Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I don't think that was the case with the London 7/7 bombers actually.
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why do Muslims Must offer apologizes for individual actions?
- Thread starter truth seeker2012
- Start date
I don't think that was the case with the London 7/7 bombers actually.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Yes, that was reported here.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
It's isn't about apologising and I don't think anyone has suggested that.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
They shouldn't. But suspicions will linger if all Muslims don't roundly condemn the terrorism.
Woodrow LI
IB Ambassador
I found profiles on the 4. Only one appears to have had any religious interests. But seems to have had a bit of a hectic life. the 4 of them seem to have had past incidents that brought them to the attention of the police.
Only one seems to have actually been a practicing Muslim, but he was also young and seems to have been very easy to manipulate
You can read their brief biographies HERE http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/london_blasts/investigation/html/bombers.stm
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I don't believe everything I see on the BBC, but I don't believe everything I read on the internet either.
Shad
Veteran Member
I am just staying true to the OP. Condemning an act is not the same as apologizing for one
anyway, how about my condemnation , feels good ?
Woodrow LI
IB Ambassador
How much condemnation do you expect us to do. virtually every Muslims condemn the terrorist especially those who do so in the name of Islam
I have posted many links of Muslims condemning Muslim terrorists
Here are a few more recent ones
Not in our name - Muslims respond in revulsion to Charlie Hebdo massacre » Spectator Blogs
Muslims Worldwide Condemn France Attack
This next link points out extremist groups are praising the attacks, but it also points out virtually all muslims are condemning it
Charlie Hebdo killings condemned by Arab states – but hailed online by extremists | World news | The Guardian
gsa
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I don’t care if Muslims condemn these acts of violence or not; I know that the vast majority of Muslims are opposed to it, at least in the U.S. I do not need to hear it from every Muslim on my social media feed to know that they do indeed abhor the murder of innocent people. Only the most irrationally xenophobic person would assume the contrary.
That said, I would like to see more moderating elements within Islam. Or I should say, reforming and liberalizing elements. I don’t think it is terribly controversial to observe that there are many more (theologically and socially) liberal Jews and Christians than Muslims. I think that it is happening organically in the US, but if the surveys in some European states are reliable, the situation there is quite dire. I don’t think that the religion itself is to blame (although I think that the Abrahamic religions are inclined towards certain things), but I do think that some of the UK survey results I’ve read (Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll | UK news | The Guardian) show that British Muslims are radically conservative, at least when it comes to sexuality and gender and, presumably, freedom of speech that encompasses blasphemy.
That said, I would like to see more moderating elements within Islam. Or I should say, reforming and liberalizing elements. I don’t think it is terribly controversial to observe that there are many more (theologically and socially) liberal Jews and Christians than Muslims. I think that it is happening organically in the US, but if the surveys in some European states are reliable, the situation there is quite dire. I don’t think that the religion itself is to blame (although I think that the Abrahamic religions are inclined towards certain things), but I do think that some of the UK survey results I’ve read (Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll | UK news | The Guardian) show that British Muslims are radically conservative, at least when it comes to sexuality and gender and, presumably, freedom of speech that encompasses blasphemy.
Woodrow LI
IB Ambassador
Typically there is no centralized teaching of Islam. for most Muslims their only teacher will be their mother. Sometimes what one sees is family culture
gsa
Well-Known Member
These particular teachings appear to transcend geographical and cultural limitations, but not religious ones.
Woodrow LI
IB Ambassador
Unless you take into consideration there is no centralized teaching.
No Imam, Scholar, Teacher etc is supposed to present their interpretation of scripture as being the "official" one. they are obligated to explain it is their own opinion and if they are wrong they alone are responsible. We are to question all things and ask for verification of whatever is presented as truth.
There is no "Official" teaching or interpretation of Scripture. A mulsim learns the Scripture verbatim and then learns are are different Tafsir and they should study all but believe only that which they them self have found verification for.
None of us can say something is the true interpretation we can state what we believe is and give our reasons for believing so.
Usually until we find reason to believe different we will accept what the majority of the Ulema says, but we are still obligated to do our best to find proof of all we accept.
gsa
Well-Known Member
This doesn't make (Sunni) Islam any different from Protestant Christianity, which has a history of similar theological and social conservatism. And let's be realistic: There are clear limits to theological innovation in Islam.
Woodrow LI
IB Ambassador
There are limits as there are the 5 pillars of faith we all must follow to the best of our ability and there are the 6 fundemental beliefs
Listed in order of importance they are:
5 pillars of Islam
1) The Testimony of Faith:
The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah.” This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. This testimony of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which should be said with conviction in order to convert to Islam. The testimony of faith is the most important pillar of Islam.
2) Prayer:
Muslims perform five prayers a day. Each prayer does not take more than a few minutes to perform. Prayer in Islam is a direct link between the worshipper and God. There are no intermediaries between God and the worshipper.
NOTE those are the Formal obligatory prayers called Salat and are very similar to a religious ceremony. We also have our personal prayers called Du'a which we say in words of our choice, whenever and where ever we desire. they are our personal communication with Allaah(swt)
3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy):
All things belong to God, and wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The original meaning of the word zakat is both ‘purification’ and ‘growth.’ Giving zakat means ‘giving a specified percentage on certain properties to certain classes of needy people.’ A person may also give as much as he or she pleases as voluntary alms or charity.
4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:
Every year in the month of Ramadan,4 all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.
Although the fast is beneficial to health, it is regarded principally as a method of spiritual self-purification. By cutting oneself off from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person gains true sympathy with those who go hungry, as well as growth in his or her spiritual life.
5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:
The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah is an obligation once in a lifetime for those who are physically and financially able to perform it.
Fundamental Beliefs
Muslims have six main beliefs.
Belief in Allah as the one and only God
Belief in angels
Belief in the holy books
Belief in the Prophets...
Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the final prophet.
Belief in the Day of Judgement...
Belief that Allah is all Knowing...
The absolute minimum to be considered a Muslim is to perform the first pillar at least once in your life with knowledge and sincerity. Erverything else is secondary and essentially fine-tuniing.
.
Shad
Veteran Member
Condemning something is different than apologizing. Apologizing signifies a level a responsibility. You misread my post and didn't read my previous post.
Woodrow LI
IB Ambassador
I misunderstood.
Personally I do not see why I should apologize for anything I did not do nor approve of being done. I have contact with only one Muslim on a regular basis, that is my wife, and i really do not know of any time she has ever even threatened violence, except for when I forget to take out the garbage.
I
If you do not approve of what other Muslims do, how much meaning there is in saying that you are both Muslims?
I'm not implying that there must be some specific level. I truly want to know.
I'm not implying that there must be some specific level. I truly want to know.
Chev Chelios
Member
Yes - Moslems absolutely do have a duty to come out en masse and condemn these actions and show the world that this is not Islam. Let's be very clear here - when a cartoon is drawn of Muhammad or a video is made which is seen by Moslems as slander against their faith we consistently see Moslems rally to defend it - it seems to be an absolute duty of the Moslem to come out and protect Islam.
So I find it very interesting that when we see slaughter specifically being carried out in the name of Islam (and which does have much theological backing I must say) we suddenly question why we would expect Moslems to come out and react? WTF? People say absolutely nothing when Moslems coalesce when they deem matters pertain to Islam in a negative way and yet when savagery is carried out in the name of Islam then suddenly Moslems are not expected to come out and defend their faith? Surely the death of innocent people in honour of your religion is far more of an anathema and slanderous than a cartoon?? Surely?? Something is very wrong with this picture and I believe it shows something very important about how Moslems view these events and not least of all how Moslems constantly wish to have it both ways. Well they can't - just like the rest of us.
The fact is, we are seeing a sustained global campaign involving and or supported by millions of Moslems and so unless 'moderate' Moslems are willing to do something about these atrocities carried out in the name of their faith then a BIG question mark will forever hang over the ability of Islam to function in an advanced pleuralistic society. It is not my duty to show the world what Moslems are about - that responsibility falls to the Moslems themselves.
So I find it very interesting that when we see slaughter specifically being carried out in the name of Islam (and which does have much theological backing I must say) we suddenly question why we would expect Moslems to come out and react? WTF? People say absolutely nothing when Moslems coalesce when they deem matters pertain to Islam in a negative way and yet when savagery is carried out in the name of Islam then suddenly Moslems are not expected to come out and defend their faith? Surely the death of innocent people in honour of your religion is far more of an anathema and slanderous than a cartoon?? Surely?? Something is very wrong with this picture and I believe it shows something very important about how Moslems view these events and not least of all how Moslems constantly wish to have it both ways. Well they can't - just like the rest of us.
The fact is, we are seeing a sustained global campaign involving and or supported by millions of Moslems and so unless 'moderate' Moslems are willing to do something about these atrocities carried out in the name of their faith then a BIG question mark will forever hang over the ability of Islam to function in an advanced pleuralistic society. It is not my duty to show the world what Moslems are about - that responsibility falls to the Moslems themselves.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
I didn't ask for condemnation or apology, I was just wondering why the OP had to ask the question. For my part I can apologize for things my ancestors and peoples have done. It's nothing to make a fuzz about.