Why does your background justify your actions?

[porkchop]

After watching this years Celebrity Big Brother here in England, and seeing that nasty piece of work Jade Goody voted out, then appearing on every daytime tv show wallowing in self pity and apologising, then using the way shes been bought up as justification for her behaviour ( she's gonna get help, for those who care), i just thought how often you here that. How someones past justifys there actions.
I think its a load of balloney, personally. What do you think??? Is it just a cop out, or do you really think people dont have the ability to change their behaviour if they have been bought up badly or abused, etc.. Is this "learnt behaviour" just a big excuse, shouldnt we all be held accountable for our own actions, not our parents, or people who hurt us???

 

[michel]

After watching this years Celebrity Big Brother here in England, and seeing that nasty piece of work Jade Goody voted out, then appearing on every daytime tv show wallowing in self pity and apologising, then using the way shes been bought up as justification for her behaviour ( she's gonna get help, for those who care), i just thought how often you here that. How someones past justifys there actions.
I think its a load of balloney, personally. What do you think??? Is it just a cop out, or do you really think people dont have the ability to change their behaviour if they have been bought up badly or abused, etc.. Is this "learnt behaviour" just a big excuse, shouldnt we all be held accountable for our own actions, not our parents, or people who hurt us???

I agree and yet disagree with you. To my way of thinking, there is no "justification" for any bad act (as she did) - but there often is a reason why (burried in the past) as to why she became the type of person who reacted as she did.

Like I always say, when I have behaved badly; "I have no excuse, but I can tell you the reason why" (after so much cognitive therapy that I am expert )

 

[Sunstone]

Our genes, our life experiences, how we were brought up --- things like that have an undeniable influence on us. Even a cursory reading of the research literature will reveal that. That does not mean, however, that we have no responsibility for our actions. For instance: There are things we can do to ameliorate or manage the negative effects of bad childhood experiences.

 

[porkchop]

I agree that our experiences can influence us, but can we not stop things from influencing us?
For example, the school bully who learnt it off her dad, knows how it feels to be bullied, but even though shes been influenced by his behaviour, she has decided to act as him, even though she knows it is wrong, people say 'thats all you know', the way you are bought up, i say common sense and conscience tell you different.

 

[michel]

I agree that our experiences can influence us, but can we not stop things from influencing us?
For example, the school bully who learnt it off her dad, knows how it feels to be bullied, but even though shes been influenced by his behaviour, she has decided to act as him, even though she knows it is wrong, people say 'thats all you know', the way you are bought up, i say common sense and conscience tell you different.

You're right, of course - FOR YOU. Not necessarilly for the bully, though.

So many of our emotions are hard wired into us; it isn't even a case of the awareness of what is happening.

When you have been afraid, could you have controlled the adrenaline surge ? (That the is the Fight of flight response ?) ...I don't think so.

The number of people who suffer panic attackes is becoming greater each day (it's a bi product of the fast pace of life we follow)..the treatment (to stop panic attacks from actually happening) is a very long-winded process.

I have had no end of therapy, but, everytime I go to see the doctor, my stomach muscles go into a spasm - that has been going on for near on 13 years. can I control it ? The short answer is no.

 

[Sunstone]

I agree that our experiences can influence us, but can we not stop things from influencing us?
For example, the school bully who learnt it off her dad, knows how it feels to be bullied, but even though shes been influenced by his behaviour, she has decided to act as him, even though she knows it is wrong, people say 'thats all you know', the way you are bought up, i say common sense and conscience tell you different.

Common sense and conscience vary from person to person. What one person considers to be common sense (or a matter of conscience) is not what another considers to be the same.

I once lived with someone who had Borderline Personality Disorder. During the time I lived with them, I saw time and again their failure to be even marginally decent to their friends, their coworkers, and others around them. I tried all manner of encouraging them to change their ways, but none succeeded. That stumped me until years after I had left them, I read in a science journal of the discovery that people with Borderline Personality Disorder have four areas of their brain which are underdeveloped. That is, they simply don't have a fully functional brain. How do you change a behavior that is, in effect, hardwired into a person?

I should add here that Borderline Personality Disorder is not a condition that one is born with, but a condition that developes after birth as a result of childhood abuse.

 

[Sunstone]

This is a tough, complex subject, Pork Chop. Good thread! Frubals!

 

[lilithu]

I agree and yet disagree with you. To my way of thinking, there is no "justification" for any bad act (as she did) - but there often is a reason why (burried in the past) as to why she became the type of person who reacted as she did.

Like I always say, when I have behaved badly; "I have no excuse, but I can tell you the reason why" (after so much cognitive therapy that I am expert )

I agree with Michel. Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions. But there are things in one's "background" that can mitigate some of the responsibility. And certainly, if I can understand the background that influenced a person to behave the way that he or she did, I have more sympathy.

It doesn't mean that the person shouldn't be held accountable for her actions. This woman, Jade Goody (what an interesting name), was voted off as a result of her actions, fine. She shouldn't be reinstated just because of her explanations. But perhaps people might consider disliking her less.

Otoh, self-pity is rather annoying. Someone has to help her understand that other people have had hard lives too. Otherwise, you're right this is just an excuse for poor behavior.

 

[Moni_Gail]

Many times it's dependent on how resilient you are as a person. Many think their childhood only holds so much sway because they turned out quite different from that influentual person. For example, if you have an alcoholic and abusive father, you grow up quite loving and rarely drink. Now, this is a direct result of your upbringing, you just chose to take the opposing standpoint. Wow, I hope this makes sense. :sarcastic

 

[dawny0826]

After watching this years Celebrity Big Brother here in England, and seeing that nasty piece of work Jade Goody voted out, then appearing on every daytime tv show wallowing in self pity and apologising, then using the way shes been bought up as justification for her behaviour ( she's gonna get help, for those who care), i just thought how often you here that. How someones past justifys there actions.
I think its a load of balloney, personally. What do you think??? Is it just a cop out, or do you really think people dont have the ability to change their behaviour if they have been bought up badly or abused, etc.. Is this "learnt behaviour" just a big excuse, shouldnt we all be held accountable for our own actions, not our parents, or people who hurt us???

People do make legitimate connections between their past and certain negative aspects of their mannerisms and behaviour.

However, in my opinion, this certainly isn't justification for negative behaviour. Unless to young to process/distinguish between right from wrong or truly mentally incapable of processing/distinguishing between right from wrong...I'd say that an indivual is absolutely resonspible for their OWN behaviour and should be held accountable for their actions.

 

[porkchop]

You're right, of course - FOR YOU. Not necessarilly for the bully, though.

So many of our emotions are hard wired into us; it isn't even a case of the awareness of what is happening.

When you have been afraid, could you have controlled the adrenaline surge ? (That the is the Fight of flight response ?) ...I don't think so.

The number of people who suffer panic attackes is becoming greater each day (it's a bi product of the fast pace of life we follow)..the treatment (to stop panic attacks from actually happening) is a very long-winded process.

I have had no end of therapy, but, everytime I go to see the doctor, my stomach muscles go into a spasm - that has been going on for near on 13 years. can I control it ? The short answer is no.

I dont think panic attacks are the same thing im on about, i mean when someone uses the excuse that its what theyve been taught or all they know, for doing something wrong/bad. Panic attacks are not pleasent, i used to suffer with them myself, and im sorry for you, Michel, that you have them, its not much fun.

i get what you are saying, but dont you think that these days, with all the self help books and oprah type peeps on tv and shrinks on every corner that people would know how they are behaving is wrong? Maybe they dont want to change and enjoy behaving that way and use the excuse of their past to justify it????

 

[porkchop]

Common sense and conscience vary from person to person. What one person considers to be common sense (or a matter of conscience) is not what another considers to be the same.

But there tends to be a general rule of 'society' and of course, the law. We all know that some kinds of behaviour, like violence,abuse, are simply not tolerated.

I once lived with someone who had Borderline Personality Disorder. During the time I lived with them, I saw time and again their failure to be even marginally decent to their friends, their coworkers, and others around them. I tried all manner of encouraging them to change their ways, but none succeeded. That stumped me until years after I had left them, I read in a science journal of the discovery that people with Borderline Personality Disorder have four areas of their brain which are underdeveloped. That is, they simply don't have a fully functional brain. How do you change a behavior that is, in effect, hardwired into a person?

I should add here that Borderline Personality Disorder is not a condition that one is born with, but a condition that developes after birth as a result of childhood abuse.[/

Thats a whole different area, as that is an illness; im more on about your everyday kinda person, like this girl off big bro. and people who sexually or mentally abuse people, bullies, paedophiles, people who are justifying their actions by what theyve been taught or had done to them.
Im sorry you went through that, it must have been a very trying and emotional time for you.
Thankyou for the frubals,mister.

 

[evearael]

Why does your background justify your actions?

I don't feel someone's background justifies their actions, but it can explain them. A person is ultimately responsible for their own actions. That said, it often takes time to learn/relearn healthy coping mechanisms and root out the negative ones for handling past trauma and the person will likely stumble along the way. It is important that they ask forgiveness for those they hurt when they stumble. In cases of severe trauma, the person will be struggling with it for the rest of their life; there is no 'cure', there are only different stages of healing. I do feel that we need to have compassion for someone genuinely suffering from their past, but I am adamantly opposed to someone using their past as an excuse to harm others. It should not be tolerated.

 

[Ori]

I don't think someones past can justify their actions, although it does have a profound effect.

 

[standing_alone]

For example, the school bully who learnt it off her dad, knows how it feels to be bullied, but even though shes been influenced by his behaviour, she has decided to act as him, even though she knows it is wrong, people say 'thats all you know', the way you are bought up, i say common sense and conscience tell you different.

While that is a good example, it isn't always the case that the victim of mistreatment in the past knows that the mistreatment is actually mistreatment - that is, by repeatedly being mistreated, it is learned that the behavior is acceptable or right. For example, the parent that abuses her children in order to show love may think that is acceptable because that is what her experience was. She doesn't realize it's wrong because she learned opposite. I hope this makes sense; I'm having trouble finding a way to explain it. I guess I'm just saying that it isn't always obvious to the person with the bad bahavior that his/her behavior is wrong or unacceptable. This doesn't justify the behavior, though, of course.

 

[PureX]

There is much we don't know about how we are pre-programmed to respond to things that happen to us in life, or about how and when we are able to overcome that pre-programming. And I think it's both very unfair and very dangerous for we as people to stand in judgment of others regarding these things, when it truth we know so little. Obviously, anti-social behavior must be discouraged and stopped when it happens. And that may require us to remove people from the society of their fellows, for the sake of everyone's safety. But I think we walk down a very foolish, dangerous, and selfish road if we imagine ourselves to have the right to judge and to punish other people for how they've reacted to their life, and what they've done to others as a result of what was done to them.

The temptation to do so is huge, and I am as guilty of it as anyone. But I am wrong to presume that I have the right or even ability to really know to what extent anyone else was ever capable of controlling their own actions. And I am being a fool when I practice such judgment and condemnation.