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Why didn't god stop Super Storm Sandy?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
He saw it was headed towards Wall Street.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Little bit of over-kill, then.
It's a kind of punishment the God sometimes punish in the world also. But if you ask me why innocent people also die or suffer from this catastroph then for them it is a kind of purification their goods lost in the storm have been considered as the gift given to the poor people if an innocent dies in a such storm we can consider him as purified from his sins.
Bediuzzaman explains better than me in the paragraph below
Third Question: What is the reason for this disaster, which arises from the wrongdoing of a few individuals, occurring to some degree in general fashion in the country?
The Answer: The general disaster results from the wrongdoing of the majority: most people in effect participate in the actions of those tyrannical individuals by supporting them either actively or morally or in some connection.
l Fourth Question: Since this disaster of an earthquake results from wrongdoing and is atonement for sins, why are the innocent and those not at fault struck by it? How does Divine justice permit this?
The Answer, again in regard to its meaning: Since this matter is concerned with the mystery of Divine Determining, we refer you to the Risale-i Nur and here only say this:
And fear tumult or oppression, which affects not in particular [only] those of you who do wrong.25
That is, Beware of the calamity or disaster which when it occurs is not restricted to wrongdoers but strikes also the innocent.
The meaning of this verse is as follows: this world is a field of trial and examination, and a place of obligation and struggle. Obligation and examination require that reality remains veiled so that through competition and struggle the Abu Bakr's may rise to the Highest of the High and the Abu Jahl's may enter among the Lowest of the Low. If the innocent remained untouched in such disasters, the Abu Jahl's would submit just like the Abu Bakr's, and the door of spiritual and moral progress through struggle would be closed and the mystery of obligation spoiled.
Since Divine wisdom requires that oppressed and oppressor are together afflicted by disaster, what then is the share of the wretched oppressed of Divine mercy and justice?
It was said in reply to this question: for them there is a manifestation of mercy within the wrath and anger in the disaster. For just as the transient property of the innocent becomes like alms and gains permanence, the relatively little and temporary difficulty and torment is a form of martyrdom for them which gains also for their transient lives a permanent life. The earthquake gains for them a great and perpetual profit, and so for them is an instance of Divine mercy within the wrath.
l Fifth Question: Why does the One Who is All-Just and All-Compassionate, All-Powerful and All-Wise, not give particular punishments for particular wrongs, but inflicts a mighty element? How is this in keeping with the beauty of His mercy and His all-encompassing power?
The Answer: The All-Powerful One of Glory gives numerous duties to each element and causes them to produce numerous results through each duty. If one result of one of an element's duties is ugly, evil, or calamitous, the other good results make this result good also. If the element, which is angry at man, is prevented from that duty so that the single ugly result will not occur, then instances of good to the number of the good results will be abandoned, and so since not doing a necessary good is evil, instances of evil will be done to the number of the instances of good. A single evil not occurring would be extremely ugly, contrary to wisdom, contrary to reality, and a fault. And power, wisdom and reality are free of fault. Since certain faults are rebellion comprehensive enough to cause the earth and elements to become angry, and are insulting aggression infringing the rights of numerous creatures, for sure, in order to demonstrate the extraordinary ugliness of that crime, the command being given to a mighty element to "reprimand them" among its other general duties, is perfect wisdom and justice, and for the oppressed, perfect mercy.
l Sixth Question: The neglectful and heedless put it about that the earthquake resulted from a fault in the rock strata inside the earth, and look upon it as quite simply a chance event, natural, and without purpose. They do not see the non-material causes and results, so that they can come to their senses. Does 'matter', on which they base their views, have some reality?
The Answer: It has no reality other than misguidance for the following reason. Take the fly out of all the species on the earth, which each year is clothed in and changes more than fifty million finely embroidered well-ordered shirts: the intention, will, purpose, and wisdom manifested on the wing of a single fly, which is only one organ out of hundreds of one individual fly out of the countless numbers of all flies on the face of the earth, the fact that it is not neglected or left to its own devices, shows that the significant acts and states of the huge globe of the earth, which is the cradle, mother, place of recourse, and protector of innumerable conscious beings - no aspect of it whether particular or universal - can be outside the Divine will, choice, and purpose. However, as is required by His wisdom, the Possessor of Absolute Power makes apparent causes a veil to His disposals. When He wills an earthquake, and sometimes He does, He commands the movement of the strata and ignites it. And so, even if it results from this movement or a fault in the strata, it is still at the Divine command and in accordance with His wisdom; it cannot occur in any other way.
For example, one man shot another with a rifle. If the man who fired the shot is entirely disregarded, and only taken into consideration is the gunpowder in the bullet igniting, the rights of the wretched victim would be completely violated, and it would be the epitome of foolishness. In just the same way, to forget the Dominical command concerning the earth, which is a docile official of the All-Powerful One of Glory's, rather, a ship or an aeroplane of His: "Explode a bomb inside the earth prepared through wisdom and will in order to arouse the heedless and the rebellious"; to forget this and to deviate into 'Nature', is the very peak of stupidity.
An Addition and Footnote to the Sixth Question: In order to defend their way and counter the awakening of the believers and hinder them, the people of misguidance and the atheists display an obduracy so strange and a stupidity so peculiar that it makes a person regret his humanity. For example, in order to make men give up their wicked and wrongful rebellion which recently has to a degree taken on a general form, and to arouse mankind and make it forego this awesome revolt and recognize the universe's Sovereign, Whom it does not want to recognize, the Creator of the heavens and the earth - not on account of a particular title but as Sustainer and Ruler of the whole universe and all the worlds and through a widespread and general manifestation throughout the universe in the universal sphere of His Dominicality - has struck mankind in the face with awesome and widespread calamities like earthquakes, storms, and world wars through the universal elements coming to anger - through water, the air, and electricity, which are matchless and constant, and has demonstrated through them in most clear fashion His Wisdom, Power, Justice, and Self-Subsistence. Although this is the case, certain brainless satans in human form respond to these universal Dominical signs and divine reprimands with a foolish obstinacy, saying:
"It's Nature. It's an explosion of some strata under the earth and just chance. It's the sun's heat clashing with electricity, which happened in America and brought all machinery to a standstill for five hours, and also caused the atmosphere in Kastamonu Province to turn red and take on the appearance of a conflagration." They utter meaningless nonsense like this Due to a boundless ignorance resulting from misguidance and an ugly obduracy arising from aggressive atheism, they do not know that causes are only each a pretext and a veil. A small seed taking the place of a village full of factories and looms to weave and produce the members of a pine tree as large as a mountain shows this. Saying, "The tree emerged from the seed", they in effect deny the thousand miracles displayed in the pine tree, and put forward a number of apparent causes. They reduce to nothing a huge Dominical act worked through the Creator's will and wisdom. Sometimes they attach a scientific name to a most profound, unknowable, and most important truth which has purposes in a thousand respects, as though through the name it has been understood. Whereas it is merely made commonplace, without purpose, wisdom, and meaning.
So, come and see the innumerable degrees of s...... and f.........! They attach a name to a truth so profound and broad and unknown that only if it and its purposes and instances of wisdom were described in a hundred pages, it would be completely understood. As though it was something obvious they say: "It is this." For example, "It is some substance in the sun clashing with electricity.",................... ....................................
Risale-i Nur Collection
Bediuzzaman explains better than me in the paragraph below
Third Question: What is the reason for this disaster, which arises from the wrongdoing of a few individuals, occurring to some degree in general fashion in the country?
The Answer: The general disaster results from the wrongdoing of the majority: most people in effect participate in the actions of those tyrannical individuals by supporting them either actively or morally or in some connection.
l Fourth Question: Since this disaster of an earthquake results from wrongdoing and is atonement for sins, why are the innocent and those not at fault struck by it? How does Divine justice permit this?
The Answer, again in regard to its meaning: Since this matter is concerned with the mystery of Divine Determining, we refer you to the Risale-i Nur and here only say this:
And fear tumult or oppression, which affects not in particular [only] those of you who do wrong.25
That is, Beware of the calamity or disaster which when it occurs is not restricted to wrongdoers but strikes also the innocent.
The meaning of this verse is as follows: this world is a field of trial and examination, and a place of obligation and struggle. Obligation and examination require that reality remains veiled so that through competition and struggle the Abu Bakr's may rise to the Highest of the High and the Abu Jahl's may enter among the Lowest of the Low. If the innocent remained untouched in such disasters, the Abu Jahl's would submit just like the Abu Bakr's, and the door of spiritual and moral progress through struggle would be closed and the mystery of obligation spoiled.
Since Divine wisdom requires that oppressed and oppressor are together afflicted by disaster, what then is the share of the wretched oppressed of Divine mercy and justice?
It was said in reply to this question: for them there is a manifestation of mercy within the wrath and anger in the disaster. For just as the transient property of the innocent becomes like alms and gains permanence, the relatively little and temporary difficulty and torment is a form of martyrdom for them which gains also for their transient lives a permanent life. The earthquake gains for them a great and perpetual profit, and so for them is an instance of Divine mercy within the wrath.
l Fifth Question: Why does the One Who is All-Just and All-Compassionate, All-Powerful and All-Wise, not give particular punishments for particular wrongs, but inflicts a mighty element? How is this in keeping with the beauty of His mercy and His all-encompassing power?
The Answer: The All-Powerful One of Glory gives numerous duties to each element and causes them to produce numerous results through each duty. If one result of one of an element's duties is ugly, evil, or calamitous, the other good results make this result good also. If the element, which is angry at man, is prevented from that duty so that the single ugly result will not occur, then instances of good to the number of the good results will be abandoned, and so since not doing a necessary good is evil, instances of evil will be done to the number of the instances of good. A single evil not occurring would be extremely ugly, contrary to wisdom, contrary to reality, and a fault. And power, wisdom and reality are free of fault. Since certain faults are rebellion comprehensive enough to cause the earth and elements to become angry, and are insulting aggression infringing the rights of numerous creatures, for sure, in order to demonstrate the extraordinary ugliness of that crime, the command being given to a mighty element to "reprimand them" among its other general duties, is perfect wisdom and justice, and for the oppressed, perfect mercy.
l Sixth Question: The neglectful and heedless put it about that the earthquake resulted from a fault in the rock strata inside the earth, and look upon it as quite simply a chance event, natural, and without purpose. They do not see the non-material causes and results, so that they can come to their senses. Does 'matter', on which they base their views, have some reality?
The Answer: It has no reality other than misguidance for the following reason. Take the fly out of all the species on the earth, which each year is clothed in and changes more than fifty million finely embroidered well-ordered shirts: the intention, will, purpose, and wisdom manifested on the wing of a single fly, which is only one organ out of hundreds of one individual fly out of the countless numbers of all flies on the face of the earth, the fact that it is not neglected or left to its own devices, shows that the significant acts and states of the huge globe of the earth, which is the cradle, mother, place of recourse, and protector of innumerable conscious beings - no aspect of it whether particular or universal - can be outside the Divine will, choice, and purpose. However, as is required by His wisdom, the Possessor of Absolute Power makes apparent causes a veil to His disposals. When He wills an earthquake, and sometimes He does, He commands the movement of the strata and ignites it. And so, even if it results from this movement or a fault in the strata, it is still at the Divine command and in accordance with His wisdom; it cannot occur in any other way.
For example, one man shot another with a rifle. If the man who fired the shot is entirely disregarded, and only taken into consideration is the gunpowder in the bullet igniting, the rights of the wretched victim would be completely violated, and it would be the epitome of foolishness. In just the same way, to forget the Dominical command concerning the earth, which is a docile official of the All-Powerful One of Glory's, rather, a ship or an aeroplane of His: "Explode a bomb inside the earth prepared through wisdom and will in order to arouse the heedless and the rebellious"; to forget this and to deviate into 'Nature', is the very peak of stupidity.
An Addition and Footnote to the Sixth Question: In order to defend their way and counter the awakening of the believers and hinder them, the people of misguidance and the atheists display an obduracy so strange and a stupidity so peculiar that it makes a person regret his humanity. For example, in order to make men give up their wicked and wrongful rebellion which recently has to a degree taken on a general form, and to arouse mankind and make it forego this awesome revolt and recognize the universe's Sovereign, Whom it does not want to recognize, the Creator of the heavens and the earth - not on account of a particular title but as Sustainer and Ruler of the whole universe and all the worlds and through a widespread and general manifestation throughout the universe in the universal sphere of His Dominicality - has struck mankind in the face with awesome and widespread calamities like earthquakes, storms, and world wars through the universal elements coming to anger - through water, the air, and electricity, which are matchless and constant, and has demonstrated through them in most clear fashion His Wisdom, Power, Justice, and Self-Subsistence. Although this is the case, certain brainless satans in human form respond to these universal Dominical signs and divine reprimands with a foolish obstinacy, saying:
"It's Nature. It's an explosion of some strata under the earth and just chance. It's the sun's heat clashing with electricity, which happened in America and brought all machinery to a standstill for five hours, and also caused the atmosphere in Kastamonu Province to turn red and take on the appearance of a conflagration." They utter meaningless nonsense like this Due to a boundless ignorance resulting from misguidance and an ugly obduracy arising from aggressive atheism, they do not know that causes are only each a pretext and a veil. A small seed taking the place of a village full of factories and looms to weave and produce the members of a pine tree as large as a mountain shows this. Saying, "The tree emerged from the seed", they in effect deny the thousand miracles displayed in the pine tree, and put forward a number of apparent causes. They reduce to nothing a huge Dominical act worked through the Creator's will and wisdom. Sometimes they attach a scientific name to a most profound, unknowable, and most important truth which has purposes in a thousand respects, as though through the name it has been understood. Whereas it is merely made commonplace, without purpose, wisdom, and meaning.
So, come and see the innumerable degrees of s...... and f.........! They attach a name to a truth so profound and broad and unknown that only if it and its purposes and instances of wisdom were described in a hundred pages, it would be completely understood. As though it was something obvious they say: "It is this." For example, "It is some substance in the sun clashing with electricity.",................... ....................................
Risale-i Nur Collection
Last edited:
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Just askin'.What do you think his criteria are?
Good question! Can't answer, but just in case somebody can, could they also answer any of the following:-
Why does God send tsunamis?
Why does God send plaques?
Why does God send train wrecks?
Why does God send murderers?
Why does God allow people to die?
S/He was occupied chatting with Job.
McBell
Unbound
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
McBell
Unbound
Yes, I read it.You actually read all that?
I just saw a chunk of text and went past it.
I am utterly amazed that someone would worship any deity that punishes innocents for the sins of the guilty.
Shows that it matters not one bit how devote you are to that deity, your life may very well end simply to punish the sins of someone you never even heard of, let alone met.
Any deity that so arbitrarily kills innocents is no deity I want anything to do with.
You actually read all that?
I just saw a chunk of text and went past it.
I read until the fifth reason part and got bored
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Just askin'.What do you think his criteria are?
Because if there is any such force or entity that could be regarded as "god", it clearly doesn't interact, intervene or interfere with the corporeal realm.
Then you missed such insightful comments as: "Although this is the case, certain brainless satans in human form respond to these universal Dominical signs and divine reprimands with a foolish obstinacy, saying: "It's Nature. It's an explosion of some strata under the earth and just chance.You actually read all that?
I just saw a chunk of text and went past it.
I say: Down with dastardly demons disregarding Dominacal denotations!
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Fortunately, this portrayal of god as an unjust, petty, sadistic, infantile little gremlin is a false one.
Looncall
Well-Known Member
Is this contemptible verbosity typical of muslim scholarship?
Thank you for the comments, I would like to remind you that there is no fortuity in the universe. This storm also has been sent by God. It is a punishment for the people who deserved but for the innocent people it is a reward to be sinless. If you lost your goods in this storm it will be considered as you gave them to a poor people.
If anybody else has another comment I am ready to listen for exemple what is this storm (or the disasters in general) for an atheist or theist?
If anybody else has another comment I am ready to listen for exemple what is this storm (or the disasters in general) for an atheist or theist?
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
The result of climate change, and proof we need to be more responsible.
May I just say that your view that it's ok to kill innocents to get "the people who deserved" is utterly repugnant to this devout believer even before you cliam it was God's doing?
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
That's a pretty bad reward.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you have asked. Would you please be willing to clarify what you are saying?