pacifism, so there weren't any barriers stopping soldiers from joining the religion (and then bringing it with them back to the core of the Empire).
Edit: and on top of that was aggressive proselytizing, of course.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
What does that verse have to do with anything I said???
because the context of Habakkuk 2:5 is of faith, which relates to the growth of the Christian faith pre Constantine.

Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

Paul misquotes this verse in his epistle to the Romans:

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:17
 

vijeno

Active Member
No requirement to be of a particular nationality/ethnicity and worship wasn't tied to a specific place, so it's able to be practiced anywhere.

and on top of that was aggressive proselytizing, of course.

I find it interesting that two of your points go back to one attribute - which, to me, is the most central christian innovation:

It's all about faith.

I don't think that any other religion, back then, was so focused on it. At least, none that I heard of.

Faith has some nice memetic qualities: It can reach everybody, regardless of race, gender etc. It's transferrable by - as you say - proselytizing. If you think that your faith saves you, that naturally makes you want to do it. And then you can create that oh so clever trap: "The wisdom of the cross is folly to the unbelievers". Yummie. Love it! It can give people hope without having to actually offer anything. The religion can be "revolutionary" without actually encouraging revolution. It can have a great "social message" without forcing people to actually do something - unless the leaders decide that it would be a good idea. And so on.

All of this makes it perfect cult material. A perfect memetic survival strategy.

In short, I think the focus on faith is central to christianity's success.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How and why though?
Why did Constantine make Christianity the state religion? My guess is the Sermon on the Mount and related ethics. Here's the message in a nutshell: Stand down and accept your miserable lot without objecting or rising up, because that's what God commands. Christianity is a religion of submission and obedience - the only path to salvation over perdition. Subjects must submit to kings, slaves to slaveholders, and women to men. Be longsuffering. Be meek. If the man slaps you, offer him your other cheek. Do you have enemies? Love them. Pray for them, even. Your reward will come after you die.

What tyrant wouldn't love a religion that teaches that? This guy understood:

"How can you have order in a state without religion? For, when one man is dying of hunger near another who is ill of surfeit, he cannot resign himself to this difference unless there is an authority which declares 'God wills it thus.' Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon Bonaparte
People need to stop using the term Darwinism. The TOE today has has been upgraded from Darwin's time.
So have Daltonism and mesmerism, but both words still work fine. Do you prefer neo-Darwinism?
Survival of the fittest in a historical Petri dish. Look and learn grasshopppah. :). . . Snatch the Gideon's from my hand it it will be time for you to leave enlightened.
LOL. I notice you didn't attempt to rebut any of it. But it's your lucky day. Here it is again. Do you disagree that these things happened or that collectively, they constitute a successful marketing scheme? :

"Christianity has enjoyed the greatest marketing campaign in the history of man, nearly two millennia long and still going. Paul was the first to market Jesus in earnest, then Constantine at the point of a sword. The Catholic church arose and its chapels then basilicas and cathedrals began cropping up everywhere like a fast-food franchise to promulgate the religion. Waves of crusaders, missionaries, conquistadores and inquisitions spread and enforced the faith. The Gideons put a Bible in every hotel room. Schools taught religion and led students in prayer. With broadcast media, the televangelists began marketing Jesus. There was an ad for Jesus in the last Superbowl"
Many people give a strong impression that they expect atheists to just lie about their disbelief.
As you likely agree, there was once a good reason to do that, and perhaps in Brazil, there still is. A few centuries ago, they held inquisitions killed people as witches. A century ago, they persecuted Scopes for teaching evolution. When I was born, atheists were deemed unfit to teach, coach, adopt, or serve on juries, and they are still considered immoral and unfit for public office by many.

Also, there were few places to express such opinions and be heard by a large audience, and atheists were easily cowed and silenced. Today, we have the Internet and a wave of increasing secularism in the West. It's safe to express these kinds of opinions. And not surprisingly, the faithful are shocked and unprepared for it. They aren't used to being told that their gods are irrelevant and their religions uninteresting, and they just don't know what to do about atheism becoming normalized. Look at the things this post contains - the Sermon on the Mount as slave mentality, and the spread of Christianity not being due to the religion itself but rather the fact that many benefit from selling it. What do you think my fate for expressing those views would have been a century or two ago? But today, nobody needs to hide their atheism nor their antitheism.

"The problem with being privileged your whole life is that because you have had that privilege for so long, equality starts to look like oppression." - Mark Caddo
 

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Christianity is the majority religion today, and has been for 1700 years (or so).

Something has to be special about it... or not?

From the christian perspective, the answer is easy - it was god's plan all along, so of course christianity is the winner.

If you don't believe in it, then there must be other explanations. What are they?
You are right. It was god's plan. 'God' sends a teacher like Jesus to Earth approximately every 2160 years. Usually, the followers of this teacher found a new religion. Jesus is the latest of these series. But Christianity's 2000 years are up. We will soon have a new teacher and perhaps a new religion.
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
We will soon have a new teacher and perhaps a new religion.

HELLO!

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John
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
"Bishop Dionysius described events in Alexandria: “At the first onset of the disease, they [pagans] pushed the sufferers away and fled from their dearest, throwing them into the roads before they were dead and treated unburied corpses as dirt, hoping thereby to avert the spread and contagion of the fatal disease"
I doubt that it was exactly like that.
I would think that this gave the Christians a huge amount of good press.
Exactly, propaganda does that.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
"Christianity "

"Pauline Christianity or Pauline theology (also Paulism or Paulanity),[2] otherwise referred to as Gentile Christianity or Pagan Christianity,[3] is the theology and form of Christianity which developed from the beliefs and doctrines espoused by the Hellenistic-Jewish Apostle Paul through his writings and those New Testament writings traditionally attributed to him. Paul's beliefs were rooted in the earliest Jewish Christianity, but they deviated from this Jewish Christianity in their emphasis on inclusion of the Gentiles into God's New Covenant and in his rejection of circumcision as an unnecessary token of upholding the Mosaic Law.[3][4][5]

Proto-orthodox Christianity, which is rooted in the first centuries of the history of Christianity, relies heavily on Pauline theology and beliefs and considers them to be amplifications and explanations of the teachings of Jesus. Since the 18th century, a number of scholars have proposed that Paul's writings contain teachings that are different from the original teachings of Jesus and those of the earliest Jewish Christians, as documented in the canonical gospels, early Acts, and the rest of the New Testament, such as the Epistle of James.[6]
Pauline-Hellenist-Gentile-Christianity has got nothing to do with Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah and or his teachings, please, right?

Regards
 

flowerpower

Member
Christianity is the majority religion today, and has been for 1700 years (or so).

Something has to be special about it... or not?

From the christian perspective, the answer is easy - it was god's plan all along, so of course christianity is the winner.

If you don't believe in it, then there must be other explanations. What are they?

It piggybacked on the might of the Roman Empire and capitalized on European Imperialism and Colonialism, thus, it spread throughout the world.

Europeans (and North Americans) were/are really good at war so it was easy to impose upon people when you gave them an opportunity to either convert to Christianity or be murdered for several hundreds of years.

The USA being a superpower kind of consolidated it even further if we're going to refer to even more recent history.

Atheistic communism was a pretty horrible concept in every place it was attempted (worshipping the government instead of a personal understanding of god) - so people tended to default to a kind of religion or spirituality that resembled something less horrible.

That's pretty much it.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Why did christianity win out (from a secular / historical perspective)?

Christianity is a conglomerate of religions about 45000+ of them, before comparison, one should divide their total number by 45000 at least to get the average, please, right?

Regards
The vast majority of Christian "denominations" are individual churches that agree doctrinally with many other similar single-church "denominations," but don't subject themselves to the authority of a larger denominational organization because they believe that there can be no intermediaries between themselves and God.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The vast majority of Christian "denominations" are individual churches that agree doctrinally with many other similar single-church "denominations," but don't subject themselves to the authority of a larger denominational organization because they believe that there can be no intermediaries between themselves and God.
This is just not true. An independent church is not considered a denomination. That's exactly what "non-denominational church" means. A denomination is a group of churches under a single authority, usually a denominational headquarters. In most cases, a denomination will have multiple headquarters since it has an HQ in many many different countries. In such cases, it is each headquarters that are counted as a denomination.
 
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