Because he was elected in a democratic election. Now, perhaps you'd like democracy to go away so such horrors can't happen anymore, and return to primogeniture?
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Why does Donald Trump hold such power over the Republican Party?
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
So you, too, don't believe in elections? Well, I guess it's time America tossed the Constitution.
Maninthemiddle
Active Member
What I would like is a Democracy that is transparent regarding the parties leaders so people are not ignorant of a leaders shortcomings and dont vote for someone who is completely incapable of doing what he was democratically elected to do.
Maninthemiddle
Active Member
What I would like is a Democracy that is transparent regarding the parties leaders so people are not ignorant of a leaders shortcomings and dont vote for someone who is completely incapable of doing what he was democratically elected to do.
What do you mean I don't believe in elections? I'm not questioning if he was legitimately elected, I'm explaining how that could happen.
"Worship of the state" offers no such explanation. In the context of electing Joe Biden (or Joe Schmoe) to public office, it is meaningless.
Not at all. Indeed the party basically said "you elect who we tell you to or the devil will ruin America." Notice it could be either party.
I personally have the same scope. He actually does not come across as an authority figure.
Worship? That term is a monstrosity in itself.
At this point Mickey Mouse would be better candidate than any that I see.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Reverse racism? LOL
I haven't heard that silly phrase in a while.
It's almost as nutty as claiming a person is racist just to be white.
That idea is just sick in the head no matter which person wrote which book.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
You're "fed the sandwich" by how the government affects your life, regardless if you vote or not.
There are campaign finance laws that require disclosures. George Santos is an example of a person who did not think he would get caught committing fraud as discovered in his disclosures. One thing the USA election system needs is more transparency on donations, including money to political action committees. there is a lot of dark money that seems to being coming from very wealthy people seeking to influence government and judicial officials. To my mind this liberal interpretation of freedom of speech by conservative justices in Citizens United is a huge disservice to democracy. It seems to be a form of bribery to allow so much dark money to influence elected officials. They are elected to manage the communities, states, and federal governments for the sake of all citizens, not just the wealthy. The USA needs serious refom in the election cycle. Way too much money, and way too long. Streamlining the process will help reduce the need to raise money and beg for wealthy donors, and the sharing of campaign money will help candidates state their views and what they offer. It also needs to be easier to vote as more will participate.
The head of the FBI, a Trump appointee, said it was a secure election. Bill Barr, Trump's former AG said it was secure and fair. All election officials of all 50 states said there was very little fraud, and what there was was not significant. Trump and dozens of other people have been indicted for election fraud that failed, and these people are in the process of legal accountability, so the fraud failed.
So what is it you have questions about? The biggest case of fraud failed, and that was to help Trump who lost.
How is anything you have to offer as to "how that could happen" mean a damn thing? Do we take your assessment and views seriously when you refer to government as evil?
This whole notion of "government being evil" is a direct offshoot of Reagan's "government IS the problem" comment. Let's note he contributed to government being a "problem" with his tax cuts and excessive spending. Gingrich became speaker of the House in the mid 90's and he futher pushed the idea of government bein g a problem by not cooperating with democrats, and imveaching Clinton over rather non-government reasons. This trend of republican anti-government rhetoric evolved to the tea party, and then to MAGA. MAGA led to the Jan 6 attack on the Capitol. Was that the high water mark, or is Trump's base going to organize and attack America again as he faces more legal jeopardy and accountability? Trump and his people are a domestic threat. And he still holds influence over republicans. That means only democrats can be trusted to defend democracy in 2024, like it or not.
So I wouldn't say government is evil, rather that many public servants are expoiting the voter attitudes to divide them as a way to be poiltical. This has been largely republicans who have enjoyed creating enemies of the state to whip up fervor and devotion. This is much the same way salesmen make sales using emotional strategies. Doing this in policitics has led to conservative voters being more manipulated emotionally, and less informed via the internet and far right media. The left has been guilty of similar tactics, but if we compare both parties side by side the republicans are less tolerant and more restrictive, like being anti-LGTBQ, and less access to voting.
Yazata
Active Member
"Why Does Donald Trump Hold Such Power Over the Republican Party?" As is so often the case, the subject line in this thread presents a false premise.
I voted for Trump in 2016 and in 2020, and if he is the Republican candidate in 2024 I will almost certainly vote for him again.
The reason has nothing to do with Trump holding some kind of strange power over me. I am willing to vote for him because I agree with most of his positions and with what he stands for. I believe that the same is true of most of my fellow MAGA voters. The reason why he has such a powerful influence over the Republican party is because the majority of Republican voters seem to feel the same way. That's how Democracy works.
I basically have four criteria for selecting a candidate:
1. First and most importantly Issues - Do I agree with the candidate on the issues? I rarely will agree with a candidate on everything, but do I agree on a majority of the issues of most importance to me? Trump does very well in that regard. So do several of the other Republican candidates. DeSantis is very good on the issues. Ramaswamy talks a great game.
2. Second and almost as important, effectiveness - The candidate must be able to make as much of his/her agenda into reality as possible. Trump had trouble with this during his first term and ended up with deep-state tire tracks all over him. A whole succession of bad appointments doomed his presidency almost before it started. He was never able to exert any real power over the Executive Branch departments that were supposedly under the President's charge. Some of them behaved in an outright seditious manner, declaring themselves "the Resistance" and determined to ruin his Presidency.
I personally think that Ron DeSantis is probably best in this regard. He has plenty of experience successfully running a huge government bureaucracy, the Florida State government. If elected President he would be able to bring his Florida people to Washington DC to head up government departments there. I believe that he would be better able than Trump to deal with outright insubordination.
Given the widespread weaponization of federal agencies against political opponents, especially the "Justice" department (which seemingly serves as the protection/enforcement arm of the democratic party) and the FBI (once the world's gold-standard in law enforcement, now increasingly indistinguishable from Putin's FSB) this is perhaps most important to the future of American Democracy and Liberty. (Which I'm not convinced will survive.) I'm just not convinced that Donald Trump is the one to fight this neccessary battle.
3. Third, personal qualities other than effectiveness. How well do I think he would perform in a crisis? Again, I have more confidence in DeSantis than in Trump in this regard.
4. Fourth and least important to me, do I like the person? Advantage DeSantis here too. He seems cool, measured and professional. Trump comes across as a bit of a braggart and perhaps an a**hole. (I've never met him and don't know him personally.) I get the impression that some voters, especially younger female voters, probably rank #4 (likeability) as most important, which probably hurts Trump.
So... I intend to vote for DeSantis in the Republican primary. But I do expect Trump to win the nomination and I would certainly vote for him over any democrat in the general election. I can't think of any democrat that doesn't fail miserably on my first two most important criteria.
I voted for Trump in 2016 and in 2020, and if he is the Republican candidate in 2024 I will almost certainly vote for him again.
The reason has nothing to do with Trump holding some kind of strange power over me. I am willing to vote for him because I agree with most of his positions and with what he stands for. I believe that the same is true of most of my fellow MAGA voters. The reason why he has such a powerful influence over the Republican party is because the majority of Republican voters seem to feel the same way. That's how Democracy works.
I basically have four criteria for selecting a candidate:
1. First and most importantly Issues - Do I agree with the candidate on the issues? I rarely will agree with a candidate on everything, but do I agree on a majority of the issues of most importance to me? Trump does very well in that regard. So do several of the other Republican candidates. DeSantis is very good on the issues. Ramaswamy talks a great game.
2. Second and almost as important, effectiveness - The candidate must be able to make as much of his/her agenda into reality as possible. Trump had trouble with this during his first term and ended up with deep-state tire tracks all over him. A whole succession of bad appointments doomed his presidency almost before it started. He was never able to exert any real power over the Executive Branch departments that were supposedly under the President's charge. Some of them behaved in an outright seditious manner, declaring themselves "the Resistance" and determined to ruin his Presidency.
I personally think that Ron DeSantis is probably best in this regard. He has plenty of experience successfully running a huge government bureaucracy, the Florida State government. If elected President he would be able to bring his Florida people to Washington DC to head up government departments there. I believe that he would be better able than Trump to deal with outright insubordination.
Given the widespread weaponization of federal agencies against political opponents, especially the "Justice" department (which seemingly serves as the protection/enforcement arm of the democratic party) and the FBI (once the world's gold-standard in law enforcement, now increasingly indistinguishable from Putin's FSB) this is perhaps most important to the future of American Democracy and Liberty. (Which I'm not convinced will survive.) I'm just not convinced that Donald Trump is the one to fight this neccessary battle.
3. Third, personal qualities other than effectiveness. How well do I think he would perform in a crisis? Again, I have more confidence in DeSantis than in Trump in this regard.
4. Fourth and least important to me, do I like the person? Advantage DeSantis here too. He seems cool, measured and professional. Trump comes across as a bit of a braggart and perhaps an a**hole. (I've never met him and don't know him personally.) I get the impression that some voters, especially younger female voters, probably rank #4 (likeability) as most important, which probably hurts Trump.
So... I intend to vote for DeSantis in the Republican primary. But I do expect Trump to win the nomination and I would certainly vote for him over any democrat in the general election. I can't think of any democrat that doesn't fail miserably on my first two most important criteria.
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Best bet
My view has been that ANYONE voting for trump should lose their right to vote............... period!
You're right it is a silly phrase, as racism is racism.
I don't think your analogy works. Eating the sandwich is voting, and you certainly don't have to do so.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I literally just conceded it is a bad word. It's just racism against a different race. Only someone drinking political kool-aid can think racism is only bad depending on what race its against.