Why doesn't Judaism proselytize?

[Rainbow Mage]

Is there a time they ever did in the distant past, and a reason they don't now?

 

[David_2010]

I can't answer about the past, but, from what I've read, Jews believe other people have their own paths to God, and that the Jewish religion is for Jews, you can convert to it, so, it's not like interested people are completely shut out, but, it takes hard work and dedication, to prove it's something you truly are meant for/want.

 

[emptybe]

I tried to become jewish and the rabbi told me to be a "righteous gentile" and stopped talking to me....

 

[Rakhel]

Some rabbis don't perform conversions. Most are looking to see if you are worth the time it would take to go through the process with you. Most just want to see if you how determined you are.

 

[Dena]

I tried to become jewish and the rabbi told me to be a "righteous gentile" and stopped talking to me....

Sounds like something an Orthodox Rabbi would say. You should have kept at it.

 

[Zardoz]

... Most just want to see if you how determined you are.

I concur, but what the Rabbi said to you was absolute truth. You don't need to be a Jew to get into the Jewish heaven, you only need to be a good person and follow the Noachide laws (or an equivalent religious moral code). We have no burning need to convert everyone to 'save' their souls from some 'original sin' which will damn them to hellfire if we don't. So we don't proselytize. I'm OK... Your OK....


Besides, it's hard to be a Jew, why make it harder on yourself than you need to?

 

[Onkara]

Why is being Jewish hard, I have seen more than one person say that?
Is heaven the only destination?
Is there a general Q&A thread in Judasim? it would be good to have a place so I don't hijac this thread

 

[Zardoz]

Why is being Jewish hard, I have seen more than one person say that?

It's 24/7/365 and effects virtually every aspect of life. ... and death too for that matter.

Is heaven the only destination?

There is no hell but if at the Final Judgment you're found to have been evil in your life you will simply be... not allowed to continue.

Is there a general Q&A thread in Judasim? it would be good to have a place so I don't hijac this thread

There are some Stickies in the forum. Otherwise feel free to ask.

 

[Flankerl]

Onkara some members of my congregation would ask you "what heaven?".
Judaism is different from (for example) christianity or islam. There is nothing like the heaven in those two religions in judaism. Dont know how to explain it but judaism is more about living your life than knowing where you'd end up after you die.
So basically a jew may believe whatever he/she wants about that what ever may be after the moment he/she dies.

Some may believe in "christian" way of heaven where you see you loved ones again. Others may believe that there simply is nothing, you just cease to exist. Then others may believe that the soul returns to HaShem, the source of which it was born. And some may even believe that they should be punished for their sins and so they'd get some kind of "hell".


What did a wise man say many years ago: "rabbi what happens after we die?" "i dont know i've never been dead before."


The overall destination is to live a good life. Some may have to keep more laws as others but the overall idea is the same. "be fruitful and multiply"

 

[Levite]

Is there a time they ever did in the distant past, and a reason they don't now?

There have been two instances in ancient Jewish history where we imposed conversion on some people: first, during the conquest of the Land of Israel by Joshua and the people (somewhere around 3500-odd years ago), the Canaanites were given the choice of surrender and renounce idolatry or fight and die. The second time was during the Maccabee revolt (c. 150 BCE), certain populations living in the Land of Israel whose identity was tenuous were converted en masse.

However, those were really aberrations, and at least in the second case it proved not to work out so well for us. But in any case, those are pre-Rabbinic times, and for the past 2000 years it has been crystal clear that we do not proselytize. Those few fringe sects that have sprung up over the years that have tried to alter this idea have been vigorously rejected by the main stream, and have withered away.

We do not proselytize because we deem that Torah and the Covenant of Sinai are the ways in which God and the Jewish People relate to one another. We presume that other peoples have their own ways of relating to God, and if God wanted something specific from them, He would tell them, and not us. And also, since God is infinite and possessed of unlimited and varying aspects, it would seem unreasonable to suppose that He might not appear to different peoples in different ways, and ask different things of them, for reasons of His own.

In any case, most Jews today, especially, reject the idea that it is our business to try and tell non-Jews how to live their lives. We certainly don't appreciate it when non-Jews try to convert us to their religions; it doesn't seem particularly reasonable to feel that way, and at the same time try to do the same thing to others. If people decide on their own that they'd like to be Jewish, they are welcome to come and convert. But that's their business: it doesn't become our business until they are Jewish.

Why is being Jewish hard, I have seen more than one person say that?

Well, being Jewish involves commitments to obey the commandments, and to be part of the Jewish people. Sometimes these things are easy: our holidays are wonderful, our music is great, our food is terrific. But sometimes they are less easy: keeping kosher can be challenging, some of the laws of shabbat are hard for people raised in a secular environment to keep, and one must be willing to do a lot of studying and learning. And sometimes the commitments are very difficult: for example, we are prohibited from marrying non-Jews. And unless one is careful to date only Jews, this can sometimes result in a Jew falling in love with a non-Jew who doesn't wish to convert to Judaism. Then the Jew faces the hard reality of the need to put the good of the Jewish people above their own personal desires.

To be a Jew is to be not merely an individual who happens to be Jewish, but a part of the Jewish people, a link in the Jewish tradition: what every Jew does has ramifications for all Jews everywhere, including those still in the future.

We accepted these conditions at Sinai, as part of the eternal covenent we have with God.

This is what it means that we are an am segulah, a people chosen. Most folks mistakenly translate this as "a chosen people" with the idea being that we suppose that we're God's favorites, or something. But what it actually means is that we were the people who were chosen to be offered the covenent, and who chose in return to accept the duties and the privileges of the covenant forever.

The responsibilities might seem hard, but the rewards are also great. (Shabbat is the chiefest of those rewards. A day of total rest, not just of hanging out or of chilling, but of quiet, of peace, of true tranquility, of simple pleasures together, removed from all daily business, workday stress, the burdens of regular life.) We long ago accepted that the duties are well worth the life of being Jewish.

But that also means that we don't expect that non-Jews should follow our commandments, or learn our Torah, or do the things that Jews do. We expect that they have their own ways, which may involve duties, but do not include the "extra" duties of the commandments that we follow.

 

[Onkara]

Zardoz, Flankerl, Levite
Thank you for your answers. The more I read the more I realise what a wrong impression I had and also how rich Judaism is.

 

[xkatz]

Is there a time they ever did in the distant past, and a reason they don't now?

In Judaism, there is no need to save (and convert) people, since most Jews generally do not believe in eternal damnation.

 

[khazaria]

Some Jews actively proselytized in the Middle East during brief periods in history. Known examples include Adiabene in the first century of the common era and Yemen in the centuries that followed. These activities ceased with the rise of Islam.

There were some proselytizing efforts in Europe but many of the converts there appear to have been non-Jewish women who married Jewish men.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Khazaria I think that's because in the majority Jewish view, a non-Jew being a Muslim would be fine. Am I right guys?

 

[Levite]

Khazaria I think that's because in the majority Jewish view, a non-Jew being a Muslim would be fine. Am I right guys?

It seems possible. I haven't studied enough about those communities, though I have seen mention of them.

Khazaria? What say you?

 

[HiddenDjinn]

In my view, a Goy following any religion that holds him to the 7 Noachide Laws would be fine. There's a problem in calling Islam and Xtian faith a Noachide faith for various reasons, but no problem saying they're, in essence, compatible with those laws. The reason I see that we do not proselytize would be a reaction to how we're treated by religions that do. Otherwise, should Xtian or Islamic faiths not have risen, Judaism would likely have been a "missionary faith".

 

[khazaria]

I think another factor, in addition to recognizing Islam's purely monotheistic theology and some similarities with Judaism like its dietary laws and circumcision law, was that Muslims were threatened with death if they converted to another faith.

 

[Levite]

I think another factor, in addition to recognizing Islam's purely monotheistic theology and some similarities with Judaism like its dietary laws and circumcision law, was that Muslims were threatened with death if they converted to another faith.

Yes, that's always a fairly compelling motivation to keep folks from assimilating.

Perhaps just a tad on the heavy-handed side, though....

 

[Ben Masada]

Is there a time they ever did in the distant past, and a reason they don't now?

Judaism used to be a prozelytizing religion par excellence in the First Century, especially by the Nazarenes Jews, followers of Jesus, until Chrisianity got to be adopted by Constantine, the Roman Emperor as the official religion of the Empire. Then, one of the first laws edicted by the Church was against proselitism by the Jews under penalty of death. Some of us did not believe that the Church would have that power still under Rome jurisdiction, Jews started being throwing into the coliseums by the Church. Then, the Rabbis forbade Jews to absolutely proselytize no more.

 

[Songbird]

Judaism used to be a prozelytizing religion par excellence in the First Century, especially by the Nazarenes Jews, followers of Jesus, until Chrisianity got to be adopted by Constantine, the Roman Emperor as the official religion of the Empire. Then, one of the first laws edicted by the Church was against proselitism by the Jews under penalty of death. Some of us did not believe that the Church would have that power still under Rome jurisdiction, Jews started being throwing into the coliseums by the Church. Then, the Rabbis forbade Jews to absolutely proselytize no more.

A conservative Jewish friend told me this is one of the main reasons proselytizing isn't done more. Being threatened with death, imprisonment, or various other terrorist punishments is a fresh memory and still a reality in some parts of the world. It's a shame, to put it mildly. I'd love proselytic Jews in my area. Of course, I've read the other reasons here and understand the lack of a need for it, but if nothing else, forging friendships and understanding is valuable.

Viva la Judaism DIR! (Not a recently active DIR, eh?)