Why do you dislike Islam?

[Notanumber]

Why are western leaders infatuated by Islam?

I presume the video has been flagged because it tells the truth and the truth hurts.

 

[Nakosis]

Confirm if that was a claim and not the truth by an evidence, otherwise it's
just an opinion and it can't be taken seriously.

A claim needs to be validated by evidence in order to be accepted as something which is true, not the other way around.

A claim which is not proven can be disregarding as easily as it was to make the claim in the first place.

Of course you don't have to disregard such claims, however people are imperfect. It's really foolish to accept a claim or support a claim that you, yourself cannot prove.

So I'm not saying there is no God nor that God didn't give messengers the authority to speak for him. What I am doing is disregarding claims that are not proven as any rational person would.

 

[Faithofchristian]

First of all, you can not separate Muslims from the Q'uran, both go hand in hand.

It was made mention, that Christians have as much blood on their hands as anyone.

Which Christians are you referring to?

If a person looks around the world, Muslims are causing more Terrorist around the world than anyone else.

When a Muslim enters another country, they think that Country should bow to them, and go Muslim sharia law.

It's like every thing they are defended by. Well if Muslims do not like how people live in another country, no one's holding them to stay.its all about control and conquer to Muslims.
And yes if you want to know I have read the Q'uran many times.
It may not seem right to you, Muslims do live by the Q'uran. And by the q'uran Muslims are permitted to deceive and lie to gain control over what their prophet Muhammad calls infidel's.
They are to become friends,until the month of jihada which is the month of June and then kill the infidels.

Show me as to where in bible of the New Testament that Christ Jesus or any of the disciples tells Christians to go out and kill innocent people as do Muslims, cutting off people heads.and in the raping of young girls and the brutality of women. As do Muslims. This is what the Muslims prophet muhammad teaches in the Q'uran.

So when you ask, why do you dislike Islam.
The best way to answer this, Let the evidence speak for it's self.
Who was it that ramed the Jet planes into the Twin Towers in NYC ?
Who is it that takes innocent people and beheads them?
Who is it that takes innocent people as hostages?
Who is it that demands the countries they go into to bow to them and their Sharia law?

If you figure out, who they are, then you will have your answer to, Why do you dislike Islam.
By Nature I am a peaceful person, but if they try to push their agenda this way.i will defend myself and my Country.
This is one of the many reasons why Trump was elected as President.
Not to let no one walk No More on us American people No More.

 

[Nakosis]

Peace be with you Laika, your response to this thread has warmed me to you. The irony you present isn't lost on me. Those who speak against Islam are the ones doing all the finger pointing here on RF. Meanwhile we Muslims, the silent minority, are rolling eyeballs. Turbo eyerolls.

As for Muslims with SSA (same sex attraction), A Muslim youtube channel didn't see a problem with filming an entire series with a Muslim man who has same sex attraction - of course the man himself is chaste. Here is one segment, of Paul (who has SSA) talking with Hussain. Both are Muslim. Filmed at the prestigious Regents Park Mosque:

Very calm, rational conversation. Quite endearing actually.



It's funny. When the very same posters who have an issue with Moozlums, wonder why the medical establishments are literally packed with Muslim Doctors, Physicians and Nurses etc. They can't work it out? Now you know why I stay silent. There is no reasoning with the "unreasonable" types. Just read through this thread. You'd think, after the number of years Muslims have posted rebuttals to commonly held misconceptions here on RF, there would be a change of wind... but no. Can't reason with them. They've shut their ears and blabbered their tongues ignorantly believing their islamophobic narrative is the only one which sticks.



I certainly am not here for that. If any of these members truly wanted to learn about Islam, they'd do so. But all they seem to do is feed their bias against it.



Here is one quote:

The Qur'an: 2nd Chapter, Al Baqarah (The Cow) [Heffer]

6. Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

Which is why it is pointless attempting to reason with the unreasonable types

7. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allah's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.

Sad as this is, it is what it is - but the non believers should't care about some "torment" they do not believe in. This is, after all, not their belief. So they have no right to cry about it.

8. And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not.

9. They (think to) deceive Allah and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!

Many who are in for a penny and out for a pound. Including scholars for the dollars. God alone knows who is a true believer and who is not

10. In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.

Of the hypocrites and those whom are clear in disbelief, are you not reminded of any members on this forum ??? such as those who would feed each others bias to speak so vehemently opposed to Islam???

11. And when it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "We are only peacemakers."

Ah, bingo... today we have the likes of Trump, and others who came before him - from the America's and Europe - these leaders who supposedly speak for their respective nations but in reality only speak for the powerhouses they represent. Did the Million Man March in London stop Tony Blair from invading Iraq on the pretense of "Weapons of Mass Destruction" ??? Will similar narratives stop Trump? Did they stop the two Bush's? I can carry on, and on.

12. Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not.

Clear as day to me, and to you! Unless you too "perceive it not"

Peace!

That's all pretty horrible.

It's basically claiming that non-believers are not rational and any discourse between believers and non-believers is pointless.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

My purpose of this thread is to not win anything but to address the personal issues that people have concerning Islam, and my "whatboutism" was addressing another posters view concerning fanaticism because fanaticism exists in all three Abrahamic faiths and Islam is not unique. With respect to your post abut Shari'ah Law you're not very clever and in fact that is a typical response from those ignorant of Islam and Shari'ah Law. Before we can go further I suggest you read the following link:

Shariah And Fiqh. Do You Know The Difference?

Anny further questioning and cherrypicking on the link will not be addressed. I suggest you also read a brief understanding what fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) means in conjunction with Shar'ah Law. You'll see that some schools of thought like the Ismaili School of thought and Maliki School of thought differ on certain issues concerning Shar'ah Law and how certain punishments are carried out. You'll find Shari'ah Law is more complex than you think.

If you want a simpler understanding of fiqh go here:Fiqh - Wikipedia

There is a reason Shari'ah Law is an elective study at UCLA for law students. Sheesh how typical.

What a dodge.

I read it and learned the difference. I don't understand why you posted this because it says nothing that disputes what I offered you. Fiqh does supersede Sharia law a defined by the Quran, it merely fills in the gaps with interpretations that are not explicitly outlined.

I have no idea why you responded with that. I can only assume that the tactic of offering links with no value to the discussion is designed to distract us from the reality of what most Muslims believe. That's not going to fool anyone.

All you've really done is claim that I don't understand it. Explain to me how it's okay that hundreds of millions of Muslims think people should be punished for choosing to not be Muslims anymore, as well as be punished for other offenses that should have no legal bearing.

I explained why these findings in the the survey I posted bother me about Islam. You have yet to counter it except to claim that I'm ignorant and I don't understand it.

So educate me. Is apostasy a crime in your eyes? Is it a crime according to Sharia law? Are the majority of Muslims represented in the the survey wrong, or does it sound about right to you?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It occurs to me that I should point something out here. I don't dislike Islam simply because it's exotic. Nor do I dislike it because of it's obvious roots as a tool of conquest. Judaism and Christianity both have that all over them as well.
I have problems with religion in general, but Abrahamic in particular.

Partly because they are so dominant in my western world. But mainly because of much of the deleterious teachings and attitudes and cultures they support. From the "invincible ignorance" to the overbearing belief that one is smarter and better than everyone else who don't understand God as well as you do to dragging primitive science and ethics into the modern world. Lots of things.

Now, none of this is unique to Islam. Plenty of Christians are similar and some Jews. But most of that was burned out of Judaism by centuries of dispersion. Christianity largely had it's fangs pulled by the Enlightenment and subsequent improvement to science and ethics and governance.

It seems to me that Islam is more impervious to this sort of improvement. The teaching that one single book, from an ancient time in an ancient language, is all a person really needs to know and anything not found in it is "innovation" , like democracy and gender rights, is the fundamental problem. It results in an Islamic culture that isn't good for the adherents or the rest of the human family.
This has little to do with the news from the last couple of decades, nor from ignorance. It's my take on the big picture of Islam and how it relates to the modern world.
Tom

Um democracy has been a part of Islam for a long time. Apparently you were or are unaware of the "Golden Age"

Common but serious mistake right there. I do not have to do that, because it is irrelevant.

Instead, I have to establish to our mutual satisfaction that, unattainable ideals apart, the reality of having communities and even whole countries pursuing the practice of Islaam is consistently disastrous and not beneficial.

Could we truly claim that Islaam is worthy if its implementations consistently show otherwise?

(I don't think Shariah is very commendable even in the abstract, personally, but again, that is not relevant when analysing a real situation).

But you've never studied Shari'ah Law nor Islamic Jurisprudence so your opinions about Shari'ah Law are null and void. As I've mentioned before there is a reason why classes on Shari'ah Law at UCLA is an elective course for Law students. .

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I know. Having looked into the topic, well, ever since 9/11/01 I do know that it is much, much more complex that many imagine.

Indeed. I am trying to tell people but folks are so hell bent on the punishment aspect they do not understand there are other aspects as well.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Personally I find very little difference between Christians and Muslims, other than the fact that Christianity is older and has had more time to mature and mellow. A thousand years ago many Christians were just as radical and intolerant as many Muslims are today.

Actually Christianity has not matured much if that was true the KKK, Aryan Nation, Hitler, White Nationalism under the guise of Christianity would not exist. Not to mention the IRA, Templars, and the like.... During the middle ages while Christianity was in the dark ages and many Christians didn't know how to take a bath it was the North African Moors (Muslims) who taught their European counterparts how to use soap. I think the maturity growth you're referring to are the corrupt governments in the middle east, not to mention the fanatics.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Hi,
This is just to say that Shia Muslims don't believe in pre-determinism.
We believe human has free-will, although God's will has no limit..

Just try to imagine someone with an artificial hand..
He can use his hand, Yet the hand works in battery...
Once the battery is not there, the man won't be able to use his hand..

Similarly, you may want buy something for example, you have the money, but if God does not want you to buy it..you will find it out of stock..or someone will come and convince you to buy another item..

No, when I came back I argued that in Islam I did not believe humans were free in the sense of the word. In the Qur'an Allah has set decrees for humans and limitations and because of these limitations I believe we are not free. You'll find Sunni Muslims believe that we humans have freewill as well, although there are some that believe that we don't the opinions among Muslims vary. I was basing my view on some writings from the kalam.

 

[sayak83]

Four months ago - urban growth has nothing to do with tradition! It is as I claim it is.

Peace

It is as you claim it is? Duh.
If you wish to discuss Hinduism and India further, please start a new thread. Off topic here.

 

[Grandliseur]

This is just a shot in the dark for me while reading this I can understand your wariness in the context you've put it in. I've met some Muslims from different countries that acted similar to what you've described. I once dated a beautiful Egyptian Arab woman long ago but when her family knew I was black American they threatened to disown her if she continued to see me. Unfortunately from these cultures that come here, a lot of it has to do with ethnic culture not necessarily Muslim culture. You see, there are a lot of Muslims that are Muslim by ethnic culture not necessarily religiously. You see, what I mean by Muslim by ethnic culture it is something you're born in to. I work with a Muslim nurse at my facility is is quite liberal in thought. She drinks liquor, has a snapchat, goes on plenty of fish to date etc. I think the Muslims you encounter that choose not to acclimate to society are probably first generation? I mean the same is here in the States as well. Some Somalians and Nigerians are very standoffish and I've encountered some that were hostile towards me. You see, a lot of Africans think black Americans are "white washed" so they tend to stay away from us (How ironic since their skin is as brown as mine but this has to do with African Diaspora than anything). I think these particular hardline cultures are doing this isolation thing because they fear of losing their culture if they acclimate to the society they move to. I would assume many of these families are simply opportunists. I don't think this is a Muslim thing cause trust me it's happening here in the States, just go to Washington D.C. or Dearborn Michigan, you'll see.

I know what you are saying, but . .
when you have whole families from similar customs entering neighborhoods in large numbers, it is simply impossible for them not to keep their own culture alive and to function as they previously did, and in this way avoiding all interaction possible that would infringe on their lifestyle. That is just how humans are, and while it isn't an Islam thing, it is a Muslim thing in the sense that this is who they are, their culture. So, except for the fact that they have come into a functional society from which they are benefiting from its social and monetary stability, they now are a microcosm that will remain unchanged, un-integrated, and will not harmonize or maybe even contribute to building up that society.

When then you add the severe fallout from those among them who are violent refugees, raping and doing evil, this creates a bad negative impression on the natives (to use that term about native Europeans) that could turn ugly in how things are done. If you have followed the news, this is already beginning to impact laws, immigration, etc..

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What I dislike is the idea that Muhammad, a person we can't prove existed is the spokesperson for God.

If he were portrayed as a wise leader, great, we can criticize his wisdom. What I dislike is the claim that he had the authority to speak for God.

For example we could discuss the wisdom of the Burqa and Abaya. As traditional, cultural dress, ok.
I mean I could wear a kilt as a cultural statement I suppose, but it being a commandment from God causes problems for some folks.

Muhammad we can't prove existed?

Original Letters of Prophet Muhammad SAW

We cannot prove Moses was a spokesman for God either, after all clinically he could be a schizophrenic with a stuttering problem. This is where faith comes in. But among some of the aforementioned prophets there is physical evidence of Muhammad's existence.

 

[sayak83]

Muslims should follow the words of God and hence the quran proves you wrong.

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.(2:256)

1. 
   
   
   • Say: "Oh, you who disbelieve!
   • "I do not worship that which you worship,
   • "Nor do you worship That Which I worship.
   • "Nor will I worship that which you have been worshipping,
   • "Neither will you worship That Which I worship.
   • "To you your religion and to me mine." (109:1-6)

Folks in Muslim majority countries are not treating minorities well. I have shown this by quoting data in my later posts. How can quoting verses from the Quran refute this?

 

[columbus]

Muhammad we can't prove existed?

I have no doubt Muhammad existed, very much like the records describe.

But I have long understood that Muhammad was illiterate, in the technical sense of reading and writing. I couldn't find anything in the link explaining the discrepancy. Any ideas?
Tom

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What a dodge.

I read it and learned the difference. I don't understand why you posted this because it says nothing that disputes what I offered you. Fiqh does supersede Sharia law a defined by the Quran, it merely fills in the gaps with interpretations that are not explicitly outlined.

I have no idea why you responded with that. I can only assume that the tactic of offering links with no value to the discussion is designed to distract us from the reality of what most Muslims believe. That's not going to fool anyone.

All you've really done is claim that I don't understand it. Explain to me how it's okay that hundreds of millions of Muslims think people should be punished for choosing to not be Muslims anymore, as well as be punished for other offenses that should have no legal bearing.

I explained why these findings in the the survey I posted bother me about Islam. You have yet to counter it except to claim that I'm ignorant and I don't understand it.

So educate me. Is apostasy a crime in your eyes? Is it a crime according to Sharia law? Are the majority of Muslims represented in the the survey wrong, or does it sound about right to you?

For the millionth and billionth time, I'm not Muslim so I cannot comment on the legal ramifications of whether apostasy is a punishable crime because for one, I'm not an Alim or some learned person of Shari'ah Law and also I'm not a governmental official. I'm a secularist so of course in my opinion nobody should be punished for simply leaving a religion. I simply do not care what people believe in because that is not up to me to decide what is right and wrong, I can only control my own beliefs. As far as my claim that you are ignorant of Shari'ah Law yes I made that claim and stand by it as it is apparent here now. Shari'ah Law encompasses a wide range of things not just punishment as the link I provided for you stated, and the reason I additionally provided the Fiqh link is to show you that there are different schools of thought that have opinion on how the law ought to be implemented. I've considered your source but I'm also curious where these people were polled. It is easily to skew polls in favor of what you think you'll find so I'm more interested in the details of these polls besides the regions of the people they polled. What are their education levels, what is their income, what is their political status etc. these things make a difference in the opinions of people. Instead of accepting the fact that Shari'ah is more about punishment you continue to emphasize it even when the link I provided has validated what I stated, so yes you are still ignorant of Shari'ah Law.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I have no doubt Muhammad existed, very much like the records describe.

But I have long understood that Muhammad was illiterate, in the technical sense of reading and writing. I couldn't find anything in the link explaining the discrepancy. Any ideas?
Tom

Muhammad was illiterate but Moses also had a stuttering problem which is why Aaron his brother spoke on his behalf. The point is it does not negate his prophetic mission if someone helped him. Muhammad could still speak his native tongue despite illiteracy. So I'm sure (and this is an assumption on my part) he had scribes dictate his words for him.

 

[FearGod]

A claim needs to be validated by evidence in order to be accepted as something which is true, not the other way around.

A claim which is not proven can be disregarding as easily as it was to make the claim in the first place.

Of course you don't have to disregard such claims, however people are imperfect. It's really foolish to accept a claim or support a claim that you, yourself cannot prove.

So I'm not saying there is no God nor that God didn't give messengers the authority to speak for him. What I am doing is disregarding claims that are not proven as any rational person would.

The claim was validated to be true1500 years ago and the quran and major
events proves to me without any doubt that Islam is the truth, I'm speaking
about myself and what I believe and I don't care about what you think about
the prophet and Islam.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Folks in Muslim majority countries are not treating minorities well. I have shown this by quoting data in my later posts. How can quoting verses from the Quran refute this?

Sad reality of life is whenever you're a minority often times you are mistreated because...well...you're a minority with limited power.

 

[FearGod]

Folks in Muslim majority countries are not treating minorities well. I have shown this by quoting data in my later posts. How can quoting verses from the Quran refute this?

Do you judge Islam by what some Muslims do? or you judge Islam by what
the holy book says?

 

[sayak83]

Do you judge Islam by what some Muslims do? or you judge Islam by what
the holy book says?

I assess the current impact of Islam in the world by what Muslims do... or more accurately the state of society and life and freedoms in Islamic majority countries.