Why do Christians oppose abortion?

[Jeff_gummy_bears]

This question is directed mainly at Christians that believe in an afterlife (heaven/hell).

Where do babies go when they die? (born or unborn)

If you think, “Obviously heaven, God would never send an unborn child to hell for all eternity!”, then great, all babies go to heaven. Now, if that's true, I don't understand the opposition to abortion. Think about it. The bible implies that a great many adults are going to hell. If your child grows up in this world, there's a good chance they'll be one of them. If you could guarantee your child's place in heaven for eternity by ending their stay on earth prematurely, wouldn't that be worth it? Their life on earth should be completely meaningless when compared to all eternity, and why risk them going to hell? If this is true, you'd think that if Christians were going to take a position on abortion, it'd be pro-death.

If on the other hand you think, “Everyone has sinned and is destined for hell unless they take Christ into their heart!”, then ok, all babies go to hell. Now, if that's true, what does that say about God? This is important. Because if you believe that the miscarriages, and SIDS babies, and every accident resulting in a child's death means you might go to heaven and never see your children again, doesn't "heaven" look more like your own personal hell, where you are never reunited with your kids, and have to spend eternity living with their abuser?

As far as the new testament goes to spread a message of "God loves you". the concept that this "loving" God will send many of you including your babies to a fiery Hell for all eternity, can't be reconciled.

In fact, if Hell is real, then I really don't think we can view the God as "loving" at all, but instead as the "great torturer".

Since the Bible claims that God is both "loving" and will send you to hell, I feel we must conclude that both can't be true, which implies the entire book is not created by God. At which point, I think it's safe to say we have no true information on an afterlife, and should not be using this book as a basis for our decisions.

Thoughts?

 

[robocop (actually)]

This question is directed mainly at Christians that believe in an afterlife (heaven/hell).

Where do babies go when they die? (born or unborn)

If you think, “Obviously heaven, God would never send an unborn child to hell for all eternity!”, then great, all babies go to heaven. Now, if that's true, I don't understand the opposition to abortion. Think about it. The bible implies that a great many adults are going to hell. If your child grows up in this world, there's a good chance they'll be one of them. If you could guarantee your child's place in heaven for eternity by ending their stay on earth prematurely, wouldn't that be worth it? Their life on earth should be completely meaningless when compared to all eternity, and why risk them going to hell? If this is true, you'd think that if Christians were going to take a position on abortion, it'd be pro-death.

If on the other hand you think, “Everyone has sinned and is destined for hell unless they take Christ into their heart!”, then ok, all babies go to hell. Now, if that's true, what does that say about God? This is important. Because if you believe that the miscarriages, and SIDS babies, and every accident resulting in a child's death means you might go to heaven and never see your children again, doesn't "heaven" look more like your own personal hell, where you are never reunited with your kids, and have to spend eternity living with their abuser?

As far as the new testament goes to spread a message of "God loves you". the concept that this "loving" God will send many of you including your babies to a fiery Hell for all eternity, can't be reconciled.

In fact, if Hell is real, then I really don't think we can view the God as "loving" at all, but instead as the "great torturer".

Since the Bible claims that God is both "loving" and will send you to hell, I feel we must conclude that both can't be true, which implies the entire book is not created by God. At which point, I think it's safe to say we have no true information on an afterlife, and should not be using this book as a basis for our decisions.

Thoughts?

Unborn babies may go straight to heaven, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have wanted a trial on earth.

 

[Jimmy]

Heaven and hell is metaphorical to good times and bad on earth. Another metaphor to heaven is ever lasting life. Death is a beginning.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This question is directed mainly at Christians that believe in an afterlife (heaven/hell).

Where do babies go when they die? (born or unborn)

If you think, “Obviously heaven, God would never send an unborn child to hell for all eternity!”, then great, all babies go to heaven. Now, if that's true, I don't understand the opposition to abortion. Think about it. The bible implies that a great many adults are going to hell. If your child grows up in this world, there's a good chance they'll be one of them. If you could guarantee your child's place in heaven for eternity by ending their stay on earth prematurely, wouldn't that be worth it? Their life on earth should be completely meaningless when compared to all eternity, and why risk them going to hell? If this is true, you'd think that if Christians were going to take a position on abortion, it'd be pro-death.

If on the other hand you think, “Everyone has sinned and is destined for hell unless they take Christ into their heart!”, then ok, all babies go to hell. Now, if that's true, what does that say about God? This is important. Because if you believe that the miscarriages, and SIDS babies, and every accident resulting in a child's death means you might go to heaven and never see your children again, doesn't "heaven" look more like your own personal hell, where you are never reunited with your kids, and have to spend eternity living with their abuser?

As far as the new testament goes to spread a message of "God loves you". the concept that this "loving" God will send many of you including your babies to a fiery Hell for all eternity, can't be reconciled.

In fact, if Hell is real, then I really don't think we can view the God as "loving" at all, but instead as the "great torturer".

Since the Bible claims that God is both "loving" and will send you to hell, I feel we must conclude that both can't be true, which implies the entire book is not created by God. At which point, I think it's safe to say we have no true information on an afterlife, and should not be using this book as a basis for our decisions.

Thoughts?

In general, I haven't found that Christians - even the ones that are anti-choice - are that opposed to abortion. They only seem to be interested in preventing abortions if there's an element of harm or shame directed at the pregnant person.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Heaven and hell is metaphorical to good times and bad on earth. Another metaphor to heaven is ever lasting life. Death is a beginning.

You're a closet Baha'i underneath all those metaphors, aren't you.

 

[Left Coast]

***THREAD MOVED TO GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES***

 

[QuestioningMind]

This question is directed mainly at Christians that believe in an afterlife (heaven/hell).

Where do babies go when they die? (born or unborn)

If you think, “Obviously heaven, God would never send an unborn child to hell for all eternity!”, then great, all babies go to heaven. Now, if that's true, I don't understand the opposition to abortion. Think about it. The bible implies that a great many adults are going to hell. If your child grows up in this world, there's a good chance they'll be one of them. If you could guarantee your child's place in heaven for eternity by ending their stay on earth prematurely, wouldn't that be worth it? Their life on earth should be completely meaningless when compared to all eternity, and why risk them going to hell? If this is true, you'd think that if Christians were going to take a position on abortion, it'd be pro-death.

If on the other hand you think, “Everyone has sinned and is destined for hell unless they take Christ into their heart!”, then ok, all babies go to hell. Now, if that's true, what does that say about God? This is important. Because if you believe that the miscarriages, and SIDS babies, and every accident resulting in a child's death means you might go to heaven and never see your children again, doesn't "heaven" look more like your own personal hell, where you are never reunited with your kids, and have to spend eternity living with their abuser?

As far as the new testament goes to spread a message of "God loves you". the concept that this "loving" God will send many of you including your babies to a fiery Hell for all eternity, can't be reconciled.

In fact, if Hell is real, then I really don't think we can view the God as "loving" at all, but instead as the "great torturer".

Since the Bible claims that God is both "loving" and will send you to hell, I feel we must conclude that both can't be true, which implies the entire book is not created by God. At which point, I think it's safe to say we have no true information on an afterlife, and should not be using this book as a basis for our decisions.

Thoughts?

Good question, especially since there's nothing in the bible that suggests that god considers abortion to be murder. In fact there's a passage in the bible in which is says that if a man injures a pregnant woman and causes her to miscarriage that IF the husband of the pregnant woman WANTS to, he can appeal to the elders to have the man fined for his loss. But if he doesn't care then the guy who caused the miscarriage gets off scot-free.

Not sure why Christians try and pretend that abortion is such a terrible sin in god's eyes, when clearly god simply sees it as a possible inconvenience to the man whose wife lost the fetus.

 

[Jimmy]

You're a closet Baha'i underneath all those metaphors, aren't you.

You're a closet Baha'i underneath all those metaphors, aren't you.

Haha, I appreciate all religions but none are 100% truth.

 

[Nakosis]

This question is directed mainly at Christians that believe in an afterlife (heaven/hell).

Where do babies go when they die? (born or unborn)

If you think, “Obviously heaven, God would never send an unborn child to hell for all eternity!”, then great, all babies go to heaven. Now, if that's true, I don't understand the opposition to abortion. Think about it. The bible implies that a great many adults are going to hell. If your child grows up in this world, there's a good chance they'll be one of them. If you could guarantee your child's place in heaven for eternity by ending their stay on earth prematurely, wouldn't that be worth it? Their life on earth should be completely meaningless when compared to all eternity, and why risk them going to hell? If this is true, you'd think that if Christians were going to take a position on abortion, it'd be pro-death.

If on the other hand you think, “Everyone has sinned and is destined for hell unless they take Christ into their heart!”, then ok, all babies go to hell. Now, if that's true, what does that say about God? This is important. Because if you believe that the miscarriages, and SIDS babies, and every accident resulting in a child's death means you might go to heaven and never see your children again, doesn't "heaven" look more like your own personal hell, where you are never reunited with your kids, and have to spend eternity living with their abuser?

As far as the new testament goes to spread a message of "God loves you". the concept that this "loving" God will send many of you including your babies to a fiery Hell for all eternity, can't be reconciled.

In fact, if Hell is real, then I really don't think we can view the God as "loving" at all, but instead as the "great torturer".

Since the Bible claims that God is both "loving" and will send you to hell, I feel we must conclude that both can't be true, which implies the entire book is not created by God. At which point, I think it's safe to say we have no true information on an afterlife, and should not be using this book as a basis for our decisions.

Thoughts?

Since the Bible says nothing about abortion, it's not a biblical position. It seems to be a papal issue. Pope Frances has declared it to be a human rights issue. The right to life must be protected especially for the unborn.

So it's not about sending them early to heaven it's about not taken away their right to live. I understand many don't see the unborn child as having any right. The Pope says they do and Christians should protect their rights.

 

[The Anointed]

Good question, especially since there's nothing in the bible that suggests that god considers abortion to be murder. In fact there's a passage in the bible in which is says that if a man injures a pregnant woman and causes her to miscarriage that IF the husband of the pregnant woman WANTS to, he can appeal to the elders to have the man fined for his loss. But if he doesn't care then the guy who caused the miscarriage gets off scot-free.

Not sure why Christians try and pretend that abortion is such a terrible sin in god's eyes, when clearly god simply sees it as a possible inconvenience to the man whose wife lost the fetus.

Because they are more interested in the meat rather than the mind that develops after the new born human has taken it's first breath.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, it is the mind=spirit that develops within the growing body, which is a potential child of God.

 

[Deeje]

This question is directed mainly at Christians that believe in an afterlife (heaven/hell).

Where do babies go when they die? (born or unborn)

If you think, “Obviously heaven, God would never send an unborn child to hell for all eternity!”, then great, all babies go to heaven. Now, if that's true, I don't understand the opposition to abortion. Think about it. The bible implies that a great many adults are going to hell. If your child grows up in this world, there's a good chance they'll be one of them. If you could guarantee your child's place in heaven for eternity by ending their stay on earth prematurely, wouldn't that be worth it? Their life on earth should be completely meaningless when compared to all eternity, and why risk them going to hell? If this is true, you'd think that if Christians were going to take a position on abortion, it'd be pro-death.

If on the other hand you think, “Everyone has sinned and is destined for hell unless they take Christ into their heart!”, then ok, all babies go to hell. Now, if that's true, what does that say about God? This is important. Because if you believe that the miscarriages, and SIDS babies, and every accident resulting in a child's death means you might go to heaven and never see your children again, doesn't "heaven" look more like your own personal hell, where you are never reunited with your kids, and have to spend eternity living with their abuser?

As far as the new testament goes to spread a message of "God loves you". the concept that this "loving" God will send many of you including your babies to a fiery Hell for all eternity, can't be reconciled.

In fact, if Hell is real, then I really don't think we can view the God as "loving" at all, but instead as the "great torturer".

Since the Bible claims that God is both "loving" and will send you to hell, I feel we must conclude that both can't be true, which implies the entire book is not created by God. At which point, I think it's safe to say we have no true information on an afterlife, and should not be using this book as a basis for our decisions.

Thoughts?

As a Christian who has no belief in any “heaven or hell” scenario, this question for me is not about where unborn babies go, but more about the point of where “life” begins? When you take a life, it doesn’t go anywhere. The Bible indicates that any return to life (resurrection) is entirely in God’s hands.

All of us began our life at conception. To interrupt what takes place after that, when everything that this embryo will become is already laid down in its DNA, is to destroy life and to cancel out all the potential that this life might have led to.

The Bible indicates that when we die, we go to our graves to “sleep” (i.e. to die is to end life.) Death is never spoken of as a gateway to another life. IOW, Life and death are opposites.

So termination of a life for convenience, to me, is murder. All life is precious and because there is no real excuse these days for “unwanted pregnancy”, seeing abortion as a means of lazy birth control is unconscionable for anyone who purports to worship God and to uphold his laws.

I believe that all those who break God’s laws on the sanctity of life will have to account to him at some point......whether they believe in him or not.

Not believing, doesn’t make God go away....

 

[sun rise]

Speaking for some Christians I've read, it's murder to kill a one day old baby. One day before birth the humanity of the unborn is the same as a one day old baby since both have a soul.

And by extension that is carried backward through fetal development.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Since the Bible says nothing about abortion, it's not a biblical position. It seems to be a papal issue. Pope Frances has declared it to be a human rights issue. The right to life must be protected especially for the unborn.

So it's not about sending them early to heaven it's about not taken away their right to live. I understand many don't see the unborn child as having any right. The Pope says they do and Christians should protect their rights.

Commanding the Hebrew army to rip the unborn from the womb does seem rather abortion-like to me, and actually worse than abortion because it was not only against the mothers will, both would have been killed.

 

[Nakosis]

Commanding the Hebrew army to rip the unborn from the womb does seem rather abortion-like to me, and actually worse than abortion because it was not only against the mothers will, both would have been killed.

I suspect it is probably safe to say the Pope is not Hebrew.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I suspect it is probably safe to say the Pope is not Hebrew.

True. But its hard to say the Bible says nothing about abortion. It actually does. Such as the ritual of bitter waters. The intention is abortion. Not as hideously violent, but still hideously heinous.

 

[74x12]

This question is directed mainly at Christians that believe in an afterlife (heaven/hell).

Where do babies go when they die? (born or unborn)

If you think, “Obviously heaven, God would never send an unborn child to hell for all eternity!”, then great, all babies go to heaven. Now, if that's true, I don't understand the opposition to abortion. Think about it. The bible implies that a great many adults are going to hell. If your child grows up in this world, there's a good chance they'll be one of them. If you could guarantee your child's place in heaven for eternity by ending their stay on earth prematurely, wouldn't that be worth it? Their life on earth should be completely meaningless when compared to all eternity, and why risk them going to hell? If this is true, you'd think that if Christians were going to take a position on abortion, it'd be pro-death.

If on the other hand you think, “Everyone has sinned and is destined for hell unless they take Christ into their heart!”, then ok, all babies go to hell. Now, if that's true, what does that say about God? This is important. Because if you believe that the miscarriages, and SIDS babies, and every accident resulting in a child's death means you might go to heaven and never see your children again, doesn't "heaven" look more like your own personal hell, where you are never reunited with your kids, and have to spend eternity living with their abuser?

As far as the new testament goes to spread a message of "God loves you". the concept that this "loving" God will send many of you including your babies to a fiery Hell for all eternity, can't be reconciled.

In fact, if Hell is real, then I really don't think we can view the God as "loving" at all, but instead as the "great torturer".

Since the Bible claims that God is both "loving" and will send you to hell, I feel we must conclude that both can't be true, which implies the entire book is not created by God. At which point, I think it's safe to say we have no true information on an afterlife, and should not be using this book as a basis for our decisions.

Thoughts?

It's opposed by me because it's wrong. I believe there is right and wrong. I personally believe aborted babies are probably better off; but that doesn't make it right to have an abortion. As the scripture says:

“Let’s do evil, that good may come?” Those who say so are justly condemned. (Romans 3:8)​

I don't believe aborted babies go to hell. God is not unjust. But to abort your baby is to stain your hands with innocent blood. Does that mean it is equivalent of murder in God's eyes? I don't know the answer. But it's wrong either way.

As for remembering things in the life to come. You won't remember things that cause you emotional pain. Which means you won't really remember much of your present life because your present life always has some emotional pain attached to pretty much everything. But that is life for you. You would remember that you lived on earth and you may remember a few basic facts of your life. Will you know loved ones there? Certainly, but everyone will be like family.

To say more on why it is wrong to "do evil that good may come".

It's because whatever seed you sow you'll reap the same. So, you sow an evil seed then the plant will grow to be evil. You can't get a good fruit off a plant that is evil from it's roots up. That's how you know the ends don't justify the means. The means must be worthy of the ends or it will be rejected by God.

Let's take the people that killed Jesus for example. Even though we Christians know now that His death was for our benefit; yet that doesn't mean those people benefited themselves. Just because they killed Jesus doesn't mean they reaped the good benefits of His death and resurrection. No, unless they repent they were condemned by His death because they were murderers.

 

[The Anointed]

As a Christian who has no belief in any “heaven or hell” scenario, this question for me is not about where unborn babies go, but more about the point of where “life” begins? When you take a life, it doesn’t go anywhere. The Bible indicates that any return to life (resurrection) is entirely in God’s hands.

All of us began our life at conception. To interrupt what takes place after that, when everything that this embryo will become is already laid down in its DNA, is to destroy life and to cancel out all the potential that this life might have led to.

The Bible indicates that when we die, we go to our graves to “sleep” (i.e. to die is to end life.) Death is never spoken of as a gateway to another life. IOW, Life and death are opposites.

So termination of a life for convenience, to me, is murder. All life is precious and because there is no real excuse these days for “unwanted pregnancy”, seeing abortion as a means of lazy birth control is unconscionable for anyone who purports to worship God and to uphold his laws.

I believe that all those who break God’s laws on the sanctity of life will have to account to him at some point......whether they believe in him or not.

Not believing, doesn’t make God go away....

To die the 'FIRST DEATH' which is that of the body in which the mind=spirit that is 'YOU' develops, is not the end of your life. To die the second death, which is the division of the spirit that is 'YOU' from the soul of God, is the end of You.

 

[Deeje]

To die the 'FIRST DEATH' which is that of the body in which the mind=spirit that is 'YOU' develops, is not the end of your life. To die the second death, which is the division of the spirit that is 'YOU' from the soul of God, is the end of You.

I guess that depends on what you believe “soul” and “spirit” to be.

The “soul” is the living breathing creature....both humans and animals are called “souls” in the Bible. All living things are animated by the same spirit....it is passed on at birth when a creature takes its first breath.....only then, like Adam does it “become” a soul.

The ‘first death’ is the one we inherited from Adam. (Romans 5:12)
We all die, just like the animals when that was not supposed to happen. God did not create humans to die. The only mention of death in the garden was as a penalty for disobedience......so if the humans had not disobeyed God, then would never have died. But this death is not permanent. God promises a resurrection. (John 5:28-29)

The “second death” is the one from which God will not resurrect anyone....it is the opposite of everlasting life....everlasting death.

There is no immortal soul to go anywhere....we lose our life because of what Adam did...Jesus came to save us from that death and secure a resurrection for us.....but those in “Gehenna” (the second death) will never see life again.....it’s really not more complicated than that.

 

[Riders]

There are liberal Christians who are pro choice not pro life and some who have protested for pro choice It depends on what political stand they take, conservative Christians tend to be pro life. Liberal Christians are not. I am surprised the OP casts all Christians under the same political party attitudes.

 

[The Anointed]

I guess that depends on what you believe “soul” and “spirit” to be.

The “soul” is the living breathing creature....both humans and animals are called “souls” in the Bible. All living things are animated by the same spirit....it is passed on at birth when a creature takes its first breath.....only then, like Adam does it “become” a soul.

The ‘first death’ is the one we inherited from Adam. (Romans 5:12)
We all die, just like the animals when that was not supposed to happen. God did not create humans to die. The only mention of death in the garden was as a penalty for disobedience......so if the humans had not disobeyed God, then would never have died. But this death is not permanent. God promises a resurrection. (John 5:28-29)

The “second death” is the one from which God will not resurrect anyone....it is the opposite of everlasting life....everlasting death.

There is no immortal soul to go anywhere....we lose our life because of what Adam did...Jesus came to save us from that death and secure a resurrection for us.....but those in “Gehenna” (the second death) will never see life again.....it’s really not more complicated than that.

God breathed the breath of life (The animating life force) into Adam and he became a living soul, at death that animating life force returns to God who gave it.

Jesus said in one place that we must love God with all our heart=body with all our soul and with all our mind: then in another place he said, we must love God with all our body, soul and spirit, the spirit and the mind are one and the same.

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is created from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, and it is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE, that all information or SPIRIT, is gathered.

“YOU,” as a human being, are Body, Soul and Spirit, but “YOU” the invisible mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and pre-human has been gathered in its evolution to become ‘WHO YOU ARE’, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh to the inner most sanctuary of its temporary earthly tabernacle or tent, which is your physical body, as it awaits the creation of its glorious temple of incorruptible Light. [THE SON OF MAN]

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and “YOU” who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality or “CONTROLLING GODHEAD” to that body, which godhead should be an obedient servant to “WHO YOU ARE.”

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind The veil,
I lifted up my hands to find A lamp amid the Darkness;
and I heard, As from Without----
“The Me within Thee is blind.”----- By Omar Khayyam.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU, the mind or spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, [The collective consciousness of all that exists] from which it will be resurrected, either in this, or in the next cycle of universal activity. Unless of course, the information=spirit that is “YOU” is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul. Hebrews 4: 12.---------“For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit.”

When Jesus gave up his spirit on the cross the graves of the Saints were opened and three days later they came out of their graves and entered the holy city and showed themselves to many as the risen body of Christ, who was 'The first fruits,' (Plural) to be harvested from the body of mankind.

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

Jesus, in who were the spirits of the righteous who had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham, was resurrected on the first day after the weekly Sabbath that followed the Passover, which is the festival of “First Fruits,” HE was the first fruits (Plural) to be harvested from the body of mankind.

Those who lead good lives find peace and rest in death says Isaiah, and those who lead wicked lives find peace and rest in death says Deeje. Samuel's rest was disturbed by King Saul says the Holy Scriptures. It was not Samuel who spoke to Saul says Deeje, it was some demon of her imagination, or the teachings of the her blind guides who she follows.