Why do trinitarian ideologists say that Jesus Christ is YHWH?

[Soapy]

Jesus became a man after Adam was a man.



Col 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
If all things were created through Him why do you think that Jesus also was created?



By "first covenant" is meant the Mosaic Covenant. Adam was not a Covenant.



Col 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
The heavens were created also and were created through and for Jesus.
Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.



Zech 14: 9 On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth— the LORD alone, and His name alone.



The heavens can also refer to the spiritual realm.

• “Jesus became a man after Adam was a man.”

Of course this is true. Jesus was born thousands of years after Adam. The SECOND (and the LAST) man born by the spirit of God. They were made in the image of God, meaning they were both Holy, Righteous, and Sinless.

Brian2, you know better than those wrong answers you just posted.

‘Heaven’ is not ‘Heavens’ and is clearly distinguished. ‘Heavens’, at no time, was ever suggested as being ‘The Spiritual Realm’.

‘The ruler of God’s creation’, is symbolism - A ruler to be. Until Satan is destroyed, he is still ‘The ruler of this order of things’. We might like to think and believe that Jesus is the CURRENT RULER OF THE WORLD but if you think so then Jesus is responsible for the current situation that is in the world. And we know that it is not so!!

• “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ,” (2 Cor 4:4)
• “We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one “ (1 John 5:19)
• “I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,” (John 14:30)

The verse was mistranslated for trinitarian ears and eyes. Go back to ‘The greatest of God’s creation - the pre-eminent of the creation of God’. The verse is echoing this claim: ‘The pre-eminent of the creation of God’… verses concur!!

And covenant… If there had not been a fault with the first MAN there would have been no need of a SECOND (and LAST) MAN. If Adam had not sinned, would there have been a need for the creation of a second sinless man?
Jesus was created and sent to save the world from the eternal sin of the first man. If Adam had not created the situation of the word needing to be saved, what purpose would there be for a second sinless man - all of the offsprings of the first Adam’s would also be sinless!!

I bet you shudder when you read these truths and wonder how you are going to counter them. But why do that? Is truth too much did you?

 

[Brian2]

• “Jesus became a man after Adam was a man.”

Of course this is true. Jesus was born thousands of years after Adam.

Jesus became a man after Adam was a man. The pre human Jesus was before Adam.

‘Heaven’ is not ‘Heavens’ and is clearly distinguished. ‘Heavens’, at no time, was ever suggested as being ‘The Spiritual Realm’.

Genesis 1:1 - The Creation

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

biblehub.com

Notice that heaven is in the plural in most translations.
The spiritual realm was part of the creation and was created through the pre human Jesus.

‘The ruler of God’s creation’, is symbolism - A ruler to be. Until Satan is destroyed, he is still ‘The ruler of this order of things’. We might like to think and believe that Jesus is the CURRENT RULER OF THE WORLD but if you think so then Jesus is responsible for the current situation that is in the world. And we know that it is not so!!

Satan is the prince, god, ruler of this world but that means that people follow him and is not about the one ruling the creation.
However you are right that the Kingdom of God is not fully established yet.

The verse was mistranslated for trinitarian ears and eyes. Go back to ‘The greatest of God’s creation - the pre-eminent of the creation of God’. The verse is echoing this claim: ‘The pre-eminent of the creation of God’… verses concur!!

I'm not sure which verses you are talking about but Jesus was not created because all things that were created were done so through Jesus.
The uncreated pre human Jesus did however step into the creation to become a man.

And covenant… If there had not been a fault with the first MAN there would have been no need of a SECOND (and LAST) MAN. If Adam had not sinned, would there have been a need for the creation of a second sinless man?
Jesus was created and sent to save the world from the eternal sin of the first man. If Adam had not created the situation of the word needing to be saved, what purpose would there be for a second sinless man - all of the offsprings of the first Adam’s would also be sinless!!

If nobody had ever sinned then Jesus would not have had to come and die for us.
If Adam had not sinned then I imagine other humans might have sinned anyway.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...........................................Then things start getting more confusing when we get to passages like Zech 14:9
Zech 14:9 On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth— the LORD alone, and His name alone.

Yes, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) does appear at Zech 14: 9 as KJV LORD in all Upper-Case letters.
To me there is a connection in verse 8 because in verse 8 we are also told that 'in that day' (thousand-year day) living waters will flow....
In case you have not noticed I'm fond of referring to Rev. 22:1-2, and in verse 2 B there I see a connection to Lamb Jesus.
Thus, the flowing water is from the seat of the Messianic Kingdom under Christ's Millennial reign over Earth - 1st Cor. 15:24-26
Jesus, as King of God's Kingdom for a thousand years, begins that new phase of LORD God's rulership over Earth.
Humans world wide will recognize who Jesus said to worship at John 4:23-24 as does Jesus. - Rev. 3:12,21.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

............................................By "first covenant" is meant the Mosaic Covenant. Adam was not a Covenant.

...........................................The heavens can also refer to the spiritual realm.

I agree that Adam was Not a Covenant.
...... and I think I know what you mean by saying the Mosaic Covenant was the first because it was for the nation of ancient Israel.
However, some have called Genesis 8:18-22 as the Noachin Covenant as first ( first before the Mosaic Law )
Then, at Genesis 9 the covenant called the Rainbow Covenant also before the Mosaic Law.
God also made a covenant with Abraham at Genesis 17:2 the Abrahamic Covenant.
Besides the Covenant of Circumcision at Gen. 17:9-14 before the Mosaic Law
All this before the mention of the ' Everlasting Covenant ' at Gen. 17:7 in connection to Jeremiah 31:31-34

Absolutely, agree the heavens can also refer to the spirit or spiritual realm because Notice where God resides at 1st Kings 8:27,39
For the ' heavens of heavens ' can not contain God.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus became a man after Adam was a man. The pre human Jesus was before Adam.

There was no pre-human Jesus. There was only the prophesy of the Messiah which was realised in the man, Jesus (Christ).

Genesis 1:1 - The Creation

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

biblehub.com

Notice that heaven is in the plural in most translations.
The spiritual realm was part of the creation and was created through the pre human Jesus.

The Spiritual realm (HEAVEN) was not part of Creation. God existed in the spiritual realm before creation. HEAVEN existed before creation … God created ‘THE HEAVENS and the earth’.

Satan is the prince, god, ruler of this world but that means that people follow him and is not about the one ruling the creation.

Funny!!!

However you are right that the Kingdom of God is not fully established yet.

Excellent.

I'm not sure which verses you are talking about but Jesus was not created because all things that were created were done so through Jesus.
The uncreated pre human Jesus did however step into the creation to become a man.

God created all things. Jesus is not God.
God created all things FOR the Son of his love.
God is Spirit and rules the spiritual realm.
Jesus is humankind, a physical being. God created a physical image of himself to rule over the physical realm.

If Jesus was a pre-human spirit then he must have been GOD since there was no other being in the spirit realm in the beginning.
If Jesus was God ruling over the spirit realm … why would he seek to DEMOTE HIMSELF by becoming ruler over a far far far limited realm of creation?
And, who is ruler over HEAVEN, the spirit realm, when Jesus, is man ruling over the physical realm on the seat of his ancestor King David?

If nobody had ever sinned then Jesus would not have had to come and die for us.
If Adam had not sinned then I imagine other humans might have sinned anyway.

Jesus was created for the primary purpose of dying for the salvation of mankind. His sinless, unblemished soul taken in death to served as the penance for the eternal sin of Adam. You know that no one of Adam’s offspring was ever found to be the perfect sacrifice that God desired - and that is why God created Jesus. If Adam had not sinned but had offspring who were also sinless then one of them would be called to serve as the sacrifice for the ones that did sin. No Jesus would have need be created… However, the one called to be the sacrifice would still have been called ‘Jesus’ (‘Yeshua’ / ‘Joshua’) since the name means what God proposed: ‘He that saves his people’.

 

[Soapy]

I agree that Adam was Not a Covenant.

My purpose for stating that there was a second covenant was only to illustrate the much neglected but much repeated THEME of there being a first that has faults and that first being superseded by a second.
Why you and Brian2 take it out of context is purely to further controversy rather than relate to truth. It seems (and I said it before) many are only here act as DEVIL’S ADVOCATES…

How many examples of this ‘first turning bad and a second (and/or Last) being brought up to replace the first? Can you list any?

Let me give you some examples:

1. Adam - first created of mankind - sinned - replaced by a second ‘ADAM’…
2. Cain - first child of Adam… replaced by Seth
3. Ishmael - first of Abraham - Isaac
4. Esau - Jacob
5. Jacob’s first son - Joseph
6. Jesse’s first son - David
7. David’s first son - Solomon
8. Ephraim - Judah
9. First (Mosaic nation) Covenant - Second / Last Covenant under Jesus Christ

• “He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:9)
• “When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.” (Hebrews 8:13)

In fact there were many nations before the Israelites but God saw only one as serving him which he called, ‘My firstborn’ (Israel) which does not mean ‘FIRST BORN’ (out of the ‘womb’) but ‘GREATEST / MOST LOVED OF ALL’.

...... and I think I know what you mean by saying the Mosaic Covenant was the first because it was for the nation of ancient Israel.
However, some have called Genesis 8:18-22 as the Noachin Covenant as first ( first before the Mosaic Law )
Then, at Genesis 9 the covenant called the Rainbow Covenant also before the Mosaic Law.
God also made a covenant with Abraham at Genesis 17:2 the Abrahamic Covenant.
Besides the Covenant of Circumcision at Gen. 17:9-14 before the Mosaic Law
All this before the mention of the ' Everlasting Covenant ' at Gen. 17:7 in connection to Jeremiah 31:31-34

Absolutely, agree the heavens can also refer to the spirit or spiritual realm because Notice where God resides at 1st Kings 8:27,39
For the ' heavens of heavens ' can not contain God.

• “But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! … Hear the supplication of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place. Hear from heaven, your dwelling place, and when you hear, forgive. ” (1 Kings 8:27, 30)
• “then hear from heaven, your dwelling place.” (1 Kings 8:39)

‘Hear from HEAVEN, your dwelling place’… ‘nuff said!!

Verse 27 also says it all about ‘God coming to earth’ which is an obvious fallacy. It says that creation CANNOT contain God. The HEAVENS are envisioned as LAYERS. The verse says that even the HIGHEST of these layers (in other words, the LARGEST IN VOLUME) cannot contain God. The verse is NOT saying that THE SPIRIT REALM cannot contain GOD… the spirit realm HAS NO DIMENSIONS to act as a container!!!