Why doesn't God kill unbelievers today?

[ThePainefulTruth]

But what does that prove? Logically speaking, some news is fake but that does not mean all news is fake. Some news is real. We just have to decipher which is which, if we care.

I'm only responding to your claim that modern news is less subject to hearsay and corruption than ancient news. Just look at all the people alive today who've been indoctrinated into the religion of socialism.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe God is being patient but part of the story is that we are near the end when almost all those who have not received Jesus as Lord and Savior will perish.

What do you mean by perish?

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm only responding to your claim that modern news is less subject to hearsay and corruption than ancient news. Just look at all the people alive today who've been indoctrinated into the religion of socialism.

I never said that modern news is less subject to hearsay and corruption than ancient news. It is probably more subject to hearsay and corruption than ancient news.

What I said is that we know what Baha'u'llah wrote His Own scriptures so they are authentic whereas we all know about the Bible is not authentic. Whether the news of Baha'u'llah is fake news or not is up to everyone to determine, if they want to know. Otherwise, they can just assume it is fake because that is easier than looking in the next room.

“If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!” Paris Talks, p. 103

 

[BilliardsBall]

What difference does it make? There are thousands of verses in the Bible completely immoral by today's standards.

I think the Bible has it all wrong. You do not get forgiveness from God. You get absolution from the people you sinned against. I try to aspire to a higher sense of morality.

The difference it makes includes you aren't thinking for yourself and you aren't considering anything in context.

Unfortunately, you would need to prove the Bible is immoral by proving your personal morality is both objective and eternal. Why is today's morality relevant for ancient morality?

PS. How does one get absolution from a person one has murdered? Think about it as you think for yourself.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The Bible and Koran both contain accounts of God killing unbelievers for idolatry, apostasy, and blasphemy. The Bible says God made the earth swallow up some Jews for doubting Moses.

Why does God not today do this- if indeed that god is never-changing?

Why doesn't God make the earth swallow up atheists and other unbelievers? Why doesn't God consume people with a glance?

Is it that God has changed? God has lost his power somewhere? Or this God- the god of monotheism, doesn't exist?

The Qur'an states:

Surat Al-Baqarah 256:

"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing."

Surat Al-Mumtahanah [60:8-9]:

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers."

One of the great mysteries about God from a doctrinal aspect, at least in Islam is that God's knowledge is shadowed from humans. I cannot speak much on Christianity but for Muslims whom I've interacted with, many will say (if you ask them regarding the nature and destination of a "good" unbeliever they will say Allah knows best). No Muslim on this planet can be for certain that God will condemn you or praise you regardless of your status in this life. Even Muhammad the prophet himself stated that in the end, when he is brought back he himself will be questioned on the last day.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

@Nowhere Man people read doctrines like it's a play by play as if it happens concurrently. Things that happened in doctrinal fashioned probably occurred years or hundreds of years a part.

Yes, which is why I specified it could be that the creator god of monotheism doesn't exist.

There is no difference between "creator god" and the Abrahamic one. There is only one, unless you subscribe to the Greek thought of the Demiurge. Other than that Allah, God, Hashem, are all the same deity.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

@buddha Darma

Based on your questioning and your responses as I've read in the thread it seems you're satisfied with your own answers and seem to ask such a question with your own bias. Why even create such a thread if you feel unconsciously the beliefs you hold with the Abrahamic beliefs? I mean I could do the same thing with Buddhism and Hinduism easy and I'm sure you'll retreat to the No True Scotsman fallacy so I mean what is the point of the thread if not done in sincerity?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

There is no difference between "creator god" and the Abrahamic one.

There are numerous deities who can be described as a 'creator god'. You missed Ahura Mazda, Vishnu, Brahman and a whole host of others.

There is only one, unless you subscribe to the Greek thought of the Demiurge. Other than that Allah, God, Hashem, are all the same deity.

How would you know there's only one god? Have you ever looked for more than one?

****ing monotheists telling us the gods we've experience aren't real...

 

[Epic Beard Man]

There are numerous deities who can be described as a 'creator god'. You missed Ahura Mazda, Vishnu, Brahman and a whole host of others.




How would you know there's only one god? Have you ever looked for more than one?

****ing monotheists telling us the gods we've experience aren't real...

First off, watch your mouth boy, I'm not telling you what to believe and quite frankly I don't give a s****. My point is monotheists make no distinction in name or ability. Again unless we are referring to the demiurge Creator god then yes I can see the difference.

Pagan - Greek polytheism with hints of Daoist & Zoroastrian philosophies

(translation): confused

Please if you plan on talking about us "monotheists" best believe I can clown all day on your beliefs as well.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

First off, watch your mouth boy,

You're adorable.

Pagan - Greek polytheism with hints of Daoist & Zoroastrian philosophies

(translation): confused

Says the "non-Muslim".

Please if you plan on talking about us "monotheists" best believe I can clown all day on your beliefs as well.

I'm well aware. Monotheists aren't really known for being tolerant of other beliefs. Not sure why you seem so surprised when this sort of behaviour is returned in kind, really.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You're adorable.




Says the "non-Muslim".




I'm well aware. Monotheists aren't really known for being tolerant of other beliefs. Not sure why you seem so surprised when this sort of behaviour is returned in kind, really.

But I wasn't talking about your beliefs...I'm a student of philosophy and I'm referencing the most known creator god or the demiurge. You chose to make a pathetic attempt at humor. you're the type I embarrass in public when it comes to dark jokes so I wouldn't go there with me. This had nothing to do with talking about your pathetic beliefs. Being non-Muslim and being somewhat versed in the aspects of its theology has nothing to do with confusion Mr. Vegan/Omnivore/Vegetarian-but-will-eat-meat-on-occasion/I hate God-but-I love-worshipping gods/I-like-PS4-but-I-love X-box/ ole confused a**...Next time buy yourself some "make up your damn mind" maybe you'll sound like you can make sense.

BTW what the hell is that picture? Is that a video game or something? I've seen that somewhere. Is that supposed to be you? Or do you worship that picture as well?

 

[Akivah]

The Major Prophets we know about are as follows: Krishna, Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

Thank you for the information, I found it interesting.

Was it an error to list Moses twice or do you have a second Moses?

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you for the information, I found it interesting.

Was it an error to list Moses twice or do you have a second Moses?

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, that was an error. I had in in a Word document I use all the time and I have corrected it now, but I was unable to edit my post. I will have to find out how I can do that as there is no button for that that I can find.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is plenty of food, why do some in positions of power horde for themselves or use commodities for their own greedy agendas?

Because it's God's will, apparently:

Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God. 2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment 3 (for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but for bad). Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will receive its commendation, 4 for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be in fear, for it does not bear the sword in vain. It is God’s servant to administer retribution on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your conscience. 6 For this reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants devoted to governing. 7 Pay everyone what is owed: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because it's God's will, apparently: Romans 13:

The Bible is no longer God's will for this new age of humanity.

InChrist said: I think a more important question is ...why don't people feed whole towns, nations, etc.? God gave stewardship of the earth to humanity. There is plenty of food, why do some in positions of power horde for themselves or use commodities for their own greedy agendas?

The answer is simple. Because mankind is not following God’s will for this age yet, since those in positions of power have not recognized Baha’u’llah yet. The excerpts below are from Tablets that were written to the kings and rulers circa 1870.

“Beware not to deal unjustly with any one that appealeth to you, and entereth beneath your shadow. Walk ye in the fear of God, and be ye of them that lead a godly life. Rest not on your power, your armies, and treasures. Put your whole trust and confidence in God, Who hath created you, and seek ye His help in all your affairs. Succor cometh from Him alone. He succoreth whom He will with the hosts of the heavens and of the earth.

Know ye that the poor are the trust of God in your midst. Watch that ye betray not His trust, that ye deal not unjustly with them and that ye walk not in the ways of the treacherous. Ye will most certainly be called upon to answer for His trust on the day when the Balance of Justice shall be set, the day when unto every one shall be rendered his due, when the doings of all men, be they rich or poor, shall be weighed.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 251

“O ye rulers of the earth! Wherefore have ye clouded the radiance of the Sun, and caused it to cease from shining? Hearken unto the counsel given you by the Pen of the Most High, that haply both ye and the poor may attain unto tranquillity and peace. We beseech God to assist the kings of the earth to establish peace on earth. He, verily, doth what He willeth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 253

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

But I wasn't talking about your beliefs...I'm a student of philosophy and I'm referencing the most known creator god or the demiurge.

You were stating your own beliefs as if they were fact and I challenged you on it. And look at how you react...

You chose to make a pathetic attempt at humor.

No, I didn't.

you're the type I embarrass in public when it comes to dark jokes so I wouldn't go there with me.

I'm honestly not sure if I'm supposed to be impressed or intimidated by this. If this is the idea then, wow, that's actually kinda sad.

This had nothing to do with talking about your pathetic beliefs.

Apparently now it is...

Being non-Muslim and being somewhat versed in the aspects of its theology has nothing to do with confusion

It's not your familiarity with the theology that leads me (and others) to believe you're a Muslim; it's the fact your posts consistently read like they were written by a Muslim:

1. You defend Islam from any and all criticism at every given opportunity;
2. Your attempts at apologetics usually fall into the same tired patterns Muslims use - 'you're taking that verse out of context', 'you don't understand Arabic so you can't criticise', 'you're not a Muslim so you're not allowed an opinion' etc - when attempting to deflect criticism from Islam;
3. You attempt to 'big up' Islam just like a Muslim would do; you claim here that Islam gave the world logic & science which is blatantly false. Logic became a system of thinking in the classical Greek period and science has existed long before that;
4. According to this thread the only reasons you aren't Muslim is because some Muslims are racist and you're not comfy with the concept of Hell. Apart from that you seem to be 99.999999% of the way there;
5. You believe in Allah, his messengers & his angels;
6. You set whether or not a person is Muslim as a standard for whether they can interject a view or opinion on Islamic scripture. Since you give opinions on Islamic scripture quite a bit, this can lead to the inference that you're a Muslim;
7. You react the same way some of the more obnoxious Muslim posters have done on this forum when their claims are challenged.

For being a non-Muslim you are sending out some very mixed signals.

Mr. Vegan/Omnivore/Vegetarian-but-will-eat-meat-on-occasion/I hate God-but-I love-worshipping gods/I-like-PS4-but-I-love X-box/ ole confused a**

I'm going to take this opportunity to segue in an analogy regarding PS4 & Xbox. Monotheists are like the fanboys of one console, ripping on those who have the other as well as those who maybe play a bit of both and some PC games as well. Polytheists are like the people who recognise that both consoles are actually pretty cool so there's no reason not to have both since the list of titles for these platforms does diverge somewhat.

...Next time buy yourself some "make up your damn mind" maybe you'll sound like you can make sense.

The reason you think I've not made up my mind is because you can't stuff my belief system into a neat little box that you can label. If you've ever read about philosophical Daoism you'd understand it's not at all incompatible with any kind of polytheism. If you're really interested in finding out why I believe what I believe then have a read through the first post in this thread.

BTW what the hell is that picture? Is that a video game or something? I've seen that somewhere. Is that supposed to be you? Or do you worship that picture as well?

That's a picture of The Emperor of Mankind (hence the name). He's the main protagonist in the Warhammer 40K universe who is worshipped as a god despite not wanting to be - a parody portrayal of whom I find highly entertaining. For being portrayed as really dull and enigmatic, he's quite an interesting character in terms of his origins and goals for humanity. And no, I don't worship him.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You were stating your own beliefs as if they were fact and I challenged you on it. And look at how you react...




No, I didn't.




I'm honestly not sure if I'm supposed to be impressed or intimidated by this. If this is the idea then, wow, that's actually kinda sad.




Apparently now it is...




It's not your familiarity with the theology that leads me (and others) to believe you're a Muslim; it's the fact your posts consistently read like they were written by a Muslim:

1. You defend Islam from any and all criticism at every given opportunity;
2. Your attempts at apologetics usually fall into the same tired patterns Muslims use - 'you're taking that verse out of context', 'you don't understand Arabic so you can't criticise', 'you're not a Muslim so you're not allowed an opinion' etc - when attempting to deflect criticism from Islam;
3. You attempt to 'big up' Islam just like a Muslim would do; you claim here that Islam gave the world logic & science which is blatantly false. Logic became a system of thinking in the classical Greek period and science has existed long before that;
4. According to this thread the only reasons you aren't Muslim is because some Muslims are racist and you're not comfy with the concept of Hell. Apart from that you seem to be 99.999999% of the way there;
5. You believe in Allah, his messengers & his angels;
6. You set whether or not a person is Muslim as a standard for whether they can interject a view or opinion on Islamic scripture. Since you give opinions on Islamic scripture quite a bit, this can lead to the inference that you're a Muslim;
7. You react the same way some of the more obnoxious Muslim posters have done on this forum when their claims are challenged.

For being a non-Muslim you are sending out some very mixed signals.




I'm going to take this opportunity to segue in an analogy regarding PS4 & Xbox. Monotheists are like the fanboys of one console, ripping on those who have the other as well as those who maybe play a bit of both and some PC games as well. Polytheists are like the people who recognise that both consoles are actually pretty cool so there's no reason not to have both since the list of titles for these platforms does diverge somewhat.




The reason you think I've not made up my mind is because you can't stuff my belief system into a neat little box that you can label. If you've ever read about philosophical Daoism you'd understand it's not at all incompatible with any kind of polytheism. If you're really interested in finding out why I believe what I believe then have a read through the first post in this thread.




That's a picture of The Emperor of Mankind (hence the name). He's the main protagonist in the Warhammer 40K universe who is worshipped as a god despite not wanting to be - a parody portrayal of whom I find highly entertaining. For being portrayed as really dull and enigmatic, he's quite an interesting character in terms of his origins and goals for humanity. And no, I don't worship him.

@Nowhere Man people read doctrines like it's a play by play as if it happens concurrently. Things that happened in doctrinal fashioned probably occurred years or hundreds of years a part.

I said



There is no difference between "creator god" and the Abrahamic one. There is only one, unless you subscribe to the Greek thought of the Demiurge. Other than that Allah, God, Hashem, are all the same deity.

I was implying a minor distinction between the Greek thought of the Demiurge the creator god and the Abrahamic deity which is Allah, Hashem, etc...I never insinuated whatever my personal beliefs are as fact in this situation. I was responding to someone else, not you, you decided to ignorantly chime in, in the following post.


"The reason you think I've not made up my mind is because you can't stuff my belief system into a neat little box that you can label."

I don't care about your beliefs...When I say I don't care I mean I really don't care. I'm not taking an interest to know what you believe. You can believe in the hamburglar as a deity and Ronald McDonald as a prophet. I don't care. I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right.

"It's not your familiarity with the theology that leads me (and others) to believe you're a Muslim; it's the fact your posts consistently read like they were written by a Muslim."

The first post before I started really getting involved in discussion was discussing pre-destination, and the lack of freewill in Islam. I philosophically disagree with Islam on freewill. Oh that's right, you probably missed that! Like I told @LuisDantes I spent two years studying Islam, not only because my family was from the Nation of Islam, but its theology was appealing. I spent two years from writings in undergrad, to post grad. I read more philosophy than theology. I've almost 16 years since 9-11 watching Muslims get bullied because of what others have done. Watched Sikhs get harassed because Americans are too stupid to know the difference between a Sikh's religious custom wearing a turban and an Arab culturally wearing one.

I've watched ignorant atheist chastise people who believe in theology and without respecting their beliefs, they just s**** on them. Like I said, I have no vested interest in getting to know you or your beliefs so take your pompous self-righteous butt somewhere else with that and continue to play warhammer little kid.

You didn't challenge anything actually, and I think you have me mixed up because I have no issue challenging something but in this thread I was responding to another member so challenge? what challenge? you just made an ignorant remark to a post that had nothing to do with you. You're like my ex-girlfriend, you butt in conversations that had nothing to do with you. That is an obnoxious feminine trait you have there.

 

[Rival]

You're like my ex-girlfriend, you butt in conversations that had nothing to do with you. That is an obnoxious feminine trait you have there.

Not cool, bro.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I was implying a minor distinction between the Greek thought of the Demiurge the creator god and the Abrahamic deity which is Allah, Hashem, etc...I never insinuated whatever my personal beliefs are as fact in this situation. I was responding to someone else, not you, you decided to ignorantly chime in, in the following post.

I can admit I jumped the gun on this occasion. It looked for all the world that you were stating your own beliefs as facts but I should have looked back on the context. I apologise.

"The reason you think I've not made up my mind is because you can't stuff my belief system into a neat little box that you can label."

I don't care about your beliefs...When I say I don't care I mean I really don't care. I'm not taking an interest to know what you believe. You can believe in the hamburglar as a deity and Ronald McDonald as a prophet. I don't care. I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right.

For someone who doesn't care you're making a lot of effort to show you don't. Also, if you don't care about my beliefs then I'm certain you'll have no trouble not making any snide remarks in future.

"It's not your familiarity with the theology that leads me (and others) to believe you're a Muslim; it's the fact your posts consistently read like they were written by a Muslim."

The first post before I started really getting involved in discussion was discussing pre-destination, and the lack of freewill in Islam. I philosophically disagree with Islam on freewill. Oh that's right, you probably missed that!

I'm honestly not sure if I saw it or not. I can't remember. My point, since it seems to have utterly passed you by, is that your behaviour in subsequent posts since the one you alluded to above has people understandably thinking you're a Muslim - hence the "Why I'm not a Muslim" thread being necessary in the first place.

Like I said, I have no vested interest in getting to know you or your beliefs

A student who isn't willing to challenge himself or think outside his comfort zone. What a bright future our species has.

so take your pompous self-righteous butt somewhere else with that and continue to play warhammer little kid.

You are honestly precious when you attempt to mock other people for their hobbies - especially when you indulge in stereotyping while trying to pass yourself off as being the mature one.

More of this please; it is funny to me.

You're like my ex-girlfriend, you butt in conversations that had nothing to do with you. That is an obnoxious feminine trait you have there.

Since I don't view femininity as derogatory or something to be looked down on this isn't much of an insult. Also, the gendering of social behaviours is just downright stupid.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Not cool, bro.

Then perhaps you meant to scroll up and see the back and forth this individual has towards me. Again this all started with an assumption that I was imparting my beliefs on him and I was addressing someone else. This site seems to keen in on me but nobody takes time out to address the whole picture....So, no not cool