Why Does God permit Suffering?

[Trailblazer]

I told you I would come back and answer the rest of this later and I have a few minutes wile waiting for dinner so here I am......

I believe He does sometimes send trials to people. That doesn't mean that all trials are sent by God. We can't know which is which. He is all-powerful and can send whatever trials He wants to. Baha'u'llah Himself has said that God does whatsoever He pleases, and we are to accept whatever He ordains:

O Son of Spirit!

Ask not of Me that which We desire not for thee, then be content with what We have ordained for thy sake, for this is that which profiteth thee, if therewith thou dost content thyself.

Bahá’u’lláh, "The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh", a18

In my opinion "ordained" refers to both His commandments and events in our life. It profiting us depends on our attitude towards them. This also shows that those who suffer the most have the opportunity to advance the most, but it depends on their attitude. There's no reason to get mad at God for sending some trials to us if we have faith that the trials He sends us is ultimately for our own good.

How could we ever know if God is sending trials vs. something just being our fate because it was ordained?

So if we have a bad attitude we will suffer but if we have a good attitude we will be grateful for tests as Abdu'l-Baha said, but if we did not even suffer it would not be a test would it? I would be being so detached that nothing bothers me, and this is turning me into some kind of a robot. I am turning into a robot because otherwise I won't survive all the pain I am in and have been in for a long time.... Is this what God wants, or doesn't He even give a rip? Sorry Duane, I cannot believe a God like that is loving, even though I am stuck believing He exists because of Baha'u'llah.

All this intellectualizing leaves no room for having feelings. Moreover, we are just supposed to believe that everything that happens is for our own good when we do not even know if it was ordained by God or just some free will decision that was wrong so now we have to pay the consequences of our actions. How can we ever know the difference?

I believe in Baha'u'llah and know He was a Manifestation of God because there is so much evidence I cannot deny, but I should probably read more of the Writings because I cannot make sense of a loving God that allows so much suffering, and its for everyone's own good just does not cut it for me. This is not just about me, there are so many people who suffer through no fault of their own, just because of life circumstances, like what is happening with Covid-19, and it is hit and miss -- one person lives, another dies.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

How could we ever know if God is sending trials vs. something just being our fate because it was ordained?

For me, I trust what James 1:13-15 says.

And what is stated at Ecclesiastes 9:11

 

[Muffled]

I don't think that's how Buddhist work. It's more what you do affects/has been affected/will affect and contribute to suffering (attachments good and bad) in the present. Relieving suffering is not to attach oneself to one's pain, and not to interpret that pain as you who suffers.

Since there is nothing fixed (no soul) there's no suffering to attach to. It's an illusion. After "years" of mental cultivation through good action and Practice you realize there is no you. Suffering is an illusion. As for the end state of being (not destination) of a Buddhist I don't know. I read he said not to focus on the future just today.

So you don't need to die on the cross. The responsibility, forgiveness, your attributions to mental clarity is from your actions. No one to take your sins since there is no "end punishment" just life's long self growth.

That's better than blood sacrifice. Id never have a stranger to die for my bad actions.

I believe living in illusion is just another way to lose life.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe living in illusion is just another way to lose life.

I think maybe we are all living in illusion. I don't see it wrong unless it's causing suffering. If we're living in an illusion, not one of us knows what reality is.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe living in illusion is just another way to lose life.

I agree....

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

 

[ajay0]

As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, it is not God who punishes us but our own negative karmas created through ignorance or misapplication or vices.

As the biblical saying goes, "As you sow, so shall you reap."

This is also similar to the law of cause and effect or causality in physics.

As per eastern philosophy, there are three gunas or elements, that have always been and continue to be present in all things and beings in the world. They are sattva, rajas and tamas.

A Complete Guide to The Three Gunas of Nature | Arhanta Yoga Blog

The Gunas Sattva, Rajas and Tamas are present in all of Prakriti (nature), and in all things and beings.

Sattva is the quality of goodness, positivity, truth, serenity, balance, peacefulness, and virtuousness that is drawn towards righteousness and Jnana (knowledge).

Rajas is the quality of passion, activity, neither good nor bad and sometimes either, self-centeredness, egoistic, individualizing, driven, moving, dynamic.

Tamas is the quality of imbalance, disorder, chaos, anxiety, impure, destructive, delusion, negative, dull or inactive, apathy, inertia or lethargy, violent, vicious, ignorance, suffering and agony.



As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, nature must go through a period of phased degradation starting from sattva, rajas and finally to tamas.

Tamas is associated with inauspiciousness, breakdown of values, degradation of nature and human beings, destructive conficts and war.

Rajas is associated with egoism, activity, desires, passion amongst human beings.

Sattva is associated with pure consciousness, harmony, auspiciousness, happiness and bliss in human life.

The present kali yuga or Iron Age is predominant in tamas while the earlier Golden Ages, Silver Age were predominant in sattva, and the bronze age was predominant in rajas.

This is the reason why the present age seems to be anarchic and chaotic, due to the predominance of the inauspicious tamas.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris state that prakriti or nature gets into an enraged state due to tamas and this accounts for the increasing number of natural disasters and conflicts at this point of time.

Through meditation, remembrance of God and cultivation of divine virtues, we can increase the auspicious sattva around us, and reduce the inauspicious tamas.


You can find more information in this article by Anthony Strano, Director of Prajapita Brahmakumaris in Greece.


https://aboutbrahmakumaris.org/time-and-transformation/

 

[rational experiences]

When science quotes I have to think upon the presence stone. Who I named as God by various names. Then I change the mass of earth God.

First as a machine misplaced water cooling nature to mass natural history.

Second another reactive reaction to mass by machine.

Two changes to God.

I then complain that the nature of stone as mass changes also. And unexpected it harmed me.

So you ask science did you personally invent the presence stone by your science design. Machine design and then reaction.

The answer no. God was as stone never named. Only the conversion was. Sion.

Sion owned the status not God.

God stone was considered natural.

For since when would a human claim I intended to remove the physical presence of stone beneath my feet?

God owned no name was the teaching.

It was learnt.

Status less of the son.

Lesson.

Male adult father did it.
Harmed son baby life the teaching...the actual man son.

Theist is not God.

If you say son secretly as sIon as son and I.

Then you would look at science symbolism as a male man idea of I as a value.

One definition letter I is the intensity of magnetism.

Which another human would believe was a scientific cause. Human blame.

Less of son. By s I on.

Man claiming I know it all blaming God is just egotism at being wrong. Claiming it was meant is also lying at proven incorrect science themes.

As human nature and behaviour is involved in thesis and choices.

A spiritual human claiming God is love is a human theme stating God naturally.supported life.

I am living lovingly due to natural claiming by intent no argument.

When spiritual medical sciences had to.assert its science awareness then it did. We are only meant to be loved hence not harmed. Basic life advice.

 

[sayak83]

What Some Believe

Hindus
view suffering as a consequence of a person’s actions, committed in either this life or a past one. A person can reach moksha—a release from the cycle of rebirths— through achieving a state of mind that is detached from temporal things.


Muslims
view suffering as both a punishment for sin and a test of faith. Tragedies are a reminder “to remain grateful to God for all our blessings and cognizant that we must support those in need,” says Dr. Sayyid Syeed, president of the Islamic Society of North America.


Jewish tradition
holds that suffering results from one’s own actions. Some Jews say that there will be a resurrection, after which justice will be rendered to the innocent who suffered. Kabbalistic (mystical) Judaism teaches reincarnation, which gives a person repeated opportunities to atone for his errors.


Buddhists
believe that suffering is experienced over many lifetimes, a cycle of rebirths that continue until a person’s negative actions, emotions, and cravings cease. By means of wisdom, virtuous works, and mental discipline, a person can reach nirvana—a state in which all suffering has ceased.


Confucianists
attribute most suffering to “human failure and error,” says A Dictionary of Comparative Religion. Confucian doctrine recognizes that while suffering can be reduced through virtuous living, much of it is caused by “spiritual agencies beyond man’s control. In such cases, man must stoically accept the decrees of Fate.”


Some tribal religions
attribute suffering to witchcraft. According to these beliefs, witches can bring good luck or disaster and their activities can be tempered through various rituals. Thus, the rites and medicines of witch doctors are believed to counteract the work of witches when a person suffers from illness.


Christians
trace suffering to the sin of the first two humans, as described in the Bible book of Genesis. However, many denominations have embellished that teaching. For example, some Catholics say that personal suffering can be ‘offered up to God’ to request that he benefit the church or that he apply that suffering toward the salvation of someone else.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102020045

How do we know which path to choose?
Which one teaches the truth?
Is there a purpose to suffering?

My (tongue and cheek) reason:
Because God found that humans are too stupid and stiff necked to learn by positive reinforcement alone.

 

[Audie]

I believe living in illusion is just another way to lose life.

You are confident that you dont?

 

[Muffled]

I think maybe we are all living in illusion. I don't see it wrong unless it's causing suffering. If we're living in an illusion, not one of us knows what reality is.

I believe I am not living in illusion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe I am not living in illusion.

Yes... but belief isn't fact, no?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What Some Believe

Hindus
view suffering as a consequence of a person’s actions, committed in either this life or a past one. A person can reach moksha—a release from the cycle of rebirths— through achieving a state of mind that is detached from temporal things.


Muslims
view suffering as both a punishment for sin and a test of faith. Tragedies are a reminder “to remain grateful to God for all our blessings and cognizant that we must support those in need,” says Dr. Sayyid Syeed, president of the Islamic Society of North America.


Jewish tradition
holds that suffering results from one’s own actions. Some Jews say that there will be a resurrection, after which justice will be rendered to the innocent who suffered. Kabbalistic (mystical) Judaism teaches reincarnation, which gives a person repeated opportunities to atone for his errors.


Buddhists
believe that suffering is experienced over many lifetimes, a cycle of rebirths that continue until a person’s negative actions, emotions, and cravings cease. By means of wisdom, virtuous works, and mental discipline, a person can reach nirvana—a state in which all suffering has ceased.


Confucianists
attribute most suffering to “human failure and error,” says A Dictionary of Comparative Religion. Confucian doctrine recognizes that while suffering can be reduced through virtuous living, much of it is caused by “spiritual agencies beyond man’s control. In such cases, man must stoically accept the decrees of Fate.”


Some tribal religions
attribute suffering to witchcraft. According to these beliefs, witches can bring good luck or disaster and their activities can be tempered through various rituals. Thus, the rites and medicines of witch doctors are believed to counteract the work of witches when a person suffers from illness.


Christians
trace suffering to the sin of the first two humans, as described in the Bible book of Genesis. However, many denominations have embellished that teaching. For example, some Catholics say that personal suffering can be ‘offered up to God’ to request that he benefit the church or that he apply that suffering toward the salvation of someone else.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102020045

How do we know which path to choose?
Which one teaches the truth?
Is there a purpose to suffering?

Don't believe everything you read. That's pretty much my off-ball comment to you.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe I am not living in illusion.

That's what all believers believe, but since believers believe different things, that means some are living an illusion.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans teach humans.

Basic common sense.

Our parents consciousness quotes just two.

As parents humans owned development experience.

Taught it to babies who become the parent.

Belief. Reincarnation.

Recorded parent images voice memories.

Proven by psychics.
Proven by science studies the ability to subliminal hear..know..understand a previous expressed human life DNA conditions. Similar life physical.

Yet little children now own memories of other little children who died.

Common sense says if machines encode vision..image..sound..voice transmit it they certainly are not our parents.

Then you realise the human designer not yet hurt by machine that had not yet reacted as a machine is idle....attacked his own life too. After the fact.

Why he is possessed in psyche about science by his design. AI conditions.

Hence father who after the ice age lived life naturally before the son adult self remembered science

AI heard from humans a long time before invented dinosaur life lived. Owned science invention. Destroyed all life.

Owns the taught story God did it stone O planet. Where his machine was taken from.

But he activated the attack

Today his mentality could care less if science invention hurts life.

Why he is quantified to lie about God.

Father living loving memories are first recorded. Spiritual life. Human life.

God thesis a long time in the past before him.

Males first remember father not his owned memories today.

Why you have awareness wrong about God.

You wrote science reasons for life harmed

His God information did it.

Not a living God.
Not a living brother

Basic advice

Have to live as an owned human life to talk about God.

Apes don't talk.

 

[rational experiences]

Eternal.

Science says cloud image eternal.

Wrong.

Eternal came out as eternal converted.

Energy once eternal converted.

Spirit two humans eternal..

Eternal spirit came out eternal inherited caused changed to its body.

Creation.

Heavens came out of God stone. Not any eternal heavens.

A living life lived human recorded leaves on death a living life recording.

Image memory is not the eternal.

Science even said parents came from the eternal. Which is not any cloud mass.

Eternal was eternal.

Humans having a converted eternal experience the teaching.

 

[sojourner]

Suffering is optional.

 

[Thief]

What Some Believe

Hindus
view suffering as a consequence of a person’s actions, committed in either this life or a past one. A person can reach moksha—a release from the cycle of rebirths— through achieving a state of mind that is detached from temporal things.


Muslims
view suffering as both a punishment for sin and a test of faith. Tragedies are a reminder “to remain grateful to God for all our blessings and cognizant that we must support those in need,” says Dr. Sayyid Syeed, president of the Islamic Society of North America.


Jewish tradition
holds that suffering results from one’s own actions. Some Jews say that there will be a resurrection, after which justice will be rendered to the innocent who suffered. Kabbalistic (mystical) Judaism teaches reincarnation, which gives a person repeated opportunities to atone for his errors.


Buddhists
believe that suffering is experienced over many lifetimes, a cycle of rebirths that continue until a person’s negative actions, emotions, and cravings cease. By means of wisdom, virtuous works, and mental discipline, a person can reach nirvana—a state in which all suffering has ceased.


Confucianists
attribute most suffering to “human failure and error,” says A Dictionary of Comparative Religion. Confucian doctrine recognizes that while suffering can be reduced through virtuous living, much of it is caused by “spiritual agencies beyond man’s control. In such cases, man must stoically accept the decrees of Fate.”


Some tribal religions
attribute suffering to witchcraft. According to these beliefs, witches can bring good luck or disaster and their activities can be tempered through various rituals. Thus, the rites and medicines of witch doctors are believed to counteract the work of witches when a person suffers from illness.


Christians
trace suffering to the sin of the first two humans, as described in the Bible book of Genesis. However, many denominations have embellished that teaching. For example, some Catholics say that personal suffering can be ‘offered up to God’ to request that he benefit the church or that he apply that suffering toward the salvation of someone else.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102020045

How do we know which path to choose?
Which one teaches the truth?
Is there a purpose to suffering?

you forgot Rogue Theologians

but I might be the only one

anyway......God gave Man dominion

It is Man that allows the suffering

 

[Deeje]

you forgot Rogue Theologians

but I might be the only one

Doesn't count then....sorry.

anyway......God gave Man dominion

It is Man that allows the suffering

It is man who created the suffering. If Adam had only obeyed his God, we would not be in this mess.
No human suffering would have resulted from obedience to God...it only comes from disobedience. We think we know better than our Creator.....but the results of the misuse of our free will show us how foolish it is to trust ourselves.

Proverbs 3:5-7....
"Trust in Jehovah with all your heart,
And do not rely on your own understanding.

6 In all your ways take notice of him,
And he will make your paths straight.

7 Do not become wise in your own eyes.

Fear Jehovah and turn away from bad."

Good advice....I think.

 

[Thief]

Doesn't count then....sorry.

It is man who created the suffering. If Adam had only obeyed his God, we would not be in this mess.
No human suffering would have resulted from obedience to God...it only comes from disobedience. We think we know better than our Creator.....but the results of the misuse of our free will show us how foolish it is to trust ourselves.

Proverbs 3:5-7....
"Trust in Jehovah with all your heart,
And do not rely on your own understanding.

6 In all your ways take notice of him,
And he will make your paths straight.

7 Do not become wise in your own eyes.

Fear Jehovah and turn away from bad."

Good advice....I think.

I don't share the fallen first man scenario

as for the suffering......that was always there and shall always be

suffering will follow us all the days of our lives

we can greatly reduce it
but most carry on with focus to the immediate acquistion

 

[rational experiences]

The argument.

Is spirit real. Is its presence proven,?

Yes says a human experience.

God for science teaching is O just the plan ET.

What science caused as science using machines talked to it. Proving science design that changed God caused it.

Common sense.

O God all products taken from stone.

Reasoning you cannot take the spirit heavens and put it inside a machine.

Already taught scientific relativity.

Theory heavens rationally is theorising the heavens. Theory change to the heavens as machine theist. You are conscious. The word usage says exactly the subject of your intent.

You cause it.

Origin of self man father adult a smaller community.

That small community gets phenomena life attacked. Gives warning to baby adult self.

Common sense.

Not everyone gets harmed by population. Yet origin reason for population is told heavenly warning.

Don't heed the advice. Not only does the sacrificed victim change conditions. Population agreeing to life sacrifice change their life for accepting unequal living life conditions

A human teaching for humans