DefenderOfZion
New Member
There are many things that the Messiah was suppose to do. It seems Jesus failed to do any of them. So why do Christians believe he was the Messiah?
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Why do Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah if he failed to complete the Messianic Prophecies?
- Thread starter DefenderOfZion
- Start date
waitasec
Veteran Member
like what?
There is a standard response (one that I'm sure could be found in the archives) but they often strike me as superficial and anachronistic. I doubt that there was a consensus concerning job description circa 30 ce.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i totally agree with this..which is why i call christianity an edited version of judaism
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
That's what I was going to say. Christians simply redefined what the messiah meant to them. It mainly stems from having a vested interest in Jesus being the messiah, and then going to Hebrew scriptures to find anything at all that may fit with Jesus, whether or not the passages had anything to do with the messiah.
I would say it was out of desperation really.
DefenderOfZion
New Member
But Jesus was a Jew, would he of not understood the prophecies about the Messiah?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Of course. But there's only one place (John 4:25-26) where Jesus claims to be Messiah. There are some allusions to his messiahship built into some gospel pericopae, but nothing definitive from the mouth of Jesus, himself. It does appear as if Jesus is "revamping" the concept of the Messiah, such that the prophetic indicators are "mistaken." I think he does claim to be soter, but in a manner quite different from what's laid out in First Testament prophecy.
Which ones? The ones suggested in the Tanach? The ones suggested in Qumran?
Second Temple Period apocalyptic andmessianic discourse was more fluid and variegated than most people recognize.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
I am not sure exactly why Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah, But I can share why Baha'is Believe Jesus fulfilled the Messiah Prophecy.
For example some of the signs That Jesus outwardly seemd not to fulfill are: "The Messiah will arise out of an unknown city. He shall sit upon the throne of David, and behold, He shall come with a sword of steel, and with a sceptre of iron shall He rule! He shall fulfil the law of the Prophets, He shall conquer the East and the West, and shall glorify His chosen people the Jews. He shall bring with Him a reign of peace, during which even the animals shall cease to be at enmity with man. For behold the wolf and the lamb shall drink from the same spring, and the lion and the doe shall lie down in the same pasture, the serpent and the mouse shall share the same nest, and all God’s creatures shall be at rest."
However Jesus came from Nazareth, no unknown place. He carried no sword in His hand, nor even a stick. He did not sit upon the Throne of David, He was a poor man. He reformed the Law of Moses, and broke the Sabbath Day. He did not conquer the East and the West, but was Himself subject to the Roman Law. He did not exalt the Jews, but taught equality and brotherhood, and rebuked the Scribes and Pharisees. He brought in no reign of peace, for during His lifetime injustice and cruelty reached such a height that even He Himself fell a victim to it, and died a shameful death upon the cross.
It is recorded from Abdulbaha in one of His talks saying:
"Hearken, and I will show you the meaning thereof. Although He came from Nazareth, which was a known place, He also came from Heaven. His body was born of Mary, but His Spirit came from Heaven. The sword He carried was the sword of His tongue, with which He divided the good from the evil, the true from the false, the faithful from the unfaithful, and the light from the darkness. His Word was indeed a sharp sword! The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting. He exalted those Jews who recognized Him. They were men and women of humble birth, but contact with Him made them great and gave them everlasting dignity. The animals who were to live with one another signified the different sects and races, who, once having been at war, were now to dwell in love and charity, drinking together the water of life from Christ the Eternal Spring.
Thus, all the spiritual prophecies concerning the coming of Christ were fulfilled....It is easy to read the Holy Scriptures, but it is only with a clean heart and a pure mind that one may understand their true meaning...."
Reference: Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 54-57
In fact, we believe Christ returned the second time, but this time the Christians did not recognize Him for similar reason!
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It pays repsectful lip service to some Jewish scripture, little else.
Jesus' teachings is that everyone is their own messiah/savior. Stop stealing, stop killing, stop envying, look both ways before you cross the street, dont get caught cheating, be perfect as God is perfect treat people the way you wanna be treated.
Follow the rules of golf and tell on yourself when you make a mistake.
Simple words to save ourselves. No other messiah/savior needed.
Follow the rules of golf and tell on yourself when you make a mistake.
Simple words to save ourselves. No other messiah/savior needed.
Man of Faith
Well-Known Member
Jesus fulfilled many prophesies about the messiah, but he hasn't fulfilled them all yet, give him time, he promised to return and in Revelation it teaches about him bringing peace on earth when he does. When Jesus was crucified, his disciples thought that was it and he wasn't the messiah, but when he appeared risen from the dead then they believed again.
When I take all of Jesus miracles, his over 300 prophesy fulfillments and his risen from the dead, and his promise to return, then it isn’t farfetched for me to believe that he is the Messiah. Then I add my born again experience and I am convinced.
When I take all of Jesus miracles, his over 300 prophesy fulfillments and his risen from the dead, and his promise to return, then it isn’t farfetched for me to believe that he is the Messiah. Then I add my born again experience and I am convinced.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
In my limited contact with Jewish teachers I have been told that Jesus did not issue in the "Messianic Age" as was prophesied in the OT. The Jews were looking for a King to lead them against their oppressors. Of course this wasn't the case. I believe the early followers of Yeshua had found a spiritual Messiah as opposed to a physical hero. This inward leader has been adulterated and adjusted over the last 2000 years to meet the different agendas of many people. Maybe it's time for a new prophesy.
The new prophecy (which is old) is everyone is their own messiah. Sages, prophets, parents, counselors and teachers for thousands of years have all plainly said, Stop doing what gets you into trouble. Haven't we all been taught that?
None of them could wave a magic wand to do it. The responsibility is and always has been to each person.
So, next time you are speeding, SLOW DOWN or you gets a ticket.
waitasec
Veteran Member
under what conditions?