Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Skywalker]

You've got me confused with someone else. I don't even believe in Jesus Christ. I think he was the product of the gospel writers' imaginations based on lots of legends a myths floating around at that time about a dying rising god who got crucified.

"The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors" 1875 book written by Kersey Graves, which asserts that Jesus was not an actual person, but was a creation largely based on earlier stories of deities or god-men saviours who had been crucified and descended to and ascended from the underworld.

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors - Wikipedia

What parallels exist between Jesus and dying and rising gods? Jesus Vs Baal – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

Baal is sometimes reckoned as one of those “dying and rising gods” under Frazer’s outdated thesis. It should first be noted that the actual tablets describing Baal’s story do not actually preserve an account of Baal’s death and supposed return to life; that portion of the tablets are lost, and the events are inferred from remaining parts of the story.

In what we have left, Baal is discovered dead and given a burial; but later in the narrative, he reappears alive. In other works, if a certain verb is read as passive, it MAY refer to Baal as “brought to life,” but it may also be an active verb describing Baal as one who “brings to life.”

Secondarily, one of Baal’s daughters is named “Earthy” but the name MAY mean “Netherworldly.” And that is the sum and total of the evidence. In 70+ other texts about Baal, there is no mention of his death at all.

Anything like Christ? Not at all, and no more even on the surface than the naturally-expected theme of reversal of death as the ultimate bugaboo; no more an imitation of Christ than your latest zombie creature feature. Smith, seemingly with pagan-mythers in mind, writes: “…any attempt to render a reconstruction of Baal’s death and return to life should make no assumption about the nature of the latter.” [120]

 

[Onoma]

Well, kings are welcome to search out the glory of God's secret matters all they want. For us ordinary folks we want concrete proof

Right, " concrete proof ", that's why I mentioned mathematics, since the only " concrete " proofs that are able to be offered aren't scientific ( No such thing as " scientific proof " exists ), but mathematical

I could propose a Gedanken that is usually not thought of:

Hypothetically - let's say the Bible actually contains a hidden mathematical proof

 

[Subduction Zone]

Right, " concrete proof ", that's why I mentioned mathematics, since the only " concrete " proofs that are able to be offered aren't scientific ( No such thing as " scientific proof " exists ), but mathematical

There is no mathematical proof for the Bible either.

 

[Onoma]

There is no mathematical proof for the Bible either.

There's no known proof, however this doesn't exclude the possibility

 

[Subduction Zone]

There's no known proof, however this doesn't exclude the possibility

Yes, and it is just as likely that monkey will come flying out of my but . . . Nope, still has not happened.

 

[Skywalker]

Sin is separation from God. That separation is the cause of bad actions — not the other way round. Jesus was killed through bad actions born of hubris, oppression, jealousy, hate, fear, etc.

Jesus can cleanse us from all sin. And that means all sin. The only way a holy God can let us into heaven is if we are clean of all of the sin we have committed in our lifetime. That's why our "good works" will never be enough to allow us into the presence of an all-holy God.

 

[Onoma]

Yes, and it is just as likely that monkey will come flying out of my but . . . Nope, still has not happened.

I'd imagine it would be as shocking as monkeys coming out of your anus, yes

 

[sojourner]

The more time it takes for a manuscript to be written, the less likely it is to be accurate

You’re thinking in modern, literate terms. “Accuracy” as in word-for-word, wasn’t on the ancients’ radar. These stories were told long before they were written, snd what was important was the jist, not the picayune details. Plus, you’d be amazed at how accurately an oral culture passes along such storytelling information. So the “length of time” argument is rather a moot point for the Gospels.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'd imagine it would be as shocking as monkeys coming out of your anus, yes

People cannot even begin to reason on how to mathematically prove the Bible. But there are quite a few obvious failures.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus can cleanse us from all sin. And that means all sin. The only way a holy God can let us into heaven is if we are clean of all of the sin we have committed in our lifetime. That's why our "good works" will never be enough to allow us into the presence of an all-holy God.

This really isn’t germane to my post.

 

[Onoma]

People cannot even begin to reason on how to mathematically prove the Bible

Really ?

How did you come to that conclusion ?

 

[rational experiences]

That's why Jesus died to reconcile God and man. Inner separation and self-centeredness goes against God's laws.

Laws are also about being just. That's why God came down to die for our sins. We could never pay the price for our sins as finite beings, and God could never ignore our sin, for the same reason a just judge cannot let a criminal go unpunished.

Rational thinking advice.

My brother is human my life equal.

He thought unnaturally for science machines designed by human. Not God.

God bring a really powerful mass of energy proved him wrong. Took his life and you claim that lesson was needed.

As a sane living human who believes in family I believe humans are my extended family. I don't hurt my family I love them.

To learn a lesson meant it was learnt.

Science today proves the brothers who never learnt the lesson Jesus now want to learn it for their own human man selves.

Argument was Jesus a man.

You said he was scientist a man your brother.

Was science God.

No. What you lie about as a coercer.

You said the only son man of God in heavens owned light sacrifice.

O earth stone.
Heavens from stone.
Clear cold not sacrificed. Sun sacrificed half the mass.

God owned sacrifice of spirit. You naturally owned it as a natural man.

Science tried to give natural light to his machines.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Really ?

How did you come to that conclusion ?

People make ridiculous claims. They are refuted. That is how I came to that conclusion.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Right, " concrete proof ", that's why I mentioned mathematics, since the only " concrete " proofs that are able to be offered aren't scientific ( No such thing as " scientific proof " exists ), but mathematical

Have you seen anything in the Bible that displays a mathematical code that is so incredible it would have to be supernatural i.e. could only come from God? Back in the 80's there was the Bible Codes equidistance lettering that supposedly gave all sorts of future predictions including the date of the rapture. Naturally it was a crock of bunk but Michael Drosnin the author made a pile of cash off book sales.

 

[Onoma]

People make ridiculous claims. They are refuted. That is how I came to that conclusion.

Yeah ?

I call your bluff

Give me an example of a rigorous proof that someone presented

Not " The Bible is holy because ____ added to _____ equals _____ ", that's just wonk numerology

Give me a single example of a rigorous mathematical proof someone has prepared and presented

Just one

 

[Onoma]

Have you seen anything in the Bible that displays a mathematical code that is so incredible it would have to be supernatural i.e. could only come from God? Back in the 80's there was the Bible Codes equidistance lettering that supposedly gave all sorts of future predictions including the date of the rapture. Naturally it was a crock of bunk but Michael Drosnin the author made a pile of cash off book sales.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with ELS fallacies

That's no rigorous proof, just whackball numerology

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

What parallels exist between Jesus and dying and rising gods? Jesus Vs Baal – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

You need to read the Ranks-Ragland hero archetype scale

Lord Raglan, in 1936, developed a 22-point myth-ritualist Hero archetype to account for common patterns across Indo-European cultures for Hero traditions, following myth-ritualists like James Frazer and S. H. Hooke:[2]

1. Mother is a royal virgin
2. Father is a king
3. Father often a near relative to mother
4. Unusual conception
5. Hero reputed to be son of god
6. Attempt to kill hero as an infant, often by father or maternal grandfather
7. Hero spirited away as a child
8. Reared by foster parents in a far country
9. No details of childhood
10. Returns or goes to future kingdom
11. Is victor over king, giant, dragon or wild beast
12. Marries a princess (often daughter of predecessor)
13. Becomes king
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully
15. He prescribes laws
16. Later loses favor with gods or his subjects
17. Driven from throne and city
18. Meets with mysterious death
19. Often at the top of a hill
20. His children, if any, do not succeed him
21. His body is not buried
22. Has one or more holy sepulchers or tombs

Rank–Raglan mythotype - Wikipedia

 

[Skywalker]

This really isn’t germane to my post.

How is it not germane? Consider this: if you take a burnt cake and put white icing on it, how does it look? Sure, it looks good on the outside, but when you take a bite of it, how does it taste? Probably most of us have taken a bite out of a burnt cookie or piece of cake, and were happy until we hit the burnt part. It tastes horrible. It's the same way with good works: If we are trusting our good deeds to gain us entrance into heaven, we try to look good on the outside. On the inside, however, we are still nasty and horrible because we're still breaking the Ten Commandments day by day.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah ?

I call your bluff

Give me an example of a rigorous proof that someone presented

Not " The Bible is holy because ____ added to _____ equals _____ ", that's just wonk numerology

Give me a single example of a rigorous mathematical proof someone has prepared and presented

Just one

That is foolish because no such "proof" would prove the Bible. Like most you have the burden of proof backwards. You appear to be as bad of a failure as any of the various "Bible Codes" out there.

 

[Skywalker]

You need to read the Ranks-Ragland hero archetype scale

Lord Raglan, in 1936, developed a 22-point myth-ritualist Hero archetype to account for common patterns across Indo-European cultures for Hero traditions, following myth-ritualists like James Frazer and S. H. Hooke:[2]

1. Mother is a royal virgin
2. Father is a king
3. Father often a near relative to mother
4. Unusual conception
5. Hero reputed to be son of god
6. Attempt to kill hero as an infant, often by father or maternal grandfather
7. Hero spirited away as a child
8. Reared by foster parents in a far country
9. No details of childhood
10. Returns or goes to future kingdom
11. Is victor over king, giant, dragon or wild beast
12. Marries a princess (often daughter of predecessor)
13. Becomes king
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully
15. He prescribes laws
16. Later loses favor with gods or his subjects
17. Driven from throne and city
18. Meets with mysterious death
19. Often at the top of a hill
20. His children, if any, do not succeed him
21. His body is not buried
22. Has one or more holy sepulchers or tombs

Rank–Raglan mythotype - Wikipedia

A lot of those are explained by situations that happened in the stories of superhero and myth stories coincidentally would be similar to God if God is a Savior.