Why do you dislike Islam?

[Kuzcotopia]

Majority of Muslims don't live under sharia law....Then again majority of non-muslims such as yourself, don't even understand sharia law aside from what you see on the news or from conservative websites.

I'll start by highlighting a few words from my previous post.

Here, we're going to focus on the substantive issue of the negative consequences of a religious-based legal system where, for whatever reason, the majority of Muslims who want it also have immoral ideas that don't fit well in the global, 21st century community.

Did I say that the majority of Muslims are currently under Sharia law? What I said was, that the majority of Muslims want it.

Furthermore, I'm a liberal. Big time. Check out my post history in the political threads for clear evidence of this.

But all of this is beside the point. I've laid out a clear course of action you could take to deal with the realities of what Muslims actually believe about these issues.

Are you ready to talk about what most Muslims actually believe? Why do they believe in these harsh punishments that you claim are not part of Sharia law? Why do most Muslims not see the nuances in religious and secular laws that you claim are there? Are most Muslims as ignorant of these issues as you claim I am?

 

[sayak83]

Majority of Muslims don't live under sharia law....Then again majority of non-muslims such as yourself, don't even understand sharia law aside from what you see on the news or from conservative websites.

They want to. Here is evidence. And your claim is grossly misleading. Most Muslim countries have laws that source a large fraction of their laws from Sharia along with other sources.

So, stop making misleading statements.

 

[Milton Platt]

Lately I've been annoyed by some of the threads popping up using links regarding the behaviors of other Muslims from across the world or the behaviors of extremist Muslims who commit terrorism justifying their action using doctrine. So I'm curious and wanted to discuss/debate some of the personal issues some people have regarding Islam. I'm not talking about verses but what are your personal issues with Islam and why the continuing issues regarding Islam. As I've told one member, when I came back I started my disagreement with Islamic theology regarding pre-determinism. My disagreement was purely philosophical other than that I have no personal issues with Islam other than a few philosophical/theological concepts I just disagree with. So I wanted to create a thread and allow people to vent their frustrations out here and hopefully correct some errors. I also hope some RF Muslims join in and perhaps answer some issues whether theological or otherwise.

I don't see how you can have people vent/discuss their problems with Islam and not discuss the verses that cause the problems.

In a nutshell, Islamic texts clearely set out violent precepts. Sure, not all Islamists follow those precepts. So how do you walk into a room full of Islamists and pick out the handfull of terrorists?

 

[Milton Platt]

I tend to think I'm a little bit more knowledgeable than you when it comes to Islam but you can disagree but if you want to discuss/debate on what Islam means this is the thread for it. Because your presentation is quite wrong. Islam in its extreme form is about a complete devotion to God.

Nobody has an issue with their devotion to their god. Everybody has an issue with the tens of thousands of extremists who follow their book to the letter and feel it is just to blow up or behead supposed "infadels".

 

[Milton Platt]

I have trouble even spelling it.
But I need to read the Christian Bible first.if you devote enough time to it, there is hardly any time for other books.

Interesting. Bible scholars devote their lives to trying to make sense of the Bible stories snd yet they have time for other literature.

 

[Nakosis]

Doctors have scribes that dictate what such and such patient's condition is......Not stuck, where? You forget I work at a hospital.

So anybody could have written it.

BTW Scribes get it wrong all the time according to my Doctor. He has to constantly correct them.

Makes it kind of tough for Muhammad, folks could have written anything down, claim it came from Muhammad and he wouldn't have known the difference.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why were you in Islam DIR thinking of converting to Islam while knowing that some of these countries were theocratic with questionable governments? HMMMM

Pitiful, cowardly attempt to deflect. That's not a response to what I said.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't like being dishonest to myself . On our national id cards the religion is defined and mine was Islam .About 3 years ago, I decided to stop this lie and gave a letter to poulation directorate office to kindly ask for changing my religion from Islam to Atheist. It only took 5 minutes and my ID card is replaced with a new one and I am now an official atheist. When I die there will not be any religious funeral for me .

If more people dared to act like me, religion would not be this much pressurizing .

I would think the opposite would occur. If people are able to leave Islam openly, publicly and safely then that might encourage others to do so. That's not something the clerics would want to encourage.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Here lies the crux of your view is you don't care....I offered you facts and alternative views yet you reject it because you are comfortable with your bias. You don't get to dictate what such and such country ought to do.

- the ****? If we do care we're cultural imperialists and if we don't care we're ignorant? Can't win, it seems. And if giving an opinion on a subject is 'dictating' then I hope I don't see you decrying the treatment of the Rohingya in Burma because you can bet I'll be calling you out on your cultural imperialism.

Freedom of expression? Yeah and look what happened Charlottesville when a white nationalists thought it was okay to express his rage by running people over, killing one.

Do you really think it's intelligent or sensible to draw a parallel between criticising Islam and a Neo-Nazi murdering someone? Because that has to be about the ****e-est comparison I've seen in a good while.

I'm liberal as they come, but

What are the odds nothing liberal comes after this bit?

its people like you that are the problem because you want to tell the world it is wrong if their views don't align with yours. Who are you to tell governments to change their laws because you don't like them? You're a nobody in the grand scheme of things.

It was a nobody who started the campaign to emancipate black slaves. It was a bunch of un-associated nobodies who stood up and decided to campaign for women in various Western countries getting the vote. It was a nobody who decided LGBTs deserved the same rights as straight people and decided to put the work in to make that happen. It was a bunch of nobodies at the Novaya Gazeta who decided to warn the world that Ramzan Kadyrov and his Islamic allies are in the process of murdering LGBT Chechens.

Nobodies can change the world. Nobodies are the falling pebbles in the mountains that start an avalanche.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Why are you talking so much about Sharia Law again, then?

Are you blind and not reading the thread? It is called "responding."

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Pitiful, cowardly attempt to deflect. That's not a response to what I said.

It is not deflection I'm just curious....Why were you in Islam DIR talking about converting to Islam despite all the things you complained about?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Nobody has an issue with their devotion to their god. Everybody has an issue with the tens of thousands of extremists who follow their book to the letter and feel it is just to blow up or behead supposed "infadels".

I agree with you. I have a problem with extremists as well. Unfortunately that exists within Islam and it is bad and people will judge an entire faith based on the extremism of some radicals.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I don't see how you can have people vent/discuss their problems with Islam and not discuss the verses that cause the problems.

In a nutshell, Islamic texts clearely set out violent precepts. Sure, not all Islamists follow those precepts. So how do you walk into a room full of Islamists and pick out the handfull of terrorists?

The reason why people shouldn't quote versed is because I am assuming which is a shot in the dark, that many here ignorant of Islam have not studied it in depth besides picking up an English version of the Qur'an and reading it. Or going to Christian conservative blog sites, or watching news regarding terrorism. There I a heavy bias against Muslims here based on the actions of others. I can understand being marginalized because it was the same way when an African-American does something then people often cite FBI stats and say "well lacks are 13% of the population but commit 50% of the crime." So I understand being judged by others for the actions of others who look like me yet don't know me and when I explain myself people still retain their biases so yes I understand what Muslims go through.

 

[FearGod]

No, people like you havent ever been to wonderful places like Saudi Arabia. I had to stay in Jeddah for 3 horrible weeks and it was in ramadan. My palestinian brothers threatened me to complain to religious polkice when they saw me smoking and drinking water at a silent corner. If 4 of them declare that I am doing such , say hello to jail and lashes. Of course I knew how to protect myself and silence them not by sharia but jungle laws.

If we follow the sharia law then no punishment should be applied for those who chose not to fast
in ramadan, it's people mistakes and not to blame the religion for it.

Actually according to the quran people who are in travel shouldn't fast, those who are sick shouldn't
fast, the pregnant women, during the menstrual cycle, people who don't like to fast ..etc, and at the end
God says it's good for your to fast, so it's your free choice.

 

[FearGod]

I'll start by highlighting a few words from my previous post.



Did I say that the majority of Muslims are currently under Sharia law? What I said was, that the majority of Muslims want it.

Furthermore, I'm a liberal. Big time. Check out my post history in the political threads for clear evidence of this.

But all of this is beside the point. I've laid out a clear course of action you could take to deal with the realities of what Muslims actually believe about these issues.

Are you ready to talk about what most Muslims actually believe? Why do they believe in these harsh punishments that you claim are not part of Sharia law? Why do most Muslims not see the nuances in religious and secular laws that you claim are there? Are most Muslims as ignorant of these issues as you claim I am?

Harsh punishment is to prevent crimes of happening, but still clemency should be applied whenever possible.
for example Umar bin Al khatab permitted stealing due to poverty and the need for food, he cancelled the law
of chopping the hands for a reason, so don't blame religion for it.

 

[England my lionheart]

From the cradle of Islam Saudi Arabia theres so much not to like
Turkmenistan.

 

[FearGod]

From the cradle of Islam Saudi Arabia theres so much not to like
Turkmenistan.

Saudi Arabia is a thing and Islam is another thing, if I judge religion according to people's behavior
then I'll choose to be a disbeliever.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

No, people like you havent ever been to wonderful places like Saudi Arabia. I had to stay in Jeddah for 3 horrible weeks and it was in ramadan. My palestinian brothers threatened me to complain to religious polkice when they saw me smoking and drinking water at a silent corner. If 4 of them declare that I am doing such , say hello to jail and lashes. Of course I knew how to protect myself and silence them not by sharia but jungle laws.

Question...

Did you educate yourself on the laws there or did you go blindly not knowing these laws?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

blindly went . May I ask you for what I should educate myself when I go to a country for work purposes only?

Because if you're a foreigner to any land it's best to know the do's and don'ts. For example so many years ago a kid was caned in I think Malaysia for littering. Apparently Malaysia is known for having clean streets and since this kid coming from the U.S. was unaware of their laws he was caught and arrested for littering. I think it's best to know the laws of any country you're unfamiliar with.

 

[Notanumber]

Because if you're a foreigner to any land it's best to know the do's and don'ts. For example so many years ago a kid was caned in I think Malaysia for littering. Apparently Malaysia is known for having clean streets and since this kid coming from the U.S. was unaware of their laws he was caught and arrested for littering. I think it's best to know the laws of any country you're unfamiliar with.

Unless you are an Islamist that takes his own laws with him to any previously free country.