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Why do some Christians reject Baptism saves?
- Thread starter Dogknox20
- Start date
please requery. what are you inquiring about?
Iymus
Active Member
Perhaps because many seemingly profess baptism and yet are still on the broad path or lost;
You would have to be more specific than "Some Christians". More than likely the "Some Christians" are emphasizing or could mean that Baptism by itself does not save.
When you bath you use water and soap and if baptism is the water then what is the soap?
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If you insist on scripture then see the following verses "Luk 23:39 - Luk 23:43" , Essentially a malefactor who seems to be one of honour and integrity and was not baptized will be in paradise.
Perhaps it comes down to what baptism represents and also your actions after.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Fool... Good to meet you.. Simple answer is.. Not all Christians believe Baptism saves... WHY? So do some don't.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Iymus hello... Good to meet you... You make good points and you used scriptures as to con!
I reply with scripture to the pro.
Revelations 2:7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Iymus do you see it... Verse above... Paradise is a GARDEN it is not the kingdom not the throne room! The children of the king can enter the throne room! Think: The Queen of England has over 70 million subjects all can walk around the garden of Buckingham Palace only her children can enter the throne room, only her children have an inheritance!
Acts 20:32 “Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Nova2216
Active Member
You might as well be asking Abraham to be baptized as the thief on the cross for neither of them lived under the NT Covenant we live under today.
To be baptized correctly one must be baptized into Jesus death. (Rom. 6:3,4)
How could the thief be baptized into the death of Christ when Christ had not yet died? (Luke 23:43)
What did baptism represent in (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16)?
Ac 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Ac 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Nova2216
Active Member
Baptism saves just like water saved eight souls in Noah's day (1Peter 3:20,21).
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mark 16:16)
TRUE / FALSE
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mark 16:16)
TRUE / FALSE
The thief on the cross was never baptized but was saved.
i'm not exclusively a christian
there are two baptism.
the one only cleanses the outside. the baptism by fire cleans the inside, that is if the self can overcome it.
matthew 3:11
luke 3:16
matthew 23:25-26
luke 11:39
Iymus
Active Member
Likewise. I have nothing to add unless you are implying or saying that according to the New Testament someone can enter Paradise or the Garden without being saved.
They are and / or will be counted under it.
Luk 1:37
Every descendant of Eve that has died and is not blotted out of the book of life is baptized in Christ death.
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Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
Do you know what baptism is? That is the real question you should start from. It is a person's willful submission to God to do his will. It is a public declaration of faith to all, both humans and angels that one has taken their stand for Jehovah God and his kingdom government in Jesus' Christ's hands, the son of the living God.
God therefore does not accept or recognize the forced baptism of people who are not willing to serve him, or who are unable to understand what the baptism entails. It is also a full submersion in water. It is symbolic. As one goes under water completely, as did Jesus, they are dying to their former course of life, dead to their former self and sins, and as they come out of the water they are raised anew cleansed from sin, set apart as sacred, and holy to do God's will.
God therefore does not accept or recognize the forced baptism of people who are not willing to serve him, or who are unable to understand what the baptism entails. It is also a full submersion in water. It is symbolic. As one goes under water completely, as did Jesus, they are dying to their former course of life, dead to their former self and sins, and as they come out of the water they are raised anew cleansed from sin, set apart as sacred, and holy to do God's will.
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Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Nova2216 it's a pleasure to meet you... YES; You post scriptures... Quoting Romans 6:3-4 right on, no one can die twice... baptized into Jesus death No ONE can die twice; you can't even kill a stinking dog two times! Being ADDED to the Holy Body of Jesus, being IMMERSED into Jesus means you also can't die. Jesus has been there and done that!
Yes I agree with you saying: How could the thief be baptized into the death of Christ when Christ had not yet died?
Nova2216 The Church was not baptizing until Pentecost... The Thief died before Pentecost, he died before he could be baptized! The Thief ended up in Paradise a "Garden" not the throne room he was NOT in Jesus thus he was NOT a child of God!
You quote Acts 2 but miss...Acts 2:40-41
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
These verses (above) tell you 3000 were IMMERSED into the body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost! Thus 3000 became God' children by Baptism!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Nova2216 Yes I again agree "Baptism saves" there are many Christians that would disagree!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
KenS I hope all is well... If you read post #5 above I answered your question... The Thief died before Pentecost he was NOT baptized. The Good Thief ended up in a Garden NOT the throne room!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Fool good point... Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
&
Luke 3:16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
My reply is also with scriptures....Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Fool it takes TWO to form a child.... TWO.. One Mother and one Father! The BRIDE forms God' children the Groom sends the GIFT!
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
No one can baptize them self! The Bride does the Water part God does the Gift part!
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
Fool Water AND PLUS ALSO Fire! NOT water alone Not Spirit alone... AND!
I don't know, but I also don't understand why they think Jesus' sacrifice wasn't good enough to encompass 'all sin's' either. Like it wasn't good enough...
So, to some extent, I think that is an extension of that idea. However, if Jesus is an agent of the all-mighty, then it seems preposterous on-it's-face to accept that his power is limited and that his sacrifice doesn't apply to all and any sin in the future. If God's power becomes limited we could argue that he then ceases to be a God.
What the Bible says:
1) Jesus died for our sins. All of them. It didn't come with a time limitation.
2) Accepting Jesus was good enough to get into heaven.
3) Baptism was a symbol of faith, but not completely necessary. Nothing is more important than #2.
What Christians Believe:
1) Apparently, the sins before Jesus' sacrifice were null and void. After... Not so much.
2) If you're sinful you get put out of heaven.
3) Baptism is mandatory. You can't get into heaven without it.
To me, these are simply corrupted teachings on display, lol.
All is very well, thanks for asking. God is faithful... even when I am not faithful.
Yes, you are right about before Pentecost. But then I would have to ask, "Why would it be necessary, a physical substance that is waiting for redemption, be a requirement for salvation? And how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit of God before being recreated into a new creation?"
Of course, as do I, many believe that those who died in faith pre-Pentecost still ended up in the Throne Room.
Then you have a theological problem of, "What happened to those who received Jesus before being thrown into the Roman Colosseum?" - Did they not get saved because there was no time for water baptism?
All in all I agree that you should be baptized-and I don't think there are Christians who reject it but rather question it as a requirement for salvation. I just don't see enough evidence that it was a requirement that denied salvation if not accomplished.
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
All is very well, thanks for asking. God is faithful... even when I am not faithful.
Yes, you are right about before Pentecost. But then I would have to ask, "Why would it be necessary, a physical substance that is waiting for redemption, be a requirement for salvation? And how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit of God before being recreated into a new creation?"
Of course, as do I, many believe that those who died in faith pre-Pentecost still ended up in the Throne Room.
Then you have a theological problem of, "What happened to those who received Jesus before being thrown into the Roman Colosseum?" - Did they not get saved because there was no time for water baptism?
All in all I agree that you should be baptized-and I don't think there are Christians who reject it but rather question it as a requirement for salvation. I just don't see enough evidence that it was a requirement that denied salvation if not accomplished.
The Bible tells you where every human has gone at death. That is to sleep.
The apostle Peter said that not even David went to heaven:
"For David did not ascend to the heavens."-Acts 2:34.
Jesus himself said that no man has ascended to heaven accept for the one that descended:
"Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man."-John 3:13.
Even Paul said that the first century Christians that were anointed with holy spirit and called to serve in heaven as kings and priests should console each other with the fact that they are awaiting sleeping in death for Jesus' return:
"Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus."-1 Thessalonians 4:13, 14.
All the scriptures that talk about the resurrection to heavenly life say it is at the return and manifestation of Jesus in heaven:
"For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. So keep comforting one another with these words."-1 Thessalonians 4:15-18.
Talking of the resurrection to heavenly life we are told that it is when Jesus returns. Those who have fallen asleep in death will be raised first, and then those of us remaining alive during that time will be caught away with them.
This time is after the great tribulation:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity."-Matthew 24:29-31.
So no human has ever ascended to heaven accept for the one that descended, the son of man, Jesus Christ, the son of the living God. He now reigns in heaven at God's right hand. He will shortly come to wage war against this wicked system. After the great tribulation though, and before Armageddon, Jesus descends with the commanding call of the archangel he is, and he will resurrect those who have been called to reign in heaven, and then he will sweep away those of us that are remaining alive during that time.
There is only a limited number who have been called to heaven. And they are sleeping in death along with everyone else awaiting the return of Christ. According to the unfailing words of truth in the Bible.
There is a second resurrection. This is not of the kings and priests who will reign in heaven, but of the rest of mankind, both righteous and unrighteous to an earthly paradise. Those kings in heaven will rule over those on earth.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Baptism on its own does not "save" someone. It is, however, a saving ordinance or sacrament that, among other things, demonstrates our obedience to God. For me, it means that I've entered into a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ, wherein I promise to always remember Him and keep His commandments, and He, in turn, promises me salvation and the strength to overcome my weaknesses.
jesus sent the apostles out to baptize in the name. that is the part which is by fire and cleans the inside of the cup