Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[Hockeycowboy]

Not necessarily. He could have just been mistaken, as humans often are.

Isaac Newton wasn't speaking about 'possibilities'.

Authenticity is genuineness: (something) entitled to acceptance or belief because of agreement with known facts or experience; reliable; trustworthy.

Have you 'studied' the Bible? Or are you only repeating what you've heard? I've found this to be the case with most people.

 

[pearl]

It is man who allows much suffering, hunger etc, God allows what man allows. God never promised to take suffering away, he promised to be there with us, to 'be not afraid'. Life is a risk, a roll of the dice.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Isaac Newton wasn't speaking about 'possibilities'.

Authenticity is genuineness: (something) entitled to acceptance or belief because of agreement with known facts or experience; reliable; trustworthy.

Have you 'studied' the Bible? Or are you only repeating what you've heard? I've found this to be the case with most people.

He's one person who lived a couple of hundred years ago. He didn't know anything close to what we know now. Who knows what he actually means by the quote you provided anyway.

I have read the Bible cover to cover. I think you'll find that a lot of atheists are quite familiar with the Bible, oftentimes more so than Christians. Many of us used to be Christian. Speaking for myself, a full reading of it is one of the things that led me away from Christianity.

 

[allfoak]

Suffering is part of the human experience.
We must learn all things and all things must be learned through experience.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Suffering is part of the human experience.
We must learn all things and all things must be learned through experience.

You have essentially said nothing.

 

[allfoak]

You have essentially said nothing.

i figured that would be the response.

There is actually a lot being said.
I will explain.
Suffering is a human experience because God does not suffer, therefore, God cannot get "involved" in human suffering.
And the second part is even better.
Since God is learning all things through us, we must learn all things.
Since all things must be learned through experience and one of the things to learn is suffering then suffering must be experienced.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

i figured that would be the response.

There is actually a lot being said.
I will explain.
Suffering is a human experience because God does not suffer, therefore, God cannot get "involved" in human suffering.
And the second part is even better.
Since God is learning all things through us, we must learn all things.
Since all things must be learned through experience and one of the things to learn is suffering then suffering must be experienced.

"i figured that would be the response."

Sounds like you could have saved us a step then.


So God is not an all power-full, all-knowing being; then why should we suffer for his benefit?

We are getting the raw end of the deal here. It would be like me asking you to put your hand on a hot burner and tell me if it was painful.

What if I no longer want to be a slave for God? Is there a rebellion I can join?

 

[allfoak]

"i figured that would be the response."

Sounds like you could have saved us a step then.


So God is not an all power-full, all-knowing being; then why should we suffer for his benefit?

We are getting the raw end of the deal here. It would be like me asking you to put your hand on a hot burner and tell me if it was painful.

What if I no longer want to be a slave for God? Is there a rebellion I can join?

You are here by choice.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You are here by choice.

And now that I am here how do I break free from God? I want freedom from a slave master that tortures people for personal gain.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Do you really think people want God to step in every time someone picks up a cigarette because it may cause cancer? Do you really think people want God to step in every time someone picks up a bottle of alcohol because they might get drunk and cause an accident? Do you really think people wany God to interfere in their lives? They only want God to step in after they cause a problem and then want God to fix the problem. God allows people to make choices and if those choices cause problems then the people must live with what they caused.

 

[allfoak]

And now that I am here how do I break free from God? I want freedom from a slave master that tortures people for personal gain.

I guess you don't understand, you are here doing this because you chose to do it.
Now you say you want out?
What happened to the deal you made to come here?
And one other thing.
How is it that you think you can separate yourself from the mind of God, in which we live and move and have our being?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I guess you don't understand, you are here doing this because you chose to do it.
Now you say you want out?
What happened to the deal you made to come here?
And one other thing.
How is it that you think you can separate yourself from the mind of God, in which we live and move and have our being?

In our history we call him Alexander the Great. In Persian history they call him Alexander the Destroyer. One person's hero can easily be another person's villain.

"you are here doing this because you chose to do it."

Whatever it was before this is my life now, and I make my own choices. I am not here to suffer for God.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Do you really think people want God to step in every time someone picks up a cigarette because it may cause cancer? Do you really think people want God to step in every time someone picks up a bottle of alcohol because they might get drunk and cause an accident? Do you really think people wany God to interfere in their lives? They only want God to step in after they cause a problem and then want God to fix the problem. God allows people to make choices and if those choices cause problems then the people must live with what they caused.

Hey, I want a godly sugar-daddy. Stop filling God's head up with all this taking responsibility nonsense.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

He's one person who lived a couple of hundred years ago. He didn't know anything close to what we know now. Who knows what he actually means by the quote you provided anyway.

I have read the Bible cover to cover. I think you'll find that a lot of atheists are quite familiar with the Bible, oftentimes more so than Christians. Many of us used to be Christian. Speaking for myself, a full reading of it is one of the things that led me away from Christianity.

I appreciate your friendly reply.

If I may say one thing....I believe you read the Bible while being influenced by mainstream Christian tenets, such as hellfire, the trinity, and such. These teachings are in direct conflict with what the Bible really says! For instance, briefly, Psalms 146:3-4 states when a person dies, their "thoughts perish". Ecclesiastes 9:5 says the dead are "aware of nothing". The Bible is consistent with this idea. If this is true, then how can the dead experience anything? (Either bliss in Heaven, or torment in Hell?) The 'afterlife' happens at a future time, as Jesus indicated....the future tense being used at John 5:28-29. Verified at John 6:44; Acts of the Apostles 24:15; et.al.

Take care.

 

[Muffled]

Do you really think people want God to step in every time someone picks up a cigarette because it may cause cancer? Do you really think people want God to step in every time someone picks up a bottle of alcohol because they might get drunk and cause an accident? Do you really think people wany God to interfere in their lives? They only want God to step in after they cause a problem and then want God to fix the problem. God allows people to make choices and if those choices cause problems then the people must live with what they caused.

I asked God (Jesus) to step in and alter my life for the better but I find He doesn't micro-manage.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Yes, sometimes you have to take responsibility. If you smoke cigarettes and get cancer, do not blame God. You must work to make your life better, don't just sit back and expect God to do everything.

 

[viole]

Because of the issues and accusations that the Devil, through the serpent, leveled against God in the Garden of Eden, and against humans in the Book of Job -- Genesis 3:1-6; Job 2:1-6​

The issues that were raised, especially the issue of sovereignty, which was given credence when Adam chose to disobey... for them to be answered, would require time....enough time to allow man the opportunity to show whether he can rule himself successfully or not, without God's protection and guiding hand.

Hence, life as we have it today...with all its ills and injustice.

But for those who wanted God's influence in their lives, He gave us the Bible, giving us guidelines in how we should act and treat each other. For those who genuinely try to apply these in their lives, He also gives His spirit, the fruitage of which is "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness," etc. (Galatians 5:22-23.) Looking at the world in general, it's easy to see that most aren't applying it, and don't have Jehovah God's spirit.

Jesus certainly had it, and gave us a great "model" to follow! -- 1 Peter 2:21

In addition to that, Jesus' life poured out in our behalf as a ransom (for those who want it), will eventually reconcile all willing creation back to God, and life on this Earth (Isaiah 45:18; Matthew 6:9-10) will be as He intended -- peace between all creatures (Isaiah 11:6-9), and everlasting life for "mankind." -- Revelation 21:3-4

One of the greatest benefits, will be the Resurrection: the bringing back to life of most all humans who have ever lived, even the wicked being given another chance. (John 5:28-29) This will rectify all the wrongs, wherein life was taken! All human family lines and relationships will be restored, if from that point on, they strive to be peaceable. If not, they will be destroyed forever, thrown into the "second death.(Revelation 20:14-15)" No more will wickedness be tolerated!

When all of this is accomplished, those issues will be settled once and for all! Then there will be peace forever! --Psalms 37:10-11,29.

All humans who ever lived?

That could be tricky. I am sure each one of them would like to have his parents resurrected too. By recursion, our resurrected family tree will include beings that look like little mice, at least.

Unless there were really a first couple of humans without parents. Would it be inappropriate if we booh those two silly sods when we meet them?

Ciao

- ciole

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Unless there were really a first couple of humans without parents.

Well, yes, that's what I mean, Adam and Eve.....that's what I believe.

Jesus' sacrifice is called a 'ransom' sacrifice, it redeems us from the imperfections we inherited from Adam, as his progeny. It also provides for the resurrection of those who have died: they get their life back, even the unrighteous ones! Some really wicked ones may be gone forever, thrown in the Lake of Fire (not literal, it simply means 'gone forever')...that's God's decision.

So, yes, we'll eventually be able to trace our lineage back to Adam & Eve, and see just how we fit into this big family! (Sorry, but it's late, and I'm groggy...hope this is making sense! I'll continue more on this tomorrow.)

Would it be inappropriate if we booh those two silly sods when we meet them?

Lol. Actually, they may not be back, I.e. resurrected. Jesus' sacrifice may not cover them, we're not sure.

Take care of yourself, my cousin.

 

[viole]

Well, yes, that's what I mean, Adam and Eve.....that's what I believe.

Ok. I actually have some sympathy for Christians who believe in a literal Bible. At least they do not destroy both the claims of the Bible and the claims of things like evolution by trying to fit square poles into round holes.

Jesus' sacrifice is called a 'ransom' sacrifice, it redeems us from the imperfections we inherited from Adam, as his progeny. It also provides for the resurrection of those who have died: they get their life back, even the unrighteous ones! Some really wicked ones may be gone forever, thrown in the Lake of Fire (not literal, it simply means 'gone forever')...that's God's decision.

I am not sure I would call it a sacrifice, though. Looks more like a short absence.

So, yes, we'll eventually be able to trace our lineage back to Adam & Eve, and see just how we fit into this big family! (Sorry, but it's late, and I'm groggy...hope this is making sense! I'll continue more on this tomorrow.)

I am not holding my breath.

Lol. Actually, they may not be back, I.e. resurrected. Jesus' sacrifice may not cover them, we're not sure.

Take care of yourself, my cousin.

Pity. i would have liked to meet them. Just to check if they have a belly button.

Actually, I don't think they were guilty of anything, since they could not possibly know what was good and evil before eating from the tree that gave them that very knowledge.

For what concerns accountability, they must be considered like moral idiots. At least before they ate that fruit.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Here again, I'm replying late! Oh, well.....

Ok. I actually have some sympathy for Christians who believe in a literal Bible. At least they do not destroy both the claims of the Bible and the claims of things like evolution by trying to fit square poles into round holes

Thank you....I'll take all the sympathy I can get!
Kidding aside, Really, its the only way to understand the need and importance for Jesus' sacrifice.
In addition, The other Bible writers -- Luke, Ezra, Paul, etc. -- understood Adam and Eve were real people.

I am not sure I would call it a sacrifice, though. Looks more like a short absence

Well, here's the thing about death, as I may have pointed out in previous posts.....death is absence of life, non-existence (Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 9:5). So, whether it's for 1000 years or 1 minute, the effect is the same.

Death is the 'payment' for sin, nothing else. (Romans 6:23) And Jesus, being perfect, never would have gotten old and died.
So His human life was really 'given'.
He could have lived forever as a human. Adam & Eve could have, too.

Pity. i would have liked to meet them.

I would too, actually. But ultimately, regarding everyone who ever lived, that's God's decision.

You know, so many people have committed awful atrocities, like Hitler did. But who's to say that it wasn't a chemical imbalance, an enlarged or imperfect hypothalamus....something they couldn't control? At least, for some? Jehovah God knows.

(No such problem with Adam and Eve!)

Think of the implications of resurrecting people long since dead, I.e., billions: for these ones to recognize their loved ones, and to have those same feelings for their family before they themselves died....that indicates a personal interest that God has in each and every one of us, for God to remember such details!

Just to check if they have a belly button

Funny! I've thought of that, myself.

Actually, I don't think they were guilty of anything, since they could not possibly know what was good and evil before eating from the tree that gave them that very knowledge.

They were inexperienced, you could say....but they were inclined to be obedient. They had to force themselves to disobey. Totally opposite of us, being imperfect!

Ciao

Ciao to you too, my cousin!

Maybe we could discuss a related subject: how many, since Adam & Eve, probably have died, and how this Earth could support such a huge population being resurrected?