Why do trinitarian ideologists say that Jesus Christ is YHWH?

[URAVIP2ME]

Nonetheless, Jesus is named creator of all things. Which is the place of God. Jesus is the forgiver of sins. Which is the place of God.
Numbers 21:6
1 Corinthians 10:9
Jesus is placed directly into the role of the LORD.

I find the Tetragrammaton at Numbers 21:6. The Tetragrammaton is Not applied to Lord Jesus.
Lord Jesus is Not mentioned at 1st Cor, 10:9
Verse 9 connects to Deut. 6:16 where the Tetragrammaton appears.

Lord Jesus is the second Lord at KJV Psalm 110
The Tetragrammaton is applied to the LORD in all capital letters. YHWH

 

[Soapy]

That's your arrogance and you being disrespectful to me sharing my personal experience and belief, hence imposing on me. You act like you are God, while having no clue about my relationship with God (unless you are omniscient, God)

This is definitely not for you to say
This is between me and God only

Belittling feelings and/or faith of others is one of the "worst of sins", as you trample their soul (personal relationship with God)

I avoid such people like I avoid the plague, because you only try to sabotage my belief
@stvdvRF

So you think that telling you the truth is belittling…?

If you were saying you believed in a different faith to Christianity then maybe you would have some kind of case. But you are in a Christian thread - and GOD does not speak directly to sinful mankind - He has DELEGATED the task to Jesus Christ, which is why Jesus is the MEDIATOR between sinful mankind and Almighty God.
That’s why we pray TO GOD in THE NAME of Jesus Christ. If we pray correctly in the name of Jesus Christ then God will answer us THROUGH Jesus Christ - the mediator!:
• Defendent <—-> Solicitor <—-> Judge
• Mankind <——> Jesus <——> GOD

 

[Soapy]

I find the Tetragrammaton at Numbers 21:6. The Tetragrammaton is Not applied to Lord Jesus.
Lord Jesus is Not mentioned at 1st Cor, 10:9
Verse 9 connects to Deut. 6:16 where the Tetragrammaton appears.

Lord Jesus is the second Lord at KJV Psalm 110
The Tetragrammaton is applied to the LORD in all capital letters. YHWH

When you say ‘Applied’, you do know that it is not an ‘applying’ situation!?

It is literally an ‘obscuring substitution’: INSTEAD OF writing ‘YHWH’, the Bible TRANSLATORS wrote the word ‘LORD’ INSTEAD as it was considered possible that it could be blasphemous to SPEAK the name of God: ‘YHWH’.

But we should NOT BE FEARFUL of using God’s name IF WE ARE BEING SINCERE… so you see, by writing ‘LORD’, instead of ‘YHWH’, trinitarians think they can abuse the truth about God with impunity just because they didn’t say ‘YHWH’ as they create false Christian teachings.

The greatest sin is when they claim that Jesus Christ IS ‘YHWH’… but it’s just as bad to say that Jesus Christ is ‘LORD’… since they are doing exactly what Satan tried to do for himself: place him on the throne of God.

But see here: It is clear from scriptures that Jesus is not a bodily nor spirit presence in the Old Testament - all utterances were from YHWH GOD. YHWH God was prophesied to SPEAK THROUGH the messiah ‘in the fullness of time’ - which is the time in the New Testament.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

When you say ‘Applied’, you do know that it is not an ‘applying’ situation!?
It is literally an ‘obscuring substitution’: INSTEAD OF writing ‘YHWH’, the Bible TRANSLATORS wrote the word ‘LORD’ INSTEAD as it was considered possible that it could be blasphemous to SPEAK the name of God: ‘YHWH’.
But we should NOT BE FEARFUL of using God’s name IF WE ARE BEING SINCERE… so you see, by writing ‘LORD’, instead of ‘YHWH’, trinitarians think they can abuse the truth about God with impunity just because they didn’t say ‘YHWH’ as they create false Christian teachings.
The greatest sin is when they claim that Jesus Christ IS ‘YHWH’… but it’s just as bad to say that Jesus Christ is ‘LORD’… since they are doing exactly what Satan tried to do for himself: place him on the throne of God.
But see here: It is clear from scriptures that Jesus is not a bodily nor spirit presence in the Old Testament - all utterances were from YHWH GOD. YHWH God was prophesied to SPEAK THROUGH the messiah ‘in the fullness of time’ - which is the time in the New Testament.

Bible translators stemming from un-faithful Jews being superstitious about saying God's name.
JKV translators chose capital letters LORD for the Tetragrammaton, and some lower-case letters for Lord Jesus - Psalm 110 - No Tetragrammaton
However, KJV translators did print God's name in English as found at Psalm 83:18 B
Jesus did Not teach it could be blasphemous to Speak God's hallowed name - John 17:6; John 17:26
Yes, Jesus was in the OT as we can read at Genesis 1:26. Jesus being one of the 'us'.
That does mean God was speaking to Himself but to another person.
According to John that other person was pre-human heavenly Jesus - Rev. 3:14 B

 

[Mister Emu]

I find the Tetragrammaton at Numbers 21:6

Precisely. The Lord God, YHWH, sent venomous serpents to punish those who tempted Him.

Lord Jesus is Not mentioned at 1st Cor, 10:9

The word used is Christ, and it was Christ who sent the snake in Numbers, Christ who is identified as YHWH.

The Tetragrammaton is applied to the LORD in all capital letters. YHWH

Yes. As when YHWH created the heavens and the Earth. Now tell me, based on John 1, who created the Earth? Based on Colossians 1:15, who created everything?
That's right. Jesus.

Jesus is the Biblical creator of all things.
YHWH is the Biblical creator of all things. Both statements are fully supported by and incontravertible within the context of the Bible.

There is only one conclusion. Jesus the person is YHWH.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Precisely. The Lord God, YHWH, sent venomous serpents to punish those who tempted Him.
The word used is Christ, and it was Christ who sent the snake in Numbers, Christ who is identified as YHWH.
Yes. As when YHWH created the heavens and the Earth. Now tell me, based on John 1, who created the Earth? Based on Colossians 1:15, who created everything?That's right. Jesus.Jesus is the Biblical creator of all things.YHWH is the Biblical creator of all things. Both statements are fully supported by and incontravertible within the context of the Bible.There is only one conclusion. Jesus the person is YHWH.

Not tempted, but rebellious.
The word LORD for YHWH is only used for LORD God (KJV) Lord Jesus is the other Lord of Psalm 110.
Do you find two (2) LORD/Lord's at Psalm 110 ________
At John One we find that pre-human heavenly Jesus was " IN " the beginning, No mention of " BEFORE " the beginning.
However, at Psalm 90:2 we find that God is both from and to everlasting meaning: NO beginning for God.
God had No beginning, No start, but pre-human heavenly Jesus, who was sent by God, had a beginning - Rev. 3:14 B; John 1:14
So, only God was "BEFORE" the beginning of anything, whereas pre-human heavenly Jesus was "IN" the beginning, Not "BEFORE".
At Col. 1:15 Jesus is the image Not the person. Just as looking into a mirror one sees an image and Not the actual person.- Hebrews 1:3
God is Not ever first born (Psalm90:2) but Jesus is God's only-begotten Son. Pre-human Jesus has a Father. Jesus did Not father himself.
Or, as Proverbs 8:22 refers to Jesus as being produced..... ( The one speaking there is said to be created )
I find the question at Proverbs 30:4 B involves two (2) different names _________ _________
I find at John 17:6, 26 Jesus talks Not about his name but another's name.

 

[stvdv]

So you think that telling you the truth is belittling…?

No,

1) You make claims about belief matters, which is absurd. Belief is called Belief for a reason...as simple as that

 

[Mister Emu]

Not tempted, but rebellious.

It doesn't matter what word you use to describe the Hebrews spoken of in Numbers/Colossians. You are evading answering the actual argument by diverting to extraneous information.
1) YHWH sent the venomous snakes. (Num)
2) Christ sent the venomous snakes. (Col)
C) Christ is YHWH.

At John One we find that pre-human heavenly Jesus was " IN " the beginning, No mention of " BEFORE " the beginning.

"He is before all things".

1) YHWH created all things. (Gen)
2) Jesus created all things. (John)
C) Jesus is YHWH.

Christ is the Word of God. Every time God speaks, it is Christ you hear, Christ that reaches to you. When Moses heard God in the burning bush, he heard Christ.

God had No beginning, No start, but pre-human heavenly Jesus, who was sent by God, had a beginning - Rev. 3:14 B; John 1:14

Christ is the beginning, not has a beginning.

At Col. 1:15 Jesus is the image Not the person.

No Trinitarian says that Jesus is the person of the Father. Or that Jesus is not begotten by the Father, or has Fathered Himself. The Father eternally begets the Son and the Spirit eternally proceeds from Him. None of the three are each other, none have a beginning, all are the fullness of God.

 

[Soapy]

Bible translators stemming from un-faithful Jews being superstitious about saying God's name.
JKV translators chose capital letters LORD for the Tetragrammaton, and some lower-case letters for Lord Jesus - Psalm 110 - No Tetragrammaton
However, KJV translators did print God's name in English as found at Psalm 83:18 B
Jesus did Not teach it could be blasphemous to Speak God's hallowed name - John 17:6; John 17:26
Yes, Jesus was in the OT as we can read at Genesis 1:26. Jesus being one of the 'us'.
That does mean God was speaking to Himself but to another person.
According to John that other person was pre-human heavenly Jesus - Rev. 3:14 B

Do you hear your own words: ‘God was speaking to another person’…

Yes, the ‘US’ was not a pre-human Jesus.

I think you are trying to tread a path between Trinitarians who claim Jesus WAS GOD (which would he to say GOD was speaking to himself) and Jesus was another sentient Being to whom God was speaking (Meaning Jesus was not God but an angel).

But the truth is that, Yes, it wasn’t GOD speaking to himself (How many people are ‘US’ - One? Two?? Three??? Four???? Ten, twenty, a thousand?) and Yes, IT WAS an angel God spike to: Satan… the highest and most glorious of all the angels of God at that time.

But this is not to say that Satan created Mankind. The scriptures does not say that. The scriptures says that ‘GOD created man in HIS IMAGE!’. Satan created the BODY of the man but GOD made the man to be a LIVING SOUL!!

A created body is not a LIVING SOUL. The body is a mere INERT ENTITY. Recall that the angels who rebelled from their Heavenly stations to join Satan, also CREATED BODIES for themselves BUT they could not put INDEPENDENT spirit in them so they could only put THEMSELVES (they are Spirit) in the bodies to ENLIVEN THEM in order to carry out the functions of a living ENTITY.

Can you ask yourself: If GOD was truly saying ‘US’ and ‘WE’ as a plural God or speaking of Jesus as a pre-human Heavenly entity… WHY does scriptures never, afterwards, refer to ‘US’ and ‘WE’ anywhere else in any scriptures?

 

[Soapy]

It doesn't matter what word you use to describe the Hebrews spoken of in Numbers/Colossians. You are evading answering the actual argument by diverting to extraneous information.
1) YHWH sent the venomous snakes. (Num)
2) Christ sent the venomous snakes. (Col)
C) Christ is YHWH.


"He is before all things".

1) YHWH created all things. (Gen)
2) Jesus created all things. (John)
C) Jesus is YHWH.

Christ is the Word of God. Every time God speaks, it is Christ you hear, Christ that reaches to you. When Moses heard God in the burning bush, he heard Christ.


Christ is the beginning, not has a beginning.


No Trinitarian says that Jesus is the person of the Father. Or that Jesus is not begotten by the Father, or has Fathered Himself. The Father eternally begets the Son and the Spirit eternally proceeds from Him. None of the three are each other, none have a beginning, all are the fullness of God.

What does ‘Eternally Begets the Son’ mean?

 

[Soapy]

No,

1) You make claims about belief matters, which is absurd. Belief is called Belief for a reason...as simple as that

What is the belief you speaking about?

 

[stvdv]

What is the belief you speaking about?

Any belief falls under "belief"

 

[Soapy]

And Christ is placed into the role of the LORD at several points in the history of salvation. As the creator God, as the redeemer God, as the God who sent snakes, etc.

Wrong on everything you just said.

Just simply understand that ‘LORD’ is NOT SCRIPTURAL.

It is a TRINITARIAN SUBSTITUTION for ‘YHWH’.
It has absolutely no validity in terms of PROOF concerning Jesus Christ.

It is a DELIBERATE substitution - the trap that you have fallen into. It is purposely designed to confuse the unwary reader into believing that Jesus is God.

Ok, here is a test: REPLACE BACK the name ‘YHWH’ where you see ‘LORD’ SUBSTITUTED in the scriptures (JW did that and got torn apart by Trinitarians for doing so!)

YHWH, when given it’s MEANING, is a shortening of the term: ‘I am what I am’, or ‘I am whom I am’. It is a meaning that states that the entity is eternal - from eternal past to eternal future.

But you say that this meaning also applies to Jesus Christ? How?

Even Jesus Christ says of himself:
… “I WAS DEAD … BUT … am NOW alive for eternity”!

How can you say that someone who was DEAD at one time is from eternal to eternal.

Jesus was the Messiah TO COME. But YHWH has ALWAYS BEEN.

Jesus Christ was SENT by YHWH - NO ONE SENDS YHWH. YHWH does not send YHWH!

 

[Soapy]

Any belief falls under "belief"

So you don’t know what YOUR belief is?

Jesus Christ criticised the Pharisees for their unfounded beliefs.

Jesus Christ criticised the Sadducees for their unfounded beliefs.

Jesus Christ criticised the other unfounded Jewish beliefs.

Are you saying that it is wrong to criticise misappropriations in belief?

You refuse to name your belief because you fear criticisms? What are you fearing if you feel you are justified in your belief?

 

[stvdv]

So you don’t know what YOUR belief is?

I Know

 

[stvdv]

Jesus Christ criticised the Pharisees for their unfounded beliefs.

Jesus fasted 40 days. You also do that?

 

[stvdv]

Are you saying that it is wrong to criticise misappropriations in belief?

No

You refuse to name your belief because you fear criticisms?

No

 

[stvdv]

No

What are you fearing if you feel you are justified in your belief?

n.a.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus fasted 40 days. You also do that?

The ^ above ^ has nothing to do with the traditions of the Pharisees - Matt.15:9 - or being a Christian.
No longer under the Mosaic Law, food does Not commend us to God <- 1st Cor. 8:8; Romans 7:6; 10:4; 14:17

 

[Mister Emu]

Just simply understand that ‘LORD’ is NOT SCRIPTURAL.

It is a TRINITARIAN SUBSTITUTION for ‘YHWH’.

The use of Lord in place of the Tetragrammaton predates the birth of Christ by hundreds of years.

It has absolutely no validity in terms of PROOF concerning Jesus Christ.

I don't care about the linguistic quirks, your rant about the usage of the word LORD in place of the Tetragrammaton has no bearing on the fact that biblically YHWH is the creator of earth AND that Jesus is the creator of earth(along with every other created thing).

What does ‘Eternally Begets the Son’ mean?

Anything outside of time is eternal.