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Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Perditus said:
Are you daft? This is hell.
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Yes, it can be, but one big difference is that it isn't eternal; another is it doesn't exist (options being paradise or oblivion); and the greatest blessing about a hereafter, if it exists, is that dark souls will always choose oblivion over their wretched self-made hell--thus sparing themselves...and the rest of us. Think about it.
 
Cateau

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
Perditus said:
Seems people here have no clue about treatment-resistant depression.
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The only way to win it is to out live it. It'll dissipate. The 5 Ws (who, what, when, where, why) are only known to you however but if you manage to have one good moment a day and think on it, you can't go wrong (Philippians 4:8)....neither with music therapy.
 
D

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Perditus said:
Well, it's nice to hear someone has no problems. You are the minority in this world.
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Did I say I don't have any problems? I don't remember saying that!

I have arthritis in almost every joint in my body, but my hips are the worst, they are collapsed, bone on bone. I can't bend down to put my socks on or tie my shoes. I haven't touched anything below my knees in 3 years, without a long back scratcher. I use long BBQ tongs to put my socks on, and I'm only 55. I can't sit for any length of time, I can't stand for any length of time, so I'm constantly up and down. The pain is very great, 24/7. I've been to a few doctors, they say I have the hips of an 80 year old and tell me if I can handle the pain I should wait at least 10 years to have them replaced, or I will have to have them replaced again, in 10 years, so I wait. I can't go nowhere by myself, because if I fall, I might not get back up. If I drop something, I can't pick it up unless I get down on the floor.

So yeah, I know a little about problems! But still, I'm breathing and alive, which means, God's not through with me yet!
 
Perditus

Perditus

へびつかい座
Cateau said:
The only way to win it is to out live it. It'll dissipate. The 5 Ws (who, what, when, where, why) are only known to you however but if you manage to have one good moment a day and think on it, you can't go wrong (Philippians 4:8)....neither with music therapy.
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This kind of ignorance disturbs and offends me.

You don't know your butt from a gopher hole when it comes to mental illness.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Serenity7855 said:
If your God exists then why does He allow children to starve and pedophiles to exist. It is one of the most frequently asked questions of atheists and one that they think dismisses the existence of God. On another thread and another topic I recieved this post that caused me to think that maybe it is not something that Christians know or believe. Maybe it was lost with the creeds?



I believe that the answer is so obvious that we do not consider it. You first have to consider why you are here, what is this life all about and what happens to us when it is all over? Why are we here?
Coming here allows you to:
  • Receive a physical body.
  • Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
  • Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
  • Form family relationships that may become eternal.
  • To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.
Your life didn’t begin at birth and it won’t end at death. Before you came to earth, your spirit lived with Heavenly Father who created you. You knew Him, and He knew and loved you. It was a happy time during which you were taught God’s plan of happiness and the path to true joy.

One thing that makes this life so hard sometimes is that we’re out of God’s physical presence. Not only that, but we can’t remember our pre-earth life which means we have to operate by faith rather than sight. God didn’t say it would be easy, but He promised His spirit would be there when we needed Him. Even though it feels like it sometimes, we’re not alone in our journey.

So what is faith? To have faith is to “hope for things which are not seen, which are true” Hebrews 11:1). Each day you act upon things you hope for, even before you see the end result. This is similar to faith. Faith in God is more than a theoretical belief in Him. To have faith in God is to trust Him, to have confidence in Him, and to be willing to act on your belief in Him. It is a principle of action and power. That is the test that we are here to take. The test of our faith. To make choices that reflect upon that faith in Christ. If we had a perfect knowledge of Him then we could not be tried and tested by our faith because a perfect knowledge and faith could not exist together, there is either one or the other. There is a Mormon scripture that discribes this very well

Alma 32: 17-21

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it.

19 And now, how much more cursed is he thatknoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

And that is the reaso why God cannot intervene and prevent the children from starving or take away the temptations of the pedophile. As soon as He does then the whole meaning of our existence will no longer be tenable and we would all be subjected to Satan. It is not that God turns His back on those who are suffering, I am sure that He weeps for them and longs to do something to alliviate their suffering, however, He cannot do that without destroying the entire Plan of Salvation by taking away the essential ingredient of faith.

Now, that is my belief. As I believe that God is a personage of infinite knowledge, I believe, so the entire Plan of Salvation is perfect with every single eventuality being covered. What do you think?
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How does any of this justify child starvation, child rapists, tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanoes, typhoons,the list goes on and on. It just does not.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Because of the issues and accusations that the Devil, through the serpent, leveled against God in the Garden of Eden, and against humans in the Book of Job -- Genesis 3:1-6; Job 2:1-6​

The issues that were raised, especially the issue of sovereignty, which was given credence when Adam chose to disobey... for them to be answered, would require time....enough time to allow man the opportunity to show whether he can rule himself successfully or not, without God's protection and guiding hand.

Hence, life as we have it today...with all its ills and injustice.

But for those who wanted God's influence in their lives, He gave us the Bible, giving us guidelines in how we should act and treat each other. For those who genuinely try to apply these in their lives, He also gives His spirit, the fruitage of which is "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness," etc. (Galatians 5:22-23.) Looking at the world in general, it's easy to see that most aren't applying it, and don't have Jehovah God's spirit.

Jesus certainly had it, and gave us a great "model" to follow! -- 1 Peter 2:21

In addition to that, Jesus' life poured out in our behalf as a ransom (for those who want it), will eventually reconcile all willing creation back to God, and life on this Earth (Isaiah 45:18; Matthew 6:9-10) will be as He intended -- peace between all creatures (Isaiah 11:6-9), and everlasting life for "mankind." -- Revelation 21:3-4

One of the greatest benefits, will be the Resurrection: the bringing back to life of most all humans who have ever lived, even the wicked being given another chance. (John 5:28-29) This will rectify all the wrongs, wherein life was taken! All human family lines and relationships will be restored, if from that point on, they strive to be peaceable. If not, they will be destroyed forever, thrown into the "second death.(Revelation 20:14-15)" No more will wickedness be tolerated!

When all of this is accomplished, those issues will be settled once and for all! Then there will be peace forever! --Psalms 37:10-11,29.
 
ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Hockeycowboy said:
Because of the issues and accusations that the Devil, through the serpent, leveled against God in the Garden of Eden, and against humans in the Book of Job -- Genesis 3:1-6; Job 2:1-6​

The issues that were raised, especially the issue of sovereignty, which was given credence when Adam chose to disobey... for them to be answered, would require time....enough time to allow man the opportunity to show whether he can rule himself successfully or not, without God's protection and guiding hand.

Hence, life as we have it today...with all its ills and injustice.

But for those who wanted God's influence in their lives, He gave us the Bible, giving us guidelines in how we should act and treat each other. For those who genuinely try to apply these in their lives, He also gives His spirit, the fruitage of which is "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness," etc. (Galatians 5:22-23.) Looking at the world in general, it's easy to see that most aren't applying it, and don't have Jehovah God's spirit.

Jesus certainly had it, and gave us a great "model" to follow! -- 1 Peter 2:21

In addition to that, Jesus' life poured out in our behalf as a ransom (for those who want it), will eventually reconcile all willing creation back to God, and life on this Earth (Isaiah 45:18; Matthew 6:9-10) will be as He intended -- peace between all creatures (Isaiah 11:6-9), and everlasting life for "mankind." -- Revelation 21:3-4

One of the greatest benefits, will be the Resurrection: the bringing back to life of most all humans who have ever lived, even the wicked being given another chance. (John 5:28-29) This will rectify all the wrongs, wherein life was taken! All human family lines and relationships will be restored, if from that point on, they strive to be peaceable. If not, they will be destroyed forever, thrown into the "second death.(Revelation 20:14-15)" No more will wickedness be tolerated!

When all of this is accomplished, those issues will be settled once and for all! Then there will be peace forever! --Psalms 37:10-11,29.
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All, 100%, ancient, unsupported hearsay.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Complex issue

In the case of believers God is like a diamond cutter using even suffering in a believer's life to make a believer something of a work of glory. The diamond cutter like language was used in the book of James for this in the Greek.

In Job, it was said a purpose of suffering was 'you deliver the afflicted by their afflictions and open their ears by their suffering' (a paraphrase) God sends uncomfortable situations for a greater purposes

Joni Erickson Tada had a diving accident leaving her a quadriplegic and speaks to the issue
Hope: The Best of Things | Desiring God
Spoiler alert ! She draws heavily form the R rated movie The Shawshank Redemption
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
whirlingmerc said:
Complex issue



In Job, it was said a purpose of suffering was 'you deliver the afflicted by their afflictions and open their ears by their suffering' (a paraphrase) God sends uncomfortable situations for a greater purposes
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a common misconception.....^

God had nothing to prove
neither did His servant Job

it was the devil attempting to prove himself better than the least of God's servants
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I disagree... I think God cares a great deal about us and perhaps that is in part why judgement involves every word we speak and our thoughts and actions.... because God does care

It wasn't the devil calling the shots in Job, it was God. How do I know? look at the first example chapter 1 where the devil came before God and God asked Satan if Satan considered 'my servant Job' knowing what would happen

Additionally more is going on. Job is called God's suffering servant in the beginning and end of the book, and in the darkest deepest part of Job's suffering Job makes sacrifice for sinners, his friends and then God raises Job up.... just like Jesus, the suffering servant who died, interceded for sinners and was raised.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
All, 100%, ancient, unsupported hearsay.
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"Unsupported"? Not at all!

Isaac Newton said: "I study the Bible daily".

(Not just read it....he 'studied' it.)

And his conclusion? "I find more sure marks of the authenticity of the Bible than in any profane history whatever."

Was he lying?

(Note: he didn't approve of the religious tenets of his day, but he did appreciate the Scriptures.)
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Hockeycowboy said:
"Unsupported"? Not at all!

Isaac Newton said: "I study the Bible daily".

(Not just read it....he 'studied' it.)

And his conclusion? "I find more sure marks of the authenticity of the Bible than in any profane history whatever."

Was he lying?

(Note: he didn't approve of the religious tenets of his day, but he did appreciate the Scriptures.)
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. He could have just been mistaken, as humans often are.
 
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