Massimo2002
Active Member
I'm just wondering why ? And what did Facism off splinter from ? Because I have heard some people say that it splintered off from Communism or Socialism.
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Why Did Italians Create Facism ?
- Thread starter Massimo2002
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- facism
Fascism is usually the expression of difficulty at accepting reality by way of longing for dubious memories of a better, "purer" time in the past.
The underlying myth is that some sort of inferior group of people would have misguided the community and led it astray, leading to the supposed need and right to enable some form of "strong leadership" with the "courage" to effect the forceful changes that would rescue those better times of the past.
It is authoritarianism empowered by a willingness of people to lie to themselves out of pride and fear.
Fascism isn't at all left-wing, but it does like to present itself as a populist movement representing the "one true people", leading to situations where it can emulate some aspects of left-wing terminology.
I think that to understand why it arose in Italy we have to take into account the environment that made World War I possible. IMO it was the moment in History where weapons technology advancements greatly exceeded the political and social wisdom that it demands. Governments saw themselves as entitled to wage into pride-motivated bloodbaths mainly because they just did not know better, nor did the communities that they represented.
That led to levels of carnage and ruin that were utterly traumatic to much of Europe, including Italy. The ability to deal with the reality of facts suffered and the attachment to promises of easy, convenient (and if at all possible also proud) ways forward became a significant temptation.
Fascism is the path that arises from the expression of those fears by way of nationalism and militarism. It is a spasm of insanity made possible by feelings of vulnerability and "unrespected" superiority.
The underlying myth is that some sort of inferior group of people would have misguided the community and led it astray, leading to the supposed need and right to enable some form of "strong leadership" with the "courage" to effect the forceful changes that would rescue those better times of the past.
It is authoritarianism empowered by a willingness of people to lie to themselves out of pride and fear.
Fascism isn't at all left-wing, but it does like to present itself as a populist movement representing the "one true people", leading to situations where it can emulate some aspects of left-wing terminology.
I think that to understand why it arose in Italy we have to take into account the environment that made World War I possible. IMO it was the moment in History where weapons technology advancements greatly exceeded the political and social wisdom that it demands. Governments saw themselves as entitled to wage into pride-motivated bloodbaths mainly because they just did not know better, nor did the communities that they represented.
That led to levels of carnage and ruin that were utterly traumatic to much of Europe, including Italy. The ability to deal with the reality of facts suffered and the attachment to promises of easy, convenient (and if at all possible also proud) ways forward became a significant temptation.
Fascism is the path that arises from the expression of those fears by way of nationalism and militarism. It is a spasm of insanity made possible by feelings of vulnerability and "unrespected" superiority.
Fascism was derived from malignant nationalism, which itself was originally derived from liberal nationalism. Nationalism usually entails deep patriotism, love of nation, pride in national heritage - usually defined by ethnicity or language. Communism, socialism, and also capitalism refer to economic theories and systems - which may or may not be nationalist or internationalist.
I think nationalism in both Germany and Italy came about when both countries pushed for the unification of all independent states which spoke the same language. In Italy, they wanted all Italian-speaking people under a single government and banner, just as in Germany, there was a strong push to put all German-speaking people under a single government and banner. Nationalism was also manifested in multinational empires, such as Russia and Austria-Hungary, where Polish-speaking people might have felt oppressed and wanted their own national independence. It was similar for Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Serbians who also fell under the thumb of larger empires (the Ottoman Empire was also another multinational empire).
Nationalism can be very compelling, both for those who are oppressed and those who are oppressors. In Britain, they might say "Rule Britannia," and in the U.S., we had "Manifest Destiny," which are also nationalistic concepts.
Of course, in the US, France, and Britain, they had huge territories teeming with resources and wealth - along with somewhat of a head start over other European powers, so they became wealthy and powerful, which put them in a better position to be able to afford certain luxuries like freedom and liberalism (but only for the people they considered to be part of their race or nationality, which is a key component of nationalism).
In countries like Germany and Italy, they might feel a certain sense of national pride and think, "Well, we could be just as powerful and as great as Britain," which was at the peak of her power and global success at the time. So, in order to do that, there was a certain belief that they had to get tougher, stronger, leaner, and meaner. The militarism and strict discipline associated with fascism is associated with that belief.
Also, the monied aristocratic and capitalist classes were deathly afraid of international socialism and the threat that their exploited and underpaid masses might be enticed by some agitators from Moscow telling to rise up and overthrow their aristocratic overlords. In that sense, fascism and nationalism became opiates for the masses to latch on to, to give them a sense of pride and patriotism that they were born into a "special" race and a great nation. The capitalist owners had to make some compromises with fascism (to their great discredit), but in their eyes, it was probably better to do that than to lose everything in a socialist revolution.
Thanks to Italian Fascism, Italians have now a public pension system and free universal healthcare.
Which many, many, many countries in the world don't have.
Thanks to Italian Fascism, Italian lands were expropriated from aristocracy and given to the commoners.
Nobody denies the imperialism, the horrors of WW2, the horrors of the War of Ethiopia.
Nobody denies the crimes committed by the fascist squads.
History is made up of shades of grey. It's not either all black or either all white.
Which many, many, many countries in the world don't have.
Thanks to Italian Fascism, Italian lands were expropriated from aristocracy and given to the commoners.
Nobody denies the imperialism, the horrors of WW2, the horrors of the War of Ethiopia.
Nobody denies the crimes committed by the fascist squads.
History is made up of shades of grey. It's not either all black or either all white.
Yes.
Mussolini was a socialist.
He was with the people. He used to nickname the industrial élites "masters" in a pejorative way.
He was arrested in 1909 for defending farm workers' right to strike.
This video speaks volumes. No President of the United States would have done this. To show he was one of the people.
What Prime Minister would have done this at that time?
Massimo2002
Active Member
Indeed what a fascinating video.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Beware of those who seem to have love affairs with fascists like Mussolini:
- Over 300,000 people were killed during Mussolini's regime.
- Approximately 30,000 Italians were executed for political reasons.
- More than 9,000 Jews were deported to concentration camps under Mussolini's rule.
- Around 10,000 Ethiopians were killed during the Italian invasion of Ethiopia.
- Over 100,000 Libyans died during the Italian colonization of Libya.
- Thousands of anti-fascist partisans were executed or killed in combat.
- Over 5,000 Slovenes and Croats were killed by Italian forces in occupied territories.
- Approximately 2,000 Greeks were executed during the Italian occupation of Greece.
- More than 1,000 Eritreans were killed during the Italian colonization of Eritrea.
- Countless others suffered from persecution, torture, and imprisonment. -- https://atonce.com/blog/how-many-pe...Crimes ... 5 Collaboration with Nazi Germany
...and another: Mussolini’s Willing Executioners: The Genocide Of Italy’s Jews
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You would be surprised how similar socialism and fascism is in appearance.
Two sides of the same coin.
Socialism and fascism: Two sides of the same coin - Libertarian Europe
If we think of what has been the European political debate throughout the last century, undoubtedly, we could not fail to consider it as the product of two big apparently opposite ideologies: socialism and fascism. They have characterized—and they still characterise—, the political life of a...
libertarianeurope.com
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
There are numerous forms of "socialism" as one can read here: Socialism - Wikipedia
The US dropped two atomic bombs on two Japanese cities.
Inhabited by innocent civilians who wanted peace.
Not one. Two.
Do you really think that Italian Fascists were worse?
Please.
Because they like having a charismatic, authoritarian leader (a Caesar), like war and have dreams of the Roman Empire.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
The name is derived from the fasces - bundles of reeds gathered round an axe, which Roman magistrates carried as a symbol of their authority. So yeah, the whole thing had a lot to do with trying to reclaim the glory that was Rome, in a country that had been united for only a short time, and had endured over a century of war and revolution.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Mussolini was a great example of that.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The Japanese government at that time had an unconscionably brutal imperial mindset and brutal was a massive understatement as to how the Japanese treated their enemies.The US dropped two atomic bombs on two Japanese cities.
Inhabited by innocent civilians who wanted peace.
Not one. Two.
Do you really think that Italian Fascists were worse?
Please.
The talk of using nuclear options that in effect would of shortened the war and saved more lives in the long term is debatable , but it did take Japan out of ww2 in good fashion but at a terrible cost, which in hindsight might of had people doing it differently if one could go back into time.
It was one of those situations where essentially nobody wins even if the desired result was accomplished.
It's true.
But it was August 1945.
Japan had been basically defeated.
It was not an Empire any more.
Soviet Russia would have occupied it. The US would have watched the show.
No.
The Americans needed to test the effects of two kinds of atomic bombs on humans.
Just that.