Why do so many religious people care what others believe?

[Jumi]

Is not same!! Islam not same with another religion because Islam is religion of God.

It is the same. Every religion claims they are true and every religion has followers that do good and followers that do bad.

 

[12jtartar]

If you want to tell people about your faith, awesome. But, please stop telling people how to read the same text you're reading...as if they don't know how to read it. Stop telling people what to believe. I share my views about Jesus, my thoughts about Buddhism, my ideas about other faiths...but it's up to that other person to decide FOR THEMSELVES if he/she wants to ''convert.'' Or to be a supporter of said faith.

You're not going to get a gold star from whoever it is you think is handing them out in the after life, because you drove everyone around you mad with trying to force your ideas onto others. Chastising them for not believing what you do. Get over your ego. Get over yourselves, you don't know with certainty where any of us are going, let alone yourself. So, if you wish to preach...preach out of love for your fellow man/woman. Preach out of kindness. Preach with conviction, but not to condemn.

End of my rant. Sorry, I had to say this.

Deidre,
Yours is a Cosmopolitan way of thinking, but have you thought about all there is to your idea??
Think a moment about this; Jesus Christ was, by far the greatest man to ever lived!! How did Jesus view your ideas? Jesus taught everywhere He went! For what reason, did he keep speaking to everyone about The Kingdom of God?? Jesus taught, because he knew that most people do not understand just how important truth is, Knowing the truth about God, Jesus, and God’s Kingdom, means all of our lives, whether we live forever in a paradise earth, or go into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, that symbolizes being dead forever.
Could this be the reason that some people want to help you know the truth about God!?!? Jesus said that if you remain in his word, you would know the truth and the truth would set you free, John 8:31,32. Free from what!? Free from sin and death!!
Consider a few Scriptures that show us why it is so important to know God and Jesus, John 4:23,24, 1Timothy 4:14-16, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10, 2:8-13. It seem that truth is very important to God!!! Maybe those who try to impress on you the truth of God’s word, love you as Jesus did, they want you to live!!!
Remember, Jesus died for you, and all Christians will do the same!!! John 3:15-18, 10:17,18, 1John 3:16. People talk about the Kingdom of God to you, because they love you!!!
Agape!!!

 

[Shia Islam]

Seriously, why? I honestly don't care what anyone believes, as long as their beliefs don't a) infringe on others' lives and b) don't hurt anyone.

This obsession so many people have to tell others ''you're wrong,'' or ''you're going to hell because you don't believe in...'' it's just mind numbing.

#stopthemadness

In Shia Islam, we believe that, in general, humanity is not yet ready to accept the true religion, and to implement it globally..

Yes, we believe that there are individuals here and there, with open minds and hearts to accept the truth..

So we try cautiously, to find those individuals who are ready to accept the truth..

And, we follow, a middle line: we don't try to impose our views, but we try to continue to make our beliefs clear for those who want to educate themselves..

Now, with all respect, here is my comments on what you said:

What people believe, will certainly have effects on their actions..
And, as humans we have a responsibility to help and guide one another..
That is why dialogue and freedom of speech are important..We should not try to impose our views, but we should not live in isolation from one another..by continuous dialogue the truth will prevail..

 

[BilliardsBall]

Heck, no. I would never waste time with even a reverse Pascal's Wager. That would be giving it entirely too much importance.

I think you misunderstand. You are wagering all you know about the afterlife against eternity.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Sorry, that won't do. I stand by what I said.

I'd agree with you, but I have dozens of college credits and hundreds of hours of personal study on world religions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are you sure Hell does not exist? How did you acquire such afterlife information? Are you unaware Jesus "went there, did that"?

How would you feel if not only does Hell exist but you are asking obstructionist questions of people trying to stop other people from going to Hell?

If Hell does exist, I'd rather be there than with the sadistic god who created it and sends people there. Why would I want to glorify, for all eternity, someone who has no concept of proportionate punishments to fit the crime?

(I have trustworthy, recorded testimonies of the dead and resurrected

You will have to provide these.

Unless God and faith in God exists (I am referring to the biblical God). There is no actual foundation for:

1. Racial equality.
2. The sanctity of human life.
3. The inherent worth of humanity.
4. Objective moral values and duties.
5. Ultimate hope.
6. Ultimate meaning.

We are social animals, we are all human beings, and we evolved to have pro-social characteristics. I do not understand why anyone needs more than that for an equitable, just, and moral society. And why do we need religion and faith and god for meaning and purpose? What good does hope do us in the face of facts? And what inherent value do we have? We like to say we are so valuable and important, but in the grand-scheme of things we're less than fleas hoping around on less than a moss-covered speck of iron adrift in the incomprehensibly vast cosmos. And doesn't #3 also go against the humility that Jesus taught?

Remember, Jesus died for you, and all Christians will do the same!!!

To the contrary, a bunch of Christians here wouldn't die for me, but they will protest and demand it their legally protected-and-entitled-to right to discriminate against me.

 

[Jumi]

I'd agree with you, but I have dozens of college credits and hundreds of hours of personal study on world religions.

And you didn't find a religion without Hell?

Here's one:

According to the ancient beliefs, the fate of good and bad people is the same and the dead wander the afterlife as shadow-like ghosts. Tuoni and his wife Tuonetar are the rulers of Tuonela. At times living people visited Tuonela to gather information and spells. The trip there required weeks of trekking in a desert, and finally the crossing of the river with the help of a ferryman (similar to Charon in Greek mythology). Shamans could visit Tuonela by falling into a trance and tricking the guards.

 

[1robin]

My view isn't the one I held as a child, though that's where my going to church ended, I've only been to funerals since and don't plan to go there for any other reason. It's not that surprising that the church thrived after it became a state religion of practically every European country and became instead the oppressor. Though not all they did was bad, they did destroy many religions and cultures with prejudice. Have you heard of the gnostics?

The church was born and thrived despite entire empires persecuting it. For pity's sake it began the day it's leader died and was outlawed in the only country which contained it in the beginning. It didn't have anything like the power your talking about for hundreds of years.

I agree the church did far too much oppressing at times, but there is a huge difference between the actions of a person and the nature of a religion. I am not defending a pope, I am defending Christ. The NT does not contain a single verse which justifies violence for any reason. You do not judge a teacher by the students that defy his teachings, but by those that obey them.

Of course I have heard of the Gnostics, they are spiritually speaking about the most misguided group out there. Along with pantheists and deists.

I disagree. There never was a reason for racial inequality in the first place.

Evolution (or biology) alone has never made two equal things in history. No one is equal to another in a natural context. If racial equality exists you won't find it or it's foundations in nature. If we are all equal then it must have a supernatural foundation.

That is giving credit to your religion for something that people of other religions also have and no-religion.

I did not understand what you said here. However I am not talking about the belief in something, but the existence of something. Don't get epistemology confused with ontology.

I disagree.

That is not an argument.

Duties are part of human societal structures. Moral values come from traditions more than they come from religion. Case in point is that until late, it used to be no different in the eyes of the law and morals how children were treated than adults. It was scientific and secular progress that changed all that. If objective morals of past religious folks had their say, we would still have child marriages in the west and equal punishments for them.

Your getting subjective presumptions confused with objective truth.

Prove that any act what so ever is actually and objectively wrong without referencing something beyond the material.

Are you aware of what is referred to as the "is - ought" gap concerning the natural world?

I don't feel these are needed. If you need them, and feel your religion gives them to you that's a good thing. For me, accepting anything that comes is the way I go about things.

Your getting the quality of a thing confused with the existence of a thing. You may not feel that cancer is needed but that won't make it any less real.

In gnostic view, knowledge of God is/was primary over faith in God. As such scriptures, church hierarchy and rituals played less of a role, because everyone could find knowledge within themselves. It sounds like how your faith in God is formed is closer to what the early church in it's heterogenous ways had, but what was lost with the suppression of the Gnostic Christians by the mainstream. The question that's more important to me is, is your experience of "being born again" a one time event and does it shake you in a way that you feel like you can ignore some of the scripture because "you know better" or do you feel like it binds you to it once and then you just accept all of the Bible like that.

Gnosticism is the preference for speculation about the transcendent to experiential knowledge of the transcendent.

Trying to describe the born again experience to a person who has not experienced it is far harder than explaining being "in love with someone" to someone who never has been. I can say that it certainly didn't make me feel like I could ignore the bible, it made the bible finally crystalize and come alive.

I already have my perspective of god, though I'm not sure if our gods are the same and if they are, what explains the difference. My gnosis made me realize that no religion really points the way to right or wrong, but that we have to strive for that ourselves. Good intentions and reading books don't necessarily make our morals better, often people lose their lives or worse from people with good intentions that didn't have the real knowledge of how things work. I'm seeing this problem more when religion is used to divide between races or other traits they are born with.

The bible emphatically contradicts your claims about it.

The bible far from division claims that in Christ:

New International Version
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

That verse or a hundred like it are also where racial equality finds it's only possible foundation.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think you misunderstand. You are wagering all you know about the afterlife against eternity.

No, BilliardsBall. I am not.

I am just being reasonable.

 

[Spiderman]

Seriously, why? I honestly don't care what anyone believes, as long as their beliefs don't a) infringe on others' lives and b) don't hurt anyone.

This obsession so many people have to tell others ''you're wrong,'' or ''you're going to hell because you don't believe in...'' it's just mind numbing.

#stopthemadness

You are a beautiful soul Deidre... I wish you were God. If you were God there would be so much more Justice in our world

 

[Deidre]

You are a beautiful soul Deidre... I wish you were God. If you were God there would be so much more Justice in our world

And I'd do away with Mondays. lol

 

[Spiderman]

And I'd do away with Mondays. lol

Happy weekend to you, my noble Queen!

I hope God will learn from your example and be more like you

 

[Jumi]

Of course I have heard of the Gnostics, they are spiritually speaking about the most misguided group out there. Along with pantheists and deists.

What is so misguided about putting spiritual knowledge before middle-men? When Christians who "won" didn't read the Bible, the Gnostics read it. When Christians banned books, the Gnostics had them. When Christians were against personal experience (such as your being "born again"), the Gnostics were for it. I'll edit this a bit: this is not to say that these were the "true Christians", but the reason why Christianity thrived is because of those who persecuted the other religions and heretics.

Originally the Gnostics and Christians were brothers in being persecuted by Empires. Only that when Christians came to dominate, they started oppressing the Gnostics, yet the Gnostics survived and even their books were found, being buried by Christian monks who wanted to save them from the other Christians. But I'm sure you already knew this.

Evolution (or biology) alone has never made two equal things in history. No one is equal to another in a natural context. If racial equality exists you won't find it or it's foundations in nature. If we are all equal then it must have a supernatural foundation.

Or a humanistic foundation. It depends on what you are basing your views on.

I did not understand what you said here. However I am not talking about the belief in something, but the existence of something. Don't get epistemology confused with ontology.

What I mean is, this exists in most places of the world without your religion. Why should your religion get the credit for something that it doesn't own?

That is not an argument.

You can choose what you base your views on.

Your getting subjective presumptions confused with objective truth.

Prove that any act what so ever is actually and objectively wrong without referencing something beyond the material.

Prove then points of your objective morality and I'll consider what you say.

Are you aware of what is referred to as the "is - ought" gap concerning the natural world?

I see that clearly with religions. People who are born gay are "oughted" to be something else, often forcibly, often just pressured into being something they're not.

Gnosticism is the preference for speculation about the transcendent to experiential knowledge of the transcendent.

The opposite of that, actually. Where people think scripture alone is worth consideration, the Gnostic looks first to experiental knowledge. Here the similarity with your modern Christianity and Gnosticism is apparent. It was experiental knowledge that was banned by the Church why the Gnostics were persecuted.

Trying to describe the born again experience to a person who has not experienced it is far harder than explaining being "in love with someone" to someone who never has been. I can say that it certainly didn't make me feel like I could ignore the bible, it made the bible finally crystalize and come alive.

Then that experience is something people of all religions experience with their scripture. Gnosis is different, it gives you experience of God. After that, it doesn't matter if you say "God is this, God is that" and point to scripture for your proof, because you have experienced it and nothing can take it away.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, BilliardsBall. I am not.

I am just being reasonable.

It is (biblically and logically speaking) less than reasonable to ignore the endless parades of persons who say God is self-evident to them as well as the final judgment of the wicked and righteous.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Off the top of my head JWs, much of modern European protestants, the religion of my ancestors... these don't have hell. Probably could add many branches of taoism and confucianism there.

Yes, modernists and JWs have a different take--for example, the JWs say people who are wicked get to see what they'll miss and are annihilated in fire.

This doesn't change the fact that we are responsible to understand how most religious groups teach a final judgment and that the Bible says we are self-aware that God will judge.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Doesn't seem all that different.


Well many of those things you know you shouldn't do are actually things many find are things that are things you should do and think you're going to hell for it.


I understand that you believe this, but to me it's not reliable as science and gnosis. Having read the Bible, I don't believe in the Bible's accuracy historical or prophecywise and don't see any of the miracles being true.

You don't understand the difference between torture and punishment? Really?

A child is put in time out, the tortured get beaten, abused, waterboarded, etc.

People not perfected by the cross of Christ are in eternal time out, not in eternal torturous agony.

And it isn't enough to have "read the Bible". You can and need to go outside the Bible to confirm which Bible prophecies have occurred as historical fact, proving the scriptures.

 

[BilliardsBall]

And you didn't find a religion without Hell?

Here's one:

You shared ONE. I'm citing from THOUSANDS of religious traditions.

Regardless, you should be self-aware of God's judgment.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If Hell does exist, I'd rather be there than with the sadistic god who created it and sends people there. Why would I want to glorify, for all eternity, someone who has no concept of proportionate punishments to fit the crime?

You will have to provide these.

We are social animals, we are all human beings, and we evolved to have pro-social characteristics. I do not understand why anyone needs more than that for an equitable, just, and moral society. And why do we need religion and faith and god for meaning and purpose? What good does hope do us in the face of facts? And what inherent value do we have? We like to say we are so valuable and important, but in the grand-scheme of things we're less than fleas hoping around on less than a moss-covered speck of iron adrift in the incomprehensibly vast cosmos. And doesn't #3 also go against the humility that Jesus taught?

To the contrary, a bunch of Christians here wouldn't die for me, but they will protest and demand it their legally protected-and-entitled-to right to discriminate against me.

Let's start by addressing your first comment:

Hell is proportional to the person sinned against. If you threaten me with gun violence, you may get a free walk. Threaten a President or Prime Minister and you can spend 20 years in jail or more.

I understand that Hell is appropriate for two groups of people (who are the same):

* They rebel against God, far higher than some mere President

* They are imperfect and continue to make excuses for why it's okay to hurt others rather than becoming transformed to never hurt others again

 

[BilliardsBall]

Idk why, but this brought tears to my eyes...this is really beautiful, what you said.

The Spirit is moving! Let Him flow through you!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

* They are imperfect and continue to make excuses for why it's okay to hurt others rather than becoming transformed to never hurt others again

Why assume they think it's ok to hurt others? And are you not aware that many Christians themselves continue to cause hurt and harm to others?