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Why does being pro-life tend to be associated with being religious?

ppp

Well-Known Member
How? This seems like a slang thing. the problem with this definition is that there's nothing in it to suggest that it pertains specifically to abortion, and only to abortion.
And yet you know it applies specifically to the position that women should be legally barred from having the ability to abort their pregnancy. This is a ridiculous quibble. You use words and phrases everyday that have specific contexts and application, that could be applied to other subjects every single day. Anti-choice does apply specifically to abortion because that is how it is used, and usage is how words work.

I would also point out that anti-abortion lobby is not pro-life in any comprehensive sense. We don't have to range afield to anything like the death penalty to see that. We can stay firmly in the realm of procreation. The majority of the people who are against women having a choice on whether to abort their pregnancies are also against funding the measures that have been shown to be most effective in reducing pregnancies, maternal mortality, infant mortality, maternal morbidity, and infant morbidity. They are also against any similar support of postnatal care, postpartum care, day care, etc. As a bizarre aside, the anti-vax movement used to be primarily a weird fringe niche in the left. Now it is a weird, large, and growing faction of the conservative anti-abortion lobby.

In short the majority of the people who identify as pro-life are not for life. They are not pro-mother, pro-child or pro-birth in any pragmatic sense. For all practical purposes that movement little nothing more than forced gestation.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
It seems like there's this perception or stereotype that being pro-life is a religious thing & I'm interested in trying to find out why this is.

I don't have specific examples, but it seems to be like a popular & standard media narrative.

There are plenty of religious folks who are for abortion rights, but I'm not sure if the notion is that those who are pro-life are just a subset of those who are religious.

I'm not religious, and lean towards being pro-life - or used to be, anyways & the reason I say this is because as a libertarian, I believe that people have the right to consume whatever they want. If a woman decides that she want to take a so-called "abortion pill", or drink some sort of herbal concoction that induces miscarriages, that shouldn't be a crime.

I used to take a radical pro-life position of being opposed to any intentional harm to an unborn child, whether it's through an abortion procedure at a facility involving an abortionist, or the so-called "abortion pill." I have to admit this is a stance I took from when I used to be religious, so perhaps there is some sort of association in a practical sense.

However, I don't think my change in position has anything to do with my move away from being religious; I changed my position because of a self-evaluation as a libertarian regarding my adherence to libertarian principles.

I don't take the position that life begins at conception; life began millions of years ago and has been an ongoing, continuous process. What does happen at conception is simply a new generation of life.

An abortion involves 2 things, not just one - termination of a pregnancy and termination of the life of the unborn child. If the goal of an abortion were to terminate a pregnancy, for whatever reason, and not to slaughter the unborn child (by removing it without harming it and placing it in an incubator, or perhaps transplanting it in a surrogate mother in a late part of fetal stage (not that the technology exists, yet - I'm just being hypothetical, here), then I wouldn't have a problem with it. It would a win-win situation, except for those who have some sort of bloodlust obsession with slaughtering unborn children & I don't care if they don't get their way.

When a pregnant woman takes the so-called "abortion pill," I don't see the difference between ending a pregnancy this way, and any other miscarriage. To me that's just another miscarriage. One might want to argue that the difference is that they know what the effect will be, so it's intentional. So what if it's intentional? How can it be determined when any miscarriage is the result of an intentional act or not? Who decides that?

To me, the libertarian principle that a person has the right to consume whatever they want makes it irrelevant whether or not there's any intent involved.

Another difference between consuming something that can or does induce a miscarriage and going to a facility to get an abortion is that there's a separate actor involved in an abortion procedure. In the case of a miscarriage, that's actually the mother's body that jettisons the fetus, regardless of whether or not the mother wishes to have a miscarriage. On the other hand, the abortionist is using tools and equipment to actively destroy and remove the fetus.

Anyhow, the reason I went through this is because if being pro-life only has to do with being religious, then it begs the question regarding why we have laws against murder and manslaughter (of adults, or anyone after they're born); do these laws exist only because religious folks are opposed to murder & manslaughter, and they created them?

If someone were to say "yes, and that's also a reason for repealing such laws along with laws banning abortion," then at least they'd be consistent; I think people would quickly realize, though, that there's a big problem with doing that.

Bottom line: is being against killing innocent human beings only a religious stance? To me, the answer is no.
Ever noticed...
People who are against abortion are for the death penalty
and
People who are for abortion are against the death penalty
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
It seems like there's this perception or stereotype that being pro-life is a religious thing & I'm interested in trying to find out why this is.

I don't have specific examples, but it seems to be like a popular & standard media narrative.

There are plenty of religious folks who are for abortion rights, but I'm not sure if the notion is that those who are pro-life are just a subset of those who are religious.

I'm not religious, and lean towards being pro-life - or used to be, anyways & the reason I say this is because as a libertarian, I believe that people have the right to consume whatever they want. If a woman decides that she want to take a so-called "abortion pill", or drink some sort of herbal concoction that induces miscarriages, that shouldn't be a crime.

I used to take a radical pro-life position of being opposed to any intentional harm to an unborn child, whether it's through an abortion procedure at a facility involving an abortionist, or the so-called "abortion pill." I have to admit this is a stance I took from when I used to be religious, so perhaps there is some sort of association in a practical sense.

However, I don't think my change in position has anything to do with my move away from being religious; I changed my position because of a self-evaluation as a libertarian regarding my adherence to libertarian principles.

I don't take the position that life begins at conception; life began millions of years ago and has been an ongoing, continuous process. What does happen at conception is simply a new generation of life.

An abortion involves 2 things, not just one - termination of a pregnancy and termination of the life of the unborn child. If the goal of an abortion were to terminate a pregnancy, for whatever reason, and not to slaughter the unborn child (by removing it without harming it and placing it in an incubator, or perhaps transplanting it in a surrogate mother in a late part of fetal stage (not that the technology exists, yet - I'm just being hypothetical, here), then I wouldn't have a problem with it. It would a win-win situation, except for those who have some sort of bloodlust obsession with slaughtering unborn children & I don't care if they don't get their way.

When a pregnant woman takes the so-called "abortion pill," I don't see the difference between ending a pregnancy this way, and any other miscarriage. To me that's just another miscarriage. One might want to argue that the difference is that they know what the effect will be, so it's intentional. So what if it's intentional? How can it be determined when any miscarriage is the result of an intentional act or not? Who decides that?

To me, the libertarian principle that a person has the right to consume whatever they want makes it irrelevant whether or not there's any intent involved.

Another difference between consuming something that can or does induce a miscarriage and going to a facility to get an abortion is that there's a separate actor involved in an abortion procedure. In the case of a miscarriage, that's actually the mother's body that jettisons the fetus, regardless of whether or not the mother wishes to have a miscarriage. On the other hand, the abortionist is using tools and equipment to actively destroy and remove the fetus.

Anyhow, the reason I went through this is because if being pro-life only has to do with being religious, then it begs the question regarding why we have laws against murder and manslaughter (of adults, or anyone after they're born); do these laws exist only because religious folks are opposed to murder & manslaughter, and they created them?

If someone were to say "yes, and that's also a reason for repealing such laws along with laws banning abortion," then at least they'd be consistent; I think people would quickly realize, though, that there's a big problem with doing that.

Bottom line: is being against killing innocent human beings only a religious stance? To me, the answer is no.
Being "pro-life" is not as simple as just saying it. Many who call themselves "pro-life" because they don't like abortion are perfectly content to allow the execution of criminals, for example. If that seems like a contradiction, it is. (Oh, I know the arguments about "they brought it on themselves," but I am also aware that human justice is never perfect, and many are convicted of crimes they didn't commit. To execute a person who is in fact innocent then seems to me to be judicial murder.)

I believe I am pro-life: I am certainly opposed to capital punishment, and I've said many times that I don't like abortion -- most especially I don't like abortion used as an alternative to contraception, when contraception is so easy today. But even if everybody was practicing contraception, there are still going to be unwanted pregnancies, and there is the question of whether humans have sovereignty over their own bodies. My attitude to that is that yes, our bodies are ours. I say that even when people are ingesting things that are bad for them, like alcohol and various recreational drugs.

So this presents a very real problem: if a woman is permitted to control her own body, does that not include her sexual faculty? To me, the answer is "of course." So I have to give way, and even if I don't like abortion, permit her to do what she thinks is best for her. In my view, a fetus is a potential human (with no guarantee of surviving) but not yet "a baby."

Pro-lifers in this sense come down on the other side -- that at the moment of fertilization, an ovum becomes "a baby," usually assumed to possess "a soul" (whatever that is), and therefore has an absolute right to life. As I said in the last paragraph, however, there is no guarantee that right can come to fruition. Far more pregnancies abort naturally than most people assume.

Now, as I said, I am pro-life but not in the least religious. My guiding light is my reason. It may not always be correct, but it's all I've got. Many religious people are also pro-life, and some of those (like Joe Biden) fall back, not on their faith but their reason, like me, to determine that even though pro-life, they have to let the woman decide. On the other hand, those people of faith who fall back only on their religion and its dogmas, are at an impasse. I'm sure many don't want to see a woman suffer, or a little girl who has been raped have to give birth to her rapists child, but their dogma allows them no "out" for the sake of that woman or girl.

Religion, somewhat paradoxically, is often less forgiving than than reason. And that is due to dogma, any belief held unquestioningly and with undefended certainty
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Because they tend to focus on specific interpretations of a few verses, at the expense of others, without taking context into it.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Screaming about something the most doesn't correspond to dominant representation.
The polls show the dominant opposition to all or most abortions is directly related to religious affiliation:,

Views on abortion by religious affiliation, 2024​

About three-quarters of White evangelical Protestants (73%) think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. By contrast, 86% of religiously unaffiliated Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, as do 71% of Black Protestants, 64% of White nonevangelical Protestants and 59% of Catholics.

See reference for further details.
 
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