Why do so many religious people care what others believe?

[Jumi]

You literally can't force belief (actual faith) on anyone. You can force some to claim they believe, to act as if they believe but you can't force them to actually believe.

I think religious camps for kids can actually work for that, having been in an isolated religious camp for two weeks without means of contacting the outside, most started to believe even those that were forced to go there by their parents. Of course that didn't last very long afterwards, but it tells of potential for forcing faith and looking at how it has worked, it's been a success for centuries.

No evangelist is forcing you to turn him on your TV, let them into your house, or force you to go to their event.

No evangelist may force you to hear what he has to say, but for some religious participation is mandated by others. For kids, it can be the parents or like in my case, the state church did.

 

[1robin]

So I guess you'll be thankful when an Islam apologist tells you that if you don't convert, you're in danger?

What? Are you referring to the caliphate's convert or die campaign across the Mediterranean world? I am not sure what your talking about.

 

[1robin]

I think religious camps for kids can actually work for that, having been in an isolated religious camp for two weeks without means of contacting the outside, most started to believe even those that were forced to go there by their parents. Of course that didn't last very long afterwards, but it tells of potential for forcing faith and looking at how it has worked, it's been a success for centuries.

I am not sure what it is your trying to prove but even if you force a kid to go to a church camp you still can't force them to actually believe. I know so because I had to go to a couple but by the time I was 17 I was a raging anti-theist.

Your right about one thing. What a child learns at those camps is usually superficial even if it is sincere, but I am talking about saving faith (faith that actually causes supernatural things to occur).

No evangelist may force you to hear what he has to say, but for some religious participation is mandated by others. For kids, it can be the parents or like in my case, the state church did.

My original point remains in tact. No one can force another to actually believe. Coerce yes, force no.

 

[ChristineM]

^ case in point.

Because you hold your beliefs to be undeniable fact, anyone with differing beliefs is then by definition 'dishonest' and/or 'intellectually inferior'. And this is an inevitable source of anger, frustration, disdain, contempt

I don't consider you dishonest, you sound like a perfectly intelligent, honest, well meaning person to me, entirely capable of critical thought... who looks at the same evidence I do, and comes to a different conclusion.

I can only grant you this courtesy by acknowledging my own beliefs as just that, they are not beyond questioning, I am not in any way offended by you not sharing them.

The point is truth and its definition, not faith.

But thanks for the magnanimous gesture

 

[Profound Realization]

Why then have hope if you cannot know? Why not just admit you don't know and move on?

We also tend to ask "how can we improve things?" Hope is nothing more than a dream. A "security blanket," of sorts. And hope for a good afterlife has often directly stagnated and balked progress towards giving relief to the suffering masses in this life.

You almost sound offended by people that have hope, dreams, and comfort. You almost sound as if you hoped others wouldn't hope, have dreams, and have a desire for people to be insecure.

Why is it your concern if others have hope, are they not free to do so?

 

[Profound Realization]

And yet you made your comment about Jesus commanding you to share the gospel, apparently in direct reply to the OP. Your statement was NOT backing the OP, or agreeing with it in any way. It wasn't, exactly, in opposition either... however, that's simply your choice of words allowing you to back-pedal out of the situation quickly if anyone called you on it... which you did immediately when confronted.

You can deny it, and you can even make yourself believe that you didn't do what I am claiming. But I know how the situation looked to me. Perception is reality, and my reality now includes this little tidbit. And before you say it, I know you "don't care", which is completely fine. I will continue to paint my picture of you, however much, or little you care about the picture. That's the way the world works for the both of us.

Someone simply sharing someone's beliefs with another isn't infringing or harming anyone. You can either listen or not listen. But I understand what you're saying, as you've perhaps gotten offended by someone just typing a few words. (It harmed you.) But you weren't forced to respond, becoming offended would be on you and not the sharer.

 

[Profound Realization]

I think you forgot someones, the great number of atheists going after the religious. Even here, many who do not believe in God keep on asking religious questions - many for the sake of putting down any answer that has anything to do with God.

Personally, you can believe anything you want. If I should happen to believe that others go to hell or heaven, which I don't, how does this hurt you if you don't believe this, why should it bother you. It is simply that person's beliefs. Some people believe that we originated from mineral rock soup, let them; though to me it makes no sense. Some believe the earth flat, let them. Other atheists, I have heard say that the earth has four corners and claim that believers believe this. Personally, I don't think the earth flat or a square, or rectangle - let them make outrageous claims. It only demonstrates their level of intelligence.

As long as people don't point a gun at me, here on the Internet, you can just choose not to respond.

Perhaps anyone believing in "God(s)" can also choose not to respond to "atheists" doing such things. It's an invitation to mockery. No "atheist" forces anyone to subject themselves to mockery or to become personally offended.

To others their claims may make sense, and to others... the opposite claim is deemed outrageous, and unintelligent.

Is it possible for 2 to engage in a kind conversation without judgements of being unintelligent or less superior of intelligence?

 

[Jumi]

I am not sure what it is your trying to prove but even if you force a kid to go to a church camp you still can't force them to actually believe. I know so because I had to go to a couple but by the time I was 17 I was a raging anti-theist.

You were a bit older and at an age where humans usually are more rebellious, so naturally you would have more defenses set up. I think the system actually worked, why would it have been in use for centuries, if it didn't? There was also a carrot in olden days, the license to legally marry not given to non-confirmed Christians.

Your right about one thing. What a child learns at those camps is usually superficial even if it is sincere, but I am talking about saving faith (faith that actually causes supernatural things to occur).

If it lasted for a longer time or was timed earlier in developmental stage, I'm sure many more would have been past superficial. Still many formed a relationship to their religion there that stuck.

My original point remains in tact. No one can force another to actually believe. Coerce yes, force no.

Past a certain age, forcing belief isn't easy anyway...

 

[Grandliseur]

Is it possible for 2 to engage in a kind conversation without judgements of being unintelligent or less superior of intelligence?

Obviously, that is possible. But, only if both sides choose to stay within certain bounds of communication. Neither those who say you are 'going to hell' or the mockers can accomplish that.

(Sorry for the typo; my eyes are not what they used to be.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You almost sound offended by people that have hope, dreams, and comfort. You almost sound as if you hoped others wouldn't hope, have dreams, and have a desire for people to be insecure.

Why is it your concern if others have hope, are they not free to do so?

It doesn't bother me, it just makes me curious as to why people have hope in such ways because I do not understand this. Without facts, without knowledge, we have uncertainty. I don't see any reasons to cover that up and not just embrace it. When you have what you have, there is no reason to pretend otherwise. Yes, it can help people get through, but that doesn't keep me front wondering why someone would think they need it to get through.

 

[LuisDantas]

Seriously, why?

One reason is because people's confort is reliant to a very large extent on their abilities to trust the others around them, and trust can only develop when there is a measure of mutual understanding. In many societies that understanding is not possible without at least a general awareness of a certain doctrine.

Another is the disconfort with disagreement. Many people have some degree of reliance on the notion that they happened to meet and adopt the one true belief.

 

[Deidre]

I was busy tonight but I'll come back tomorrow to reply. I appreciate your thoughts and for letting me vent lol

 

[Yasmie17]

I care more about what the individual Muslim has to say.

You can learn about islam more
And what do you wonder about islam?

 

[Jesster]

You can learn about islam more
And what do you wonder about islam?

Not much at the moment. If you want to start a thread about Islam, I will happily read it.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Someone simply sharing someone's beliefs with another isn't infringing or harming anyone. You can either listen or not listen. But I understand what you're saying, as you've perhaps gotten offended by someone just typing a few words. (It harmed you.) But you weren't forced to respond, becoming offended would be on you and not the sharer.

I'm not quite sure I was "offended," though I can understand how it may have appeared that way. Exasperation is more the term for what I was feeling in the moment I replied. The scenario was the exact sort of clandestine, passive-aggressive sort of absolute weakness I have seen time and time again from those "of the faith." I have seen it so many times, and it has basically become habit for me to call it out. It basically manifests in what appears (to me anyway) to be this seething need to get a contradicting/argumentative word in, but posit it in such a way that it is easy to pretend that it wasn't instigative/contradicting/argumentative.

It's like the believer sees this idea they don't agree with, and their mind just starts brimming with a desire that can only be quenched by some form of proselytizing, as they feel they are supposed to do... however, knowing how much that is frowned upon, they sort of mask it, or tone it down, make it cryptic, and then back out of the statement entirely when someone calls them on the content. Just say what you're itching to say, for goodness sake - regardless how unpopular the comment might make you. As you can tell that's what I do. Do you think I ever regret it if it aligns with my own principles? I'll give you a hint: guess "yes" and you will be entirely incorrect.

 

[Milton Platt]

Seriously, why? I honestly don't care what anyone believes, as long as their beliefs don't a) infringe on others' lives and b) don't hurt anyone.

This obsession so many people have to tell others ''you're wrong,'' or ''you're going to hell because you don't believe in...'' it's just mind numbing.

#stopthemadness

Because it is a part of their religious dogma to proselytize...it is a requirement of their belief system.

 

[Yasmie17]

Not much at the moment. If you want to start a thread about Islam, I will happily read it.

Great!! i have some link about Academician of islam i hope you get more benifit.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Are you sure that telling people about belief in eternal torments of Hell won't hurt them? And are you sure Hell really exists?

Are you sure Hell does not exist? How did you acquire such afterlife information? Are you unaware Jesus "went there, did that"?

How would you feel if not only does Hell exist but you are asking obstructionist questions of people trying to stop other people from going to Hell?

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you sure Hell does not exist? How did you acquire such afterlife information? Are you unaware Jesus "went there, did that"?

How would you feel if not only does Hell exist but you are asking obstructionist questions of people trying to stop other people from going to Hell?

That is a risk I will gladly take, given the circunstances.

And @Jumi 's question remains unanswered. Are you sure that hell exists? Sure enough to justify your claims, at least?

 

[Akivah]

That is incorrect. As Descartes the only thing we can know with certainty is that we think and therefor must exist. All other claims are a matter of probability. However you are right is saying that differing levels of knowledge mean that people have differing levels of probability as to the reliability of what they believe to be true. But there are no differing levels of certainty just as there are no differing levels of truth.

You just said in post #112 that the person has certainty in their religious beliefs. Is your point then that no one has any certainty except for you?

You literally can't force belief (actual faith) on anyone. You can force some to claim they believe, to act as if they believe but you can't force them to actually believe.

No evangelist is forcing you to turn him on your TV, let them into your house, or force you to go to their event.

Proselytizing is similar to second-hand smoke. I don't want to share their smoke if I'm close and I really hate it when they blow it in my face.