Why did WTC 7 Collapse from fire but not Grenfell Tower?

[ronki23]

I'm not a conspiracy but I wonder why all the World Trade Center towers collapsed from fire but the Grenfell Tower kept standing after being on fire for so many hours.

 

[Woberts]

Grenfell didn't have planes rammed into it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Almost certainly a different method of construction too. You would need to talk to an architect or engineer that was familiar with both. From my understanding the Twin Towers had a unique design to allow its greater height. Also it appears that they were very different fires. The Twin Towers was an internal fire and the Grenfell Tower was largely an external fire:

Grenfell Tower fire - Wikipedia

Since one sees the outside of a building an external fire can look more severe than an internal one.

 

[ronki23]

Grenfell didn't have planes rammed into it.

The WTC fell from the fire, not from the force of the planes. And WTC 7 wasn't hit by any planes; just flaming debris.

I'm not a conspiracist, just want to understand why so I can debunk them

 

[Subduction Zone]

The WTC fell from the fire, not from the force of the planes. And WTC 7 wasn't hit by any planes; just flaming debris.

I'm not a conspiracist, just want to understand why so I can debunk them

The interior heat of the fire, which burned uncontrolled long after the planes hit them, cause the floor joists to weaken and deform until they failed. When one floor failed that was it. The energy and momentum did not go away and there was simply more and more mass falling down totally overwhelming the floors below.

EDIT: Again Wikipedia can be a very good starting point:

Collapse of the World Trade Center - Wikipedia

They also have links to their sources so if you want more detail follow the links.

 

[Nous]

I'm not a conspiracist, just want to understand why so I can debunk them

So you think that there was no conspiracy involved in the events of 9/11, that 19 young men all independently decided to hijack commercial airliners and fly them into buildings on the same morning?

What could be stranger than that?

 

[Nous]

The interior heat of the fire, which burned uncontrolled long after the planes hit them, cause the floor joists to weaken and deform until they failed. When one floor failed that was it. The energy and momentum did not go away and there was simply more and more mass falling down totally overwhelming the floors below.

EDIT: Again Wikipedia can be a very good starting point:

Collapse of the World Trade Center - Wikipedia

They also have links to their sources so if you want more detail follow the links.

The thread title specifically asks about WTC 7. You have no explanation for that building suddenly dropping into its footprint?

Do you know of any evidence that highrise steel-frame buildings can crush themselves when steel members in the top third of the building deforms from heat?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The thread title specifically asks about WTC 7. You have no explanation for that building suddenly dropping into its footprint?

Do you know of any evidence that highrise steel-frame buildings can crush themselves when steel members in the top third of the building deforms from heat?

Sorry, I misread. It is still essentially the same thing. WTC 7 also had an unchecked fire raging in it that could not be put out. Also the structure had been changed since construction with entire floors removed. There is no need to rely on conspiracy theories to explain why the building collapsed.


The fire at the Grenville Towers was largely an external one. To the untrained observer it will look worse often than a fire that is internal.

Do you think there was a conspiracy involved?

 

[Nous]

Sorry, I misread. It is still essentially the same thing. WTC 7 also had an unchecked fire raging in it that could not be put out.

WTC 7 suddenly dropped into its footprint, falling at free fall rate for some 2.5 seconds, according to NIST. That means that there was no resistance beneath that free-falling portion of the building. How do you account for that? NIST was unable to account for that fact.

NIST was unable to account for the crushing of the Twin Towers, and didn't attempt to do so.

How do you account for the active thermitic material found in the dust of the WTC disaster?

Do you think there was a conspiracy involved?

Of course I do!!!! Nineteen men did not independently decide to hijack commercial airliners and fly them into buildings on the same morning!!! The "official" theory of what happened on 9/11 is that those events were the result of a conspiracy!

Do you disbelieve that there was a conspiracy involved in the events of 9/11?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you know of any evidence that highrise steel-frame buildings can crush themselves when steel members in the top third of the building deforms from heat?

I forget which of the two towers it was, but you can watch it collapse basically floor-by-floor once the top levels failed and collapsed.

 

[exchemist]

I'm not a conspiracy but I wonder why all the World Trade Center towers collapsed from fire but the Grenfell Tower kept standing after being on fire for so many hours.

WTC were steel framed structures and burned with thousands of gallons of jet fuel on the inside, weakening the steel.

Grenfell Tower was a far smaller structure made of just reinforced concrete, and the fire was just some plastic cladding up the exterior, which was not load bearing.

Not comparable at all.

 

[Nous]

I forget which of the two towers it was, but you can watch it collapse basically floor-by-floor once the top levels failed and collapsed.

When you find a video that accounts for why any steel-frame highrise crushed itself from the top down, be sure and provide a link. If you ever come across any scientific evidence showing that such things happen, be sure to link to that.

Why couldn't NIST account for this self-crushing behavior?

How do you account for the active thermitic material found in the WTC dust?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nineteen men did not independently decide to hijack commercial airliners and fly them into buildings on the same morning!!!

No, they didn't act independently. Al-Qeada was involved, with Bin Laden as a central figure in planning the attack, and their are the questions of of Saudi involvement. And you have to remember that in such an extreme interpretation of Islam, not only is sacrificing yourself for Islam give you a guaranteed place in eternal Paradise, taking as many infidels with you as possible makes your sacrifice all the more honorable and noble. We also know Bin Laden wanted to defeat America from within by provoking it into a prolonged war that would be unwinnable for either side, but would prove devastating and detrimental to the American economy. Even the ancient Chinese knew that prolonged wars are bad for the state, and dragging America into a prolonged war was essentially the goal of 9/11.

 

[Nous]

WTC were steel framed structures and burned with thousands of gallons of jet fuel on the inside, weakening the steel.

As noted, the thread title specifies WTC 7. So you have no explanation as to why it suddenly dropped into its footprint?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When you find a video that accounts for why any steel-frame highrise crushed itself from the top down, be sure and provide a link.

There is a video in the "I can't stand 9/11 debunkers" thread that shows steel becomes malleable and weak long before it melts, to point the guy bent the heated steel using his pinky.

How do you account for the active thermitic material found in the WTC dust?

Welding leaves it behind, as does heating metals. It has been demonstrated you can produce these using steel wool and a lighter.

 

[Nous]

No, they didn't act independently. Al-Qeada was involved, with Bin Laden as a central figure in planning the attack, and their are the questions of of Saudi involvement. And you have to remember that in such an extreme interpretation of Islam, not only is sacrificing yourself for Islam give you a guaranteed place in eternal Paradise, taking as many infidels with you as possible makes your sacrifice all the more honorable and noble. We also know Bin Laden wanted to defeat America from within by provoking it into a prolonged war that would be unwinnable for either side, but would prove devastating and detrimental to the American economy. Even the ancient Chinese knew that prolonged wars are bad for the state, and dragging America into a prolonged war was essentially the goal of 9/11.

You've described a conspiracy here.

 

[exchemist]

WTC 7 suddenly dropped into its footprint, falling at free fall rate for some 2.5 seconds, according to NIST. That means that there was no resistance beneath that free-falling portion of the building. How do you account for that? NIST was unable to account for that fact.

NIST was unable to account for the crushing of the Twin Towers, and didn't attempt to do so.

How do you account for the active thermitic material found in the dust of the WTC disaster?

Of course I do!!!! Nineteen men did not independently decide to hijack commercial airliners and fly them into buildings on the same morning!!! The "official" theory of what happened on 9/11 is that those events were the result of a conspiracy!

Do you disbelieve that there was a conspiracy involved in the events of 9/11?

Readers, the link is to a journal of no repute called the Open Chemical Physics Journal, based in Sharjah, UAE. It was listed on Beall's List of probable predatory journals.

Bentham Science Publishers - Wikipedia

Anything published there has no credibility, obviously.

 

[Revoltingest]

WTC 7 suddenly dropped into its footprint, falling at free fall rate for some 2.5 seconds, according to NIST. That means that there was no resistance beneath that free-falling portion of the building. How do you account for that? NIST was unable to account for that fact.

NIST was unable to account for the crushing of the Twin Towers, and didn't attempt to do so.

How do you account for the active thermitic material found in the dust of the WTC disaster?

Of course I do!!!! Nineteen men did not independently decide to hijack commercial airliners and fly them into buildings on the same morning!!! The "official" theory of what happened on 9/11 is that those events were the result of a conspiracy!

Do you disbelieve that there was a conspiracy involved in the events of 9/11?

In the context of 9/11, the term "conspiracy" typically applies to blaming the
government, the Jews, the landlord, etc for controlled demolition of the building.
The terrorists certainly conspired to do what they did, but this just isn't what we
debunkers are including when criticizing "conspiracy theories".

 

[Subduction Zone]

WTC 7 suddenly dropped into its footprint, falling at free fall rate for some 2.5 seconds, according to NIST. That means that there was no resistance beneath that free-falling portion of the building. How do you account for that? NIST was unable to account for that fact.

NIST was unable to account for the crushing of the Twin Towers, and didn't attempt to do so.

How do you account for the active thermitic material found in the dust of the WTC disaster?

Of course I do!!!! Nineteen men did not independently decide to hijack commercial airliners and fly them into buildings on the same morning!!! The "official" theory of what happened on 9/11 is that those events were the result of a conspiracy!

Do you disbelieve that there was a conspiracy involved in the events of 9/11?

That does not look like a very reliable source. First I checked the source's impact factor. It is abysmally low:

https://www.researchgate.net/journal/1874-4125_The_Open_Chemical_Physics_Journal

That means that no one in the sciences seems to take that journal very seriously. Second I read up on it a bit and RationalWiki agrees:

Bentham Science Publishers - RationalWiki

"This aroused the interest of the curious, and Bentham was busted in 2009 accepting a paper for the Open Information Science Journal consisting of random sentences computer-generated with SCIgen, whose imaginary authors both worked at the Center for Research in Applied Phrenology (CRAP).[6][7] The editor of said journal also quit when he found out what the publisher had done.[8] Bentham's director of publication claimed they merely sent a fake acceptance to flush out the hoaxer,[4] but no-one believes him."

It fails the requirement of being a well respected professional journal. Pay for publish houses will and have published almost anything.

 

[exchemist]

As noted, the thread title specifies WTC 7. So you have no explanation as to why it suddenly dropped into its footprint?

I was answering the question posed in the OP.

I have no wish to help you hijack the thread into yet another airing of idiotic conspiracy theories concerning 9/11.